Custom Knives - Worth it?

Never saw the need to spend the money that some custom knives cost, but thought the same thing about 1911s until I bought my first Volkmann and now there is no going back to a production 1911. That the same for custom knives?

By custom, I'm referring specifically to folders from the likes of Chris Reeves, Les George or those available from Wilson Combat. While I don't have a need for a custom folder, my Fox Predator II has been doing well for the past nine years, always appreciated fine craftsmanship.

Curious to hear from folks that have owned custom knives. What makes them worth 5x what a Gerber, Fox, SOG...etc costs?

I have a microtech knife it's not a full on custom but for $ I paid I should have invested in something else. It's cool but it wore off. It's not worth what I paid and I wouldn't buy it all over again.

A true custom, where there is ONE knife like that on earth, not just a pricey folder from CR, will not be one that you will likely ever be able to sell for what you paid for it if you lose interest in it. Your 1911 analogy works fairly well: a true one-off custom build, had better be one you intend to own for life, or it's a losing proposition. Treat it like an NFA buy.

Important distinction. Perhaps semi-custom is a better category. Handcrafted knife that may not be one of a kind. Looking at the blade forums, folks that have purchased this quality of knife describe their rationale as appreciating the craftsmanship, superior fit and finish, ability to pick or help design the knife, durability and ability to maintain an edge.

Similar words used by those that have bought custom/semi-custom 1911s, bolt guns.,.etc.

Any knife + bastard file = custom. [Tooth]

And here I've had customs and never knew it.

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Originally Posted by Irving

Any knife + bastard file = custom. [Tooth]

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Especially if the blade is made from a bastard file....lol

Damn, now you've got me thinking of knives, but I'm not thinking of anything more than the ESEE line.

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Originally Posted by Marine24

And here I've had customs and never knew it.

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And were they worth it?

A sharp piece of steel is a sharp piece of steel.

I like nice knives but I would never spend a ton of money on one.

I'd put one of my $150 knives up against a "custom" piece any day.

Might not be as flashy but will probably do as good (or better) at cutting stuff.

1911's are a different story.

But you already know that.

I've never felt my current knife was lacking and it did what it was designed to do pretty good. Holds an edge well and fits my hand comfortably. Based on comments above, sounds like customs are more about flash and artistry than function. I've seen a few posts on the blade forum of folks that have custom knives that are afraid to damage them with use or lose them, so they keep them locked up and look at them periodically. That part I don't get.

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Originally Posted by Marine24

I've seen a few posts on the blade forum of folks that have custom knives that are afraid to damage them with use or lose them, so they keep them locked up and look at them periodically. That part I don't get.

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A lot of people with firearms like that also, and like you, I don't get it ...unless it's a family heirloom.

A well made custom knife is a great example of craftmanship by a knife maker. I've seen some great examples but for the price I'd rather invest in several good knives that suit my purposes.
My main consideration for a knife are blade material and ability to hold an edge and ease of sharpening. ESEE fits the bill for me.

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Originally Posted by Marine24

I've seen a few posts on the blade forum of folks that have custom knives that are afraid to damage them with use or lose them, so they keep them locked up and look at them periodically. That part I don't get.

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Bladeforums, from what I've seen, is 95% collectors that swap knives back & forth between themselves like baseball cards. The few knives I've sold on there were first greeted with the typical bladeforums questions: are there any scratches on the box, are all the papers included, etc. The knife is assumed to be unused as none of them ever actually use their knives. When you see some of them post photos of their collection of 40 identical unused Sebenza's, you have to wonder what the motivation is...it surely isn't cutting things with knives!

Reminds me of a conversation I had with an avid Smith collector. He had a pristine pre-Model 19 and he looked at me like I was an idiot when I asked how it shot. While I can appreciate the artistry and craftsmanship of a custom pistol or knife, probably better for me to buy a picture book. I can see a Les George Rockeye or FM-1 in my future and always been a fan of the ESEE fixed blade knives, but probably get my membership revoked if collectors saw the things I try to do with my knives.

barbecue knife to show off = semi custom
useful working knife = I'm with Ray

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Originally Posted by ray1970

A sharp piece of steel is a sharp piece of steel.

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but a semi-custom could also be a useful working knife
and a useful working knife could be semi-custom

depends on how you use

If you only plan on collecting, sure. As a someone who uses knives for all kinds of things (even those outside of it's intended use,) I could never see making the investment.

The one time I might splurge would be a custom sold to benefit a charity I am particularly fond of. Not sure what'd I do with it if I actually did make that leap.

