Scary .40S&W round

So, at the shop a fellow employee comes up to me and goes, "Hey, man...this sure as hell doesn't look right to me. Check it out!" He gives me a 180gr .40S&W Speer Gold Dot and...well...check out the photos...

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...ps9c9f4012.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...ps269249e7.jpg

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y27...psea009ee5.jpg


So, I'm pretty much going [Wow2] when I see it. Ask him, "Where the hell did you find this?" His reply? "I extracted it." I blink at him and go, "What do you mean you EXTRACTED it?" He points at his gun, then motions like he just ejected a round from the gun. Damn thing is pushed WAY down (almost 2x the normal depth) into the casing and the rim is chewed to crap.

[panic]

He had this round IN HIS GUN...I was so shocked I never asked him why he even checked the round to begin with. I'm sure he was going to practice his draw on an unloaded fire arm in the back (I always double and triple check to make sure it's unloaded).

I'm just glad he didn't need it. I'm picturing that thing exploding in his young little face.

Jeez, definitely scary! I found one of those in, ironically enough, a box of Speer Gold Dots as well. It was obviously pushed in too far, because when I opened the box of 50, I saw it was sitting low and thought I got gipped and it was just an empty case. Granted it didn't have the chewed up rim, but the bullet was pushed in at least 1/8".

Still have it, but never did anything with it. Might end up pulling the bullet and reloading it to proper specs.

I do know that when loading rounds into the gun from empty, some people will just lock the slide back, drop the round into the chamber, release the slide and insert a full mag. I've read that this can cause the bullet to be pushed in further into the case and cause problems down the road. Although, when I think about it, it doesn't make much sense because a pistol round is held in the chamber by the brass, not the bullet so how could doing it that method cause pressure on the bullet and push it in further. Might have been a different reason for that happening, but hard to say.

Glad your friend didn't get injured with it!

Appears to be an older (pre nickel case) gold dot. I took a half a dozen of those with a trade recently, they were free with the deal, and most had some significant setback, they now sit in a cabinet lined up for show.

Exact reason why I throw away 2 rounds from my carry gun once a month or so... its always the rounds that goes into a chamber every morning before I holster it...

I have a .45 round like that, Newer remington Golden Saber.

It'd been chambered a few times, then one day I ejected for a cleaning, or a range trip and there it was, compressed.

The cause is likely that it's more expensive defensive ammunition, not used due to cost, and on the top of the magazine. Cycle it into the chamber from the top of the mag a few times and voila.
I suppose It also suggests that the rounds aren't crimped very well from the factory.

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Originally Posted by Dr_Fwd

Exact reason why I throw away 2 rounds from my carry gun once a month or so... its always the rounds that goes into a chamber every morning before I holster it...

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Unload your carry gun every night? Hell the only time mine gets unloaded is while at the range, and about once a month to dust off and clean out lint.

Measure the OAL of a new round. Cycle it and measure again. Keep doing that until you become a believer in changing out your carry ammo regularly. I forgetexactly what I saw, but I think I remember 0.005"-0.010" per cycle on Remington Gold Sabers.

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Originally Posted by hurley842002

Unload your carry gun every night? Hell the only time mine gets unloaded is while at the range, and about once a month to dust off and clean out lint.

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Agreed, mine is loaded all the time (with 1 in chamber ready to rock, cause ya know, its a glock) until I go to the range. I probably need to cycle my carry ammo out more than I do, but every time I shoot it, it works flawlessly.

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Originally Posted by Tim K

Measure the OAL of a new round. Cycle it and measure again. Keep doing that until you become a believer in changing out your carry ammo regularly. I forgetexactly what I saw, but I think I remember 0.005"-0.010" per cycle on Remington Gold Sabers.

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I did this after reading stories of that happening, though I only saw it change by about 1-2 thousandths every cycle of the slide (no mag, slide back, drop in chamber and release slide). So the Remington Gold Sabers must have less of a crimp than the Gold Dots. I should do this experiment again when I get home from my work shift, would be interesting to see how the Gold Dots compare to say, Federal .40S&W bulk FMJs.

