Did/Does the NSA collect firearm records?

Printable View

07-02-2013, 15:01
Hound

Did/Does the NSA collect firearm records?

This is coming out today

http://www.computerworld.com/s/artic...7&pageNumber=2

Quote:

The Patriot Act's business records authority is broad in scope, and can be used to collect information on credit card purchases, pharmacy records, library records, firearm sales records, financial information and other sensitive data, according to the letter.

So... I thought a national registry was illegal??? "Nobody is talking about a national registry!". Unless it is the secret kind... You know.. The one we should really be afraid of!!

I am glad they are asking the questions. I also noticed even Udall is in on this one.

Here are some other articles on it:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/...-surveillance/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/inte...-james-clapper

It is a quick read.
07-02-2013, 15:22
brokenscout

I think we all know the answer
07-02-2013, 15:26
Rooskibar03

The NSA is a data vacuum. It sucks up any & everything to be used when they deem fit.
07-02-2013, 15:33
sellersm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rooskibar03

The NSA is a data vacuum. It sucks up any & everything to be used when they deem fit.

I guess that sucks... (sorry, couldn't resist)
07-02-2013, 15:55
Dave_L

Quote:

Originally Posted by trot

Well, nobody from the NSA has been rooting through my 4473's unless they have little miniature robots that fit through the window seals and don't set of the alarms. Better dig out the tin foil I guess and seal the windows up. Other then that the firearm information isn't available or transmitted anywhere else. Oh well :/

I think it's digging through CC/Debit card sales records at firearms/sporting stores. However, I could be reading it incorrectly. Pay with cash.
07-02-2013, 15:55
Skip

Quote:

Originally Posted by brokenscout

I think we all know the answer

Yup!

The rule of law, the Constitution, and what was left of America is gone.

This will continue until the complaining is replaced with action...
07-02-2013, 15:57
Zundfolge

Quote:

Originally Posted by trot

Well, nobody from the NSA has been rooting through my 4473's unless they have little miniature robots that fit through the window seals and don't set of the alarms. Better dig out the tin foil I guess and seal the windows up. Other then that the firearm information isn't available or transmitted anywhere else. Oh well :/

Specific firearm info (info on 4473 or serial number or even make and model) are probably not available to the NSA, but they do have access to "meta-data" which means they probably have a copy of a credit card transaction or a bank draft (check) record for "X hundred dollars" at "ABC Gun shop" and can put two and two together.

That's why its no consolation when they say crap like "we didn't actually listen to the phone calls, or keep the contents of the emails we snooped" because they can still use the "meta-data" to build a pretty detailed profile of each and every one of us. This will get double-plus fun when they share this info with the IRS who will get to decide if you get that liver transplant or cancer treatment under Obozocare based on your political affiliations.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_L

Pay with cash.

^This ... but even this doesn't always protect you since any cash transaction over $10,000 requires a form to be filed with the IRS. Expect to see that threshold lowered someday.
07-02-2013, 16:04
RonMexico

Quote:

Originally Posted by trot

Well, nobody from the NSA has been rooting through my 4473's unless they have little miniature robots that fit through the window seals and don't set of the alarms. Better dig out the tin foil I guess and seal the windows up. Other then that the firearm information isn't available or transmitted anywhere else. Oh well :/

Maybe not your older paper records but now most stores input the info into CBI's Internet site .
07-02-2013, 16:08
RonMexico

I know sportsmans scans all 4473...... Now if that system or files got intercepted on its way to corporate....there goes all makes/ model and serial numbers
07-02-2013, 16:40
brutal

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonMexico

I know sportsmans scans all 4473...... Now if that system or files got intercepted on its way to corporate....there goes all makes/ model and serial numbers

As does Dick's. Told to me by the employee when I bought a "pre F**k-Dick's" shotgun from them.

Pretty sure Bass Pro also scans EVERYTHING as I have had IT dealings with them in the past that would indicate large amounts of image data being stored.
07-02-2013, 17:19
jhood001

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonMexico

I know sportsmans scans all 4473...... Now if that system or files got intercepted on its way to corporate....there goes all makes/ model and serial numbers

Everything gets sucked up. Everything.
07-02-2013, 18:03
Gman

Quote:

Originally Posted by jhood001

Everything gets sucked up. Everything.

Yep. They're getting data from everywhere for everything on everyone.
07-02-2013, 18:11
blacklabel

They're not putting together a database of firearms sales. They're also not collecting the meta data of the majority phone calls made in this country or warehousing your emails and Internet browsing history.

I for one trust the NSA.
07-02-2013, 18:18
mtnrider

They are not tracking everyones firearms records. People are just getting down right paranoid now. [facepalm]And these Senators are just looking for publicity and want to act like they are on "your" side.
07-02-2013, 18:55
hatidua

Quote:

Originally Posted by blacklabel

They're not putting together a database of firearms sales. They're also not collecting the meta data of the majority phone calls made in this country or warehousing your emails and Internet browsing history.