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Originally Posted by StagLefty

A well made custom knife is a great example of craftmanship by a knife maker. I've seen some great examples but for the price I'd rather invest in several good knives that suit my purposes.
My main consideration for a knife are blade material and ability to hold an edge and ease of sharpening. ESEE fits the bill for me.

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Aren't these two criteria mutually exclusive?
I read this a lot, and have always been confused by the concept.
What am I missing?

I've gone the custom route with a number of things, ranging from guns (a handful of custom 1911's) to fishing boats for my saltwater pursuits. Custom, and I mean truly "custom" one-off builds, in any field, are costly - usually at least 2-5X what a readily available version of the same thing would cost. If you need a custom, of anything, I think it's best to go that route only because the off-the-shelf version does not accomplish a task you need to accomplish. Simply having something custom made because it looks pretty is the realm of the wealthy or the misguided.

I do not, nor will I ever, consider an Ed Brown/Les Baer/Wilson Combat/Etc. to be a custom 1911 anymore than I consider one of the named model Chris Reeves knives to be custom - they're pretty, but there's nothing 'custom' about them, every single one within a model line is identical. Either of those categories are simply "costly" versions of something every other manufacture makes as well. A "Custom" build, to me, be it a gun/knife/boat/etc. is something where the customer outlines every single part, right down to the brand of fasteners, that will be used in the build.

Is a custom build worth it? -if it accomplishes something that nothing else will, and you need that task accomplished, it's definitely worth it. Otherwise, buy a Spyderco or ESEE and spend the money saved on inflated-price ammo.

I could not see a custom folder. Fixed blade, yes.

Chris Reeve, while having excellent quality and unique pieces, does not qualify as a custom in my book. I really like Sebenzas and would consider them as a high quality production knife.

EESE has been mentioned a few times but I would add Greco, Emerson Grayman and Krein to the list.

What constitutes custom/semi-custom is a much debated topic and hard to find consensus. I've participated in the debate on 1911s and would agree that Wilson, Les Baer and Ed Brown wouldn't be considered customer 1911 pistolsmiths. Luke Volkmann maybe. Same holds true with Chris Reeves when it comes to knives. Folks with more experience than I have may be able to make the case he fits in the semi-custom category. Les George reminds me of Luke Volkmann in that he bridges the gap between semi-custom and custom. He has standard production knives but also crafts custom knives to the customer's specifications.

All this talk about Reeve and EESE has me debating between a Reeve Green Beret and an ESEE Laser Strike. So much for folders.

I have a handmade Ghurka (from India) and a Orinka (Massai Club) that I was given as a gifts. One custom fixed blade as a gift as well. They are cool, and the stories behind them are cooler still.

After that, I guess I am a McDonalds knife kind of guy. I USE my knives. I have EDCs from Buck, Cold Steel, CRKT, Blade-Tech and Spyderco. Hunting knives are pretty much Buck and Gerber. Much above $50 and it better be pretty amazing for me to look at it. I dabbled in knife making for a while and it is not a complicated tool like a 1911, so I actually fail to see the direct comparison I guess. If I want a $200 knife, I will buy a quality blank and then craft it the way I want it...to me, that will make it worth more to me.

More about the "custom" terminology than a comparison of crafting knives or 1911. My reference point is 1911s, so that is where that came from. The discussion, though, is similar.

Knives costing more that $50 is new ground for me. When I paid $79 for my current one, I thought I was really splurging.

Interesting to watch the destruction videos that knifetests has posted. Amazing to see how much abuse the Busse took before breaking. The ESEE did very well too. The Reeve Green Beret, not so much. Tests are extreme and don't reflect how you would typically use a knife, but illustrate the point that just because it costs more doesn't make it better.

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Originally Posted by davsel

Aren't these two criteria mutually exclusive?
I read this a lot, and have always been confused by the concept.
What am I missing?

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Some of the blade shapes I've seen do not look easy to sharpen.

If it makes you happy it's worth it

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Originally Posted by Marine24

Interesting to watch the destruction videos that knifetests has posted. Amazing to see how much abuse the Busse took before breaking. The ESEE did very well too. The Reeve Green Beret, not so much. Tests are extreme and don't reflect how you would typically use a knife, but illustrate the point that just because it costs more doesn't make it better.

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Once upon a time, I bought an ESEE 5, with its 1/4" thick blade as I figured it was going to be super durable (which it surely is!), but having gone to thicker and thicker blades, it became quite clear that I was getting away from what knives are supposed to do well: cut.

The ESEE 5 is the best trial/outdoor knife I have ever bought. I want to buy an Izula but need to sell that microtech to free up funds first.

