How private transfers now work in Colorado (background checks, FTF transfers, etc)

FFL 07/02 here. There have been a lot of questions about the process for legal, FTF private transfers and background checks in Colorado. I've done my best to pull together the latest info here. (However, I am not a lawyer.)

In January 2013, President Obama issued an executive order to the ATF, directing them to publish a letter to FFLs providing guidance on how to run background checks for private sellers. The wording of this document implied that guns would immediately be entered into the FFL bound books and would therefore require a background check on the SELLER if the buyer were to back out. While this is now outdated, many FFLs are still using this guidance in determining how they will handle private transfers.

Link: http://www.atf.gov/files/regulations...ure-2013-1.pdf

ATF has since updated and corrected this information, releasing updated instructions to FFLs. It is now clear that, as long as a seller does not "relinquish" the firearm, they can leave with the gun at any point, without performing a background check.

A 4473 (background check) is required for all transfers, and logging in/out of FFL books is still required before any FTF transfer can proceed. However, the BGC can happen prior to the transfer, and if the buyer fails, the seller can walk out. Note the $10 Colorado charges still gets charged to the FFL regardless, and you can bet your FFL is going to want their service fee, regardless of pass/fail, since they are taking the time.

Also, keep in mind the $10 you pay to CBI is not to the ATF. Colorado requires the $10 fee to pay for its own internal check, because "it's better" than the free federal NICS check, I guess.

For your viewing "pleasure," the updated guidelines:

https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/fi...rough_ffls.pdf

Short version:
1) Buyer fills out 4473
2) FFL checks and records buyer ID, marks handgun/long gun/other (no SN# yet), and runs the BGC. CBI charges $10 at this point
3) If pass, FFL takes gun & confirms SN, enters gun into books, writes the SN# on the 4473, and logs the book out to buyer. Buyer/seller leave happy.
4) If fail, seller takes the gun and leaves. FFL did not take possession. FFL does not enter the gun into the books. 4473 gets filed (without SN/gun info).
5) If the seller ever gives "exclusive possession" to the FFL (see linked discussion threads on what this means), then seller has to pass a BCG to get their gun back. Seller still owns it, just can't take possession. If seller fails BGC, you'll have to work something out with the FFL (likely consignment, or find another buyer).

So it could be worse. Could be a LOT better though.
Be nice to your FFL if you found a good one. This stuff is as much BS for us as it is for you. Also, keep in mind not every FFL does it exactly this way. You can certainly direct them to the linked doc, but don't be a jerk about it.

Brian
Broadsword Arms

Useful threads/links:

CO House Bill 13-1229: (Universal Background Checks)
http://www.leg.state.co.us/clics/cli...e=1229_enr.pdf

10+ page discussion here. Among other things, discusses what it means to relinquish the firearm to the FFL, and when the seller might have to have a BGC run on them.
http://www.ar-15.co/threads/109009-B...ks-and-trading

Circuits posted this on the other forum. Thought it was worth a copy/paste here:
- - - - -

This poorly-written turd of a law known previously as HB 13-1229 and now known as CRS 18-12-112 specifically exempts antiques and curios and relics from the private-party background check requirement. It does not require the transferror or transferee to hold a C&R license for the exemption.

CRS 18-12-112:
(6) THE PROVISIONS OF THIS SECTION DO NOT APPY TO:
(a) A TRANSFER OF AN ANTIQUE FIREARM, AS DEFINED IN 18 U.S.C. SEC 921(a)(16), AS AMENDED, OR A CURIO OR RELIC, AS DEFINED IN 27 CFR 478.11, AS AMENDED;

27 CFR 478.11:
Curios or relics. Firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:
(a) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;
(b) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
(c) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector's items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.

So for any firearm 50 years old or older, or on the C&R list can still be bought and sold freely, privately, just like before 7/1/13!

Do you know if a trade is treated as a purchase and sale under the law? If so, are both parties subject to BGC?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cpapastr

Do you know if a trade is treated as a purchase and sale under the law? If so, are both parties subject to BGC?

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Purchase/sale/trade = transfer.
To answer your question, yes a BGC is required.

Thank you!

So question: Because private transfers go through FFL's does this mean someone under 21 but older than 18 cannot do a private transfer for a handgun?

Correct

Well it looks like im going to be waiting a while. Guess I should order a CMP garand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Doolsmack_Bud

So question: Because private transfers go through FFL's does this mean someone under 21 but older than 18 cannot do a private transfer for a handgun?

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"J" gave the correct answer to your question.

But if your goal is to own a handgun while >= 18 <21 years old, there is a legal way ("J" please jump in and correct me when I might stray a bit )

It is unlawful for an FFL to sell you a handgun, but is it lawful for you to own/posses one.

Prior to CRS 18-12-112, someone >= 18 <21 years old could:
i) Buy one via in-state Private transfer (because there were no federal or state bars to a NON-FFLs conducting the sale, and private sales were not restricted by the state)
or
ii) Have someone give you a handgun

After CRS 18-12-112 (i) is no longer an option for modern handguns, as all transfers must go through an FFL but (ii), although restricted, is still an option, and private transfers of Antique Handguns are permitted by the state.

One clause in 18-12-112 says

Quote:

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(6) The provisions of this section [CRS 18-12-112] do not apply to:
(a) A transfer of an antique firearm, as defined in 18 U.S.C. sec. 921(a) (16), as amended, or a curio or relic, as defined in 27 CFR 478.11, as amended;
(b) A transfer that is a bona fide gift or loan between immediate family members, which are limited to spouses, parents, children, siblings, grandparents, grandchildren, nieces, nephews, first cousins, aunts, and uncles;
(c) A transfer that occurs by operation of law or because of the death of a person for whom the prospective transferor is an executor or administrator of an estate or a trustee of a trust created in a will;

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So if one of the aforementioned relatives decided to GIVE you a handgun or died and WILLED you a handgun, you'd be legal to own/posses it.