I for one trust the NSA.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...ps953a7da3.jpg
07-02-2013, 18:57
spongejosh

Quote:

Originally Posted by brutal

As does Dick's. Told to me by the employee when I bought a "pre F**k-Dick's" shotgun from them.

Pretty sure Bass Pro also scans EVERYTHING as I have had IT dealings with them in the past that would indicate large amounts of image data being stored.

The last one I bought at Bass Pro they actually had me fill out the 4473 on a laptop. I didn't touch paper except maybe to sign.
07-02-2013, 19:06
Jim5280

Quote:

Originally Posted by trot

No they don't. Identifying info and is the check for a hangun(s) a rifle(s) or a other(s). That is it.

Isn't this information enough?
07-02-2013, 19:07
Jim5280

Quote:

Originally Posted by trot

No they don't. Identifying info and is the check for a hangun(s) a rifle(s) or a other(s). That is it.

Isn't this information enough? Feds know how many long guns or handguns I've purchased in the last 15 years.
07-02-2013, 19:11
stevelkinevil

The ATF regularly "audits" the shop I work at. Also multiple firearms sales in the same transaction require you fax the 4473 data directly to them. They know what you have, or at the least a good idea. The next step is to criminalize us in one way or another and make the confiscation of said items and your "detention" palatable to the masses of sheeple. Then the real fun begins. (gently folds my tin foil hat and stores it for the next time I need it, which these days seems to be frequently)
07-02-2013, 20:01
lowbeyond

Illegal? Lol. As if the people that work for the government give a shit. Laws are for you not them
07-02-2013, 20:14
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by spongejosh

The last one I bought at Bass Pro they actually had me fill out the 4473 on a laptop. I didn't touch paper except maybe to sign.

YOU ARE FUKD Not only your online info, they now have your fingerprints AND DNA swab from the keyboard.[panic]

Why oh why is everyone tin foiled about this? besides the obvious.

I have more people tell me [ OR THEY USE TO] Only used guns, NO PAPERWORK, cause they "they don't want them to know they have guns" Even though they have a CCW AND Hunting lic.
07-02-2013, 20:36
Kraven251

But Jim what about all those boating accidents... [Beer]
07-02-2013, 20:41
brutal

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim

YOU ARE FUKD Not only your online info, they now have your fingerprints AND DNA swab from the keyboard.[panic]

Why oh why is everyone tin foiled about this? besides the obvious.

I have more people tell me [ OR THEY USE TO] Only used guns, NO PAPERWORK, cause they "they don't want them to know they have guns" Even though they have a CCW AND Hunting lic.

And a CC paper trail as long as the Dead Sea Scrolls...
07-02-2013, 20:44
Jeffrey Lebowski

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim

I have more people tell me [ OR THEY USE TO] Only used guns, NO PAPERWORK, cause they "they don't want them to know they have guns" Even though they have a CCW AND Hunting lic.

That's the one that gets me every time. What are you CCW'ing? Uhhh...nothing? Right.

Edit: I'm with Brokenscout on post #2. That was my very first thought.
07-02-2013, 22:33
TheGrey

What I'd like to know is why suddenly, everyone is horrified about the government 'spying' on them, while for years we've had marketing groups taking note of our purchases, our 'likes' and online interests, as well as search engines such as Google tracking our internet movements. THOSE are the people we should be fearing, because they have a bona fide motivation.

https://research.everestgrp.com/Serv...etIntelligence
07-03-2013, 02:01
KestrelBike

Did/Does the NSA collect firearm records?

Quote:

Originally Posted by spongejosh

The last one I bought at Bass Pro they actually had me fill out the 4473 on a laptop. I didn't touch paper except maybe to sign.

Same here. And the thing signed was their little CYA bass pro thingie. If that crap went to corporate, the NSA got it.
07-03-2013, 02:16
DangerLee_Industries

At least the GOVERNMENT isn't reading our e-mails and listening to our cell conversations secretly...... Oh yeah wait they have already been doing that for years...... Well I'm sure they wouldn't try to track gun sales since that would be illegal as well.....
07-03-2013, 07:02
rockhound

They are tracking anything and everything
07-10-2013, 20:20
mb504

While you're worried about the NSA tracking you, consider three points.

1) it's be stated that NSA has access to Google's data.

2) this site uses a script at http://ajax.googleapis.com for the login box that pops up when you click the "Login" button in the upper right of the page....

3) this site allow loads a script from google on every page load. When scripts/images are loaded from another page, a referrer is sent to by the requesting page. This would mean that google could track every page you clicked on (including this one).