Here is the input from a knife maker, there are really 2 reasons to buy a truly custom knife, one investment and you have to know what you are doing here.

Second is selection I hate making the same knife one after another, that's why I don't do it. I like to work with the person and find out what he really wants and expect in the knife and make him a one of a kind that they will pass to their grandkids.

If you work with someone who knows what there are doing and take pride in it you will get the best knife you've ever seen. I'm talking fit and finish, it may not work any better than a $19 kmart blue light special but everyone in the deer camp will what to cut something with it.

The trick is finding the maker that really takes pride in his work (and it really helps if he/she isn't trying to feed their family by making knives) so you don't have to pay through the nose for it. If the maker you are working with doesn't spend a good half hour talking to you or 10-15 emails then either they are much better than I ( not hard to do) or you are not getting a true custom but one of his models that he makes every day.

If you are thinking about a custom please pick up a copy of Blade magazine and if you go to amazon or other book store the publishers of blade put together a yearly knives book that is great with 100's of color pic's of custom knives and has the name and info on 100's of makers in the back (i'm not in there) and you can get say Knives 2003 for about $4.00 (http://www.amazon.com/Knives-2003-Wo...ref=pd_sim_b_1) Warning once you buy one year you will want more.

If any one is thinking about getting a custom let me know and I'll post a thread on things you should ask the person you want to make your knife, there are a lot of very simply ?'s that will tell you quickly if they know what they are doing. (I am not trying to sell anyone anything, I just don't want anyone to get burned because there are a few guys out there claiming to be custom makers that don't know what there are doing.
Greg

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Originally Posted by gmerrell

If any one is thinking about getting a custom let me know and I'll post a thread on things you should ask the person you want to make your knife, there are a lot of very simply ?'s that will tell you quickly if they know what they are doing. (I am not trying to sell anyone anything, I just don't want anyone to get burned because there are a few guys out there claiming to be custom makers that don't know what there are doing.
Greg

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Greg: Was hoping you would chime in. I'd be interested in those questions.

Definately a collaboration.
Fit to hand.
Designing and fabricating a custom for a buyer
made for a specific function, to exactly fit their
hand is something to hold close and show off.
IMHO, anything over $500 is pure art, but price is
subjective.
A lot of the older makers, the Brends, Hammonds etc.
produce art and function, demand >$500, but i would be
afraid to use them for fear of damaging them as well.
At what point is it PURELY art?

Well I decided to explore the world of custom knives and see how close I can get to the line that separates function from art. Function is the primary objective, but making it distinctive as well. Most of my folders see pretty lightweight use but have been known to double as a skinning knife when I forget my field kit, so seems like a good place to start.

Here is another example of the craftsmanship. A little too much art for me, but not far off the mark. Damascus steel with mammoth molar scales/handles and comes with a Cape Buffalo pouch.


http://i598.photobucket.com/albums/t...ps9ce7f999.jpg

Brother, Thats a pretty piece. With a knife that that, i'd be afraid to use it. Granted, i'm old and money tight.
Even skinning,...I'd be afraid blood would stain it.

Me too. Too pretty to actually use and definitely in the art category you mentioned. Maybe put a clip on it, replace the mammoth molar with some nice figured wood or burl and simplify the Damascus pattern. Definitely have a nice daily carry.

Sweet[Beer]

Looking for a custome maker?

First off ask them how they test their knives. You don't want to buy a knife from someone who doesn't use their own knives and test them a lot. YOu are looking for some test of edge retention buy cutting and or chopping. Also lateral strength testing of at least the tip if not the length of the blade.

Ask if they do their own heat treating and ask for a little explenation on how it's done. even if they don't do their own they should have an understanding of what's going on. The heat treating is the soul of any cutting tool.

If they forge ask if they forge in a distal taper. The thickness of the spine will gradualy taper from the handle to the tip. This is important because it will distribute any lateral force along the entire blade therefore reducing the chance of breakage. A blade that is the same thickness from handle to tip will consintrate any lateral force at one point which can lead to a break. Having said that you should never use your knife as a pry bar but in some cases you can't avoid it in which case you want your knife to flex giving you an indication that you are overdoing it, not just snap. You can put a distal taper in a stock removal blade also but it's more work and cost the maker in sanding belts.

Also ask if the knife is gaurenteed, and what it covers a good maker knows that his knives will hold up to almost anything and even if you return it because you don't like the feel he should be able to sell it to someone esle.

If they can answer all of these to your satisfaction then you probably have a good maker.