Please note that giving a relative money to go BUY A HANDGUN FOR YOU is illegal, and known as a 'straw purchase'. There was a guy recently trying to use his LEO discount to buy a pistol for his uncle, was caught, and convicted of this (there is more to the story, but the facts here apply).

Another option is a C&R handgun, as C&R items are exempt from BGC under CRS 18-12-112 (see (a) above) and would commence like a private transfer did BEFORE the new law, as an FFL is still prohibited to sell a handgun of any type to you because of your age.
EX: M1911A1 pistol at least 50 years old.

Another issue for you is getting ammo.
Federal law prohibits handgun ammo to be sold to anyone under 21 by FFLs ...same as the handgun sale policy.
Federal law prohibits ANY ammo to be sold to anyone under 18 by ANYONE.
Federal law does not prohibit the sale of handgun ammo to >=18<21 by non-FFLs...but sometimes store policy does, or the fact the the store is an FFL.
To the best of my knowledge, you can have someone (except an FFL) buy ammo FOR you, legally. ("J", any comments here ?)

Go to Walmart and try to buy some .22LR (if you can find some...another issue , though).
The clerk will ask you "Is this for a Rifle or Pistol"?
If you answer "Pistol" you leave with NO ammo.
If you answer "Rifle" you show your ID, pay the money , and go home with a box of ammo.

I don't know what comes up on the register if you ask for .357 ammo.
If it is still "Rifle or Pistol" and the clerk is not knowledgeable, you can probably leave Walmart with ammo if you answer "Rifle"
...but I don't know if by lying whether you have committed a crime or not. (Again, "J"...a little help here, please ?)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by james_bond_007

"J" gave the correct answer to your question.


Go to Walmart and try to buy some .22LR (if you can find some...another issue , though).
The clerk will ask you "Is this for a Rifle or Pistol"?
If you answer "Pistol" you leave with NO ammo.
If you answer "Rifle" you show your ID, pay the money , and go home with a box of ammo.

I don't know what comes up on the register if you ask for .357 ammo.
If it is still "Rifle of Pistol" and the clerk is not knowledgeable, you can probably leave Walmart with ammo if you answer "Rifle"
...but I don't know if by lying whether you have committed a crime or not. (Again, "J"...a little help here, please ?)

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There are a few companies that make 38/357, 45 AND 9mm carbines, lever and bolt action long guns. All you do is tell them it's for a long gun / rifle IF asked. Nothing more or less. If the clerk will not sell it, ask for manager or walk away, locate another store.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo

There are a few companies that make 38/357, 45 AND 9mm carbines, lever and bolt action long guns. All you do is tell them it's for a long gun / rifle IF asked. Nothing more or less. If the clerk will not sell it, ask for manager or walk away, locate another store.

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If you LIE and say it is for a rifle, and you intend to use it for a handgun, has a law been broken? If so, which one ? (Not being sarcastic...I'd just like to know the answer and why)

The above was meant to be an 'example' of asking for a handgun-only ammo.

Let me correct the example, to make it easier for all to understand the intended point...

Quote:

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I don't know what comes up on the register if you ask for <insert your favorite handgun-only caliber here> ammo.
If it is still "Rifle or Pistol" and the clerk is not knowledgeable, you can probably leave Walmart (or your seller of choice) with ammo if you answer "Rifle" and you actually intend to use it for a handgun.
I have no idea if the stores have coded the register question to the level of detail needed to distinguish a handgun-only caliber of ammo...
...but I also don't know if by intentionally lying whether you have committed a crime or not.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by james_bond_007

If you LIE and say it is for a rifle, and you intend to use it for a handgun, has a law been broken? If so, which one ? (Not being sarcastic...I'd just like to know the answer and why)

The above was meant to be an 'example' of asking for a handgun-only ammo.

Let me correct the example, to make it easier for all to understand the intended point...

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Sorry not able to answer original question. I'd equate your question to that of the masgazine law. One purchased in wyo X mags. The LE who chooses to look at your mags, has no clue where or when they were purchased. What does he / she do, besides walk away?

Question for you. How does / will anyone know what the end use of said ammo will be? Our daughter would buy ammo for our guns if she was where ammo was sold. The one time she was asked what the ammo was used in , she said rifle. That was it, paid for and left store.
I think (key word) you are over thinking the whole deal. A SMART shooter who is under X age should be accompanied by someone over 18 -21 when shooting a firearm, most LE's do not realize is legal to be in possession of. .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by james_bond_007

If you LIE and say it is for a rifle, and you intend to use it for a handgun, has a law been broken? If so, which one ? (Not being sarcastic...I'd just like to know the answer and why)

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Best answer I found on this was from the ATF website (REF: Here)

Quote:

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Q: May a licensee sell interchangeable ammunition such as .22 cal. rimfire to a person less than 21 years old?

Yes, provided the buyer is 18 years of age or older, and the dealer is satisfied that it is for use in a rifle. If the ammunition is intended for use in a handgun, the 21-year-old minimum age requirement is applicable.
[18 U.S.C. 922(b)(1), 27 CFR 478.99(b)]

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>>...and the dealer is satisfied that it is for use in a rifle.

Reality check: And because there's no definition on how to do that, it opens the dealer up to a suit if it was used in a handgun for illegal purposes. Result: Many dealers won't sell to anyone under 21...

I hate laws written like that (read the person's mind and act accordingly).

O2