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Originally Posted by hurley842002

Unload your carry gun every night? Hell the only time mine gets unloaded is while at the range, and about once a month to dust off and clean out lint.

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Oh trust me, I've got at least one loaded gun in every room at my house, including bathrooms and closets. ROFL!
I only unload my carry gun because I'm not removing holster from belt and the gun seats on counter top.

Pull the bullet, size the case with no decapping pin, add powder and re-seat the bullet. If you can't reuse the case, at least you have a bullet out of it, so it's not a total loss.

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Originally Posted by BuffCyclist

I did this after reading stories of that happening, though I only saw it change by about 1-2 thousandths every cycle of the slide (no mag, slide back, drop in chamber and release slide). So the Remington Gold Sabers must have less of a crimp than the Gold Dots. I should do this experiment again when I get home from my work shift, would be interesting to see how the Gold Dots compare to say, Federal .40S&W bulk FMJs.

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I am under the impression that the bullet gets set back from the bullet ramming into the feed ramp, so if you are just dropping the bullet directly into the chamber, then you might not be getting accurate results.
I could be wrong about the feed ramp though. Worth an experiment I think.

Slamming a slide home on a chambered round is hard on the extractor, or so I've been told.

I thought only .357Sig had those horrific setback problems! [panic] [ROFL1]

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Originally Posted by cstone

Pull the bullet, size the case with no decapping pin, add powder and re-seat the bullet. If you can't reuse the case, at least you have a bullet out of it, so it's not a total loss.

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^^^ Either this, or just shoot it. No reason to have a tizzie fit over it. It's no big deal. Any pressure increase in the case will be negligible.

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Originally Posted by Hummer

^^^ Either this, or just shoot it. No reason to have a tizzie fit over it. It's no big deal. Any pressure increase in the case will be negligible.

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You forgot the sarcasm sign...

I think what caused it is he's seen me load my guns with the mag and the slide closes. I jokingly call it "God Loves You Mode", but he appearantly has been practicing getting it right [facepalm]

I've been doing it for years and can get most guns to do it everytime, but I should have told him not to practice repeatedly with the same round... He also was under the impression you had to polish the guide rails...

So you insert the mag so hard that the slide overcomes the slide release?

Or you insert the mag and while still inserting it, release the slide release?

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Originally Posted by CroiDhubh

I think what caused it is he's seen me load my guns with the mag and the slide closes. I jokingly call it "God Loves You Mode", but he appearantly has been practicing getting it right [facepalm]

I've been doing it for years and can get most guns to do it everytime, but I should have told him not to practice repeatedly with the same round... He also was under the impression you had to polish the guide rails...

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You sell snap caps at that store? [Coffee]

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Originally Posted by Dr_Fwd

Exact reason why I throw away 2 rounds from my carry gun once a month or so... its always the rounds that goes into a chamber every morning before I holster it...

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Save them and give them to me.

Food for thought:
https://plus.google.com/+luckygunner/posts/CiVxdHvWjYS

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Originally Posted by BuffCyclist

So you insert the mag so hard that the slide overcomes the slide release?

Or you insert the mag and while still inserting it, release the slide release?

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Uh...it's not a hard insert, it's a finesse insert which disengages the slide lock. Hard to explain and I don't know the physics behind it. If you insert it hard, you knock the rounds out of alignment in the magazine and even cause the round to feed incorrectly. I've seen people trying to do it and they ram it hard, only to screw up the rounds and/or have FTF's.

You don't need to slam it in. You kind of roll the magazine into the well while keeping a lot of palm contact with the base of the magazine. The rear of your palm will gently "bump" the magazine as it seats and the slide will come forward. Now, not every gun will do it, so don't force it. If after two or three tries, then stop trying, as you're either doing it completely wrong or your gun won't do it without a lot of force.

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Originally Posted by brutal

You sell snap caps at that store? [Coffee]

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I know, right!? I told him to do it with those at home and to practice with them

Oh, you're talking about how on an M&P, the slide will release when you punch the magazine in. I'm following you now.

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Originally Posted by CroiDhubh

Uh...it's not a hard insert, it's a finesse insert which disengages the slide lock. Hard to explain and I don't know the physics behind it. If you insert it hard, you knock the rounds out of alignment in the magazine and even cause the round to feed incorrectly. I've seen people trying to do it and they ram it hard, only to screw up the rounds and/or have FTF's.

You don't need to slam it in. You kind of roll the magazine into the well while keeping a lot of palm contact with the base of the magazine. The rear of your palm will gently "bump" the magazine as it seats and the slide will come forward. Now, not every gun will do it, so don't force it. If after two or three tries, then stop trying, as you're either doing it completely wrong or your gun won't do it without a lot of force.






I know, right!? I told him to do it with those at home and to practice with them

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all of the glocks i have shot do that for some reason

I just take rounds like that, put 'em in my inertia bullet puller (hammer-type) and knock 'em a little until the bullet is out just a little too far. Then I'll run 'em through the press to reseat them to the proper depth/OAL, and crimp them. Voila, problem fixed.

And FWIW - I NEVER cycle the same round in and out. In fact, I rarely unload my carry piece anyway, no reason to. If I have to, the round that was chambered goes to the bottom of the mag and a fresh one goes in. I check them for OAL/setback as well, so I can find rounds like this just in case it happened. Setback can happen with only ONE chambering.

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Originally Posted by Irving

Oh, you're talking about how on an M&P, the slide will release when you punch the magazine in. I'm following you now.

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Also my HK, the Glocks I used in the police academy, the Sig Sauers Lemoore PD used to use (don't know if they still do), the Ruger SR40 the fellow employee uses, my fiancee's M&P Shield 9 and my brother's Ruger P91DC (though that last one doesn't do it consistently). Not every gun will do it every time, just some seem to do it more readily than others. Sometimes it's from wear, though, and if your gun does it and you don't believe it should, it's time to get it serviced.

Should never teach oneself to rely on it. Even my M&P40c doesn't do it 100% of the time.

Meh, pull, resize, reload, and for god sake a "Taper crimp" is your friend if done right for semi autos. IMHO.

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Originally Posted by rpm

Food for thought:
https://plus.google.com/+luckygunner/posts/CiVxdHvWjYS

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Interesting read, though it still would make me hesitant to shoot a round that looks like that through my own gun while holding the pistol.

Tossing 1 round that looks like that is no more than $0.50 (perhaps up to $1 in these modern times) and would make me more comfortable than risking the kb. And that's not just in my Glock 23, I would do that in any firearm.

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Originally Posted by Hummer

^^^ Either this, or just shoot it. No reason to have a tizzie fit over it. It's no big deal. Any pressure increase in the case will be negligible.

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That is the worst advise I've read in years.

DO NOT SHOOT THAT ROUND!

Bullet set-back will blow up a gun just as fast as a double charge of powder, especially in 40 S&W as it's loaded to a higher SAAMI chamber pressure than 9mm and 45 ACP.

The bullet gets pushed back into the case from impact with the feed ramp. Chamber a round enough times and I don't care how it was loaded, the bullet will set back into the case. Want to test it? Well, I wrote about it with pics and testing and posted it here years ago...

http://www.ar-15.co/threads/16723-Bu...ghlight=kaboom

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Originally Posted by SA Friday

That is the worst advise I've read in years.

DO NOT SHOOT THAT ROUND!

Bullet set-back will blow up a gun just as fast as a double charge of powder, especially in 40 S&W as it's loaded to a higher SAAMI chamber pressure than 9mm and 45 ACP.

The bullet gets pushed back into the case from impact with the feed ramp. Chamber a round enough times and I don't care how it was loaded, the bullet will set back into the case. Want to test it? Well, I wrote about it with pics and testing and posted it here years ago...

http://www.ar-15.co/threads/16723-Bu...ghlight=kaboom

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Just read the post that you linked to. I'll be checking my carry rounds more carefully for setback. Thanks!