NAGR spends more than every gun group combined on lobbying

http://www.publicintegrity.org/2013/...uence-spending

Pro-gun group dramatically ups influence spending

Key opponents of gun control and proponents of immigration reform invested unprecedented amounts lobbying Congress this spring, bucking a downward trend among many of the nation’s largest companies and nonprofits,newly released records show.


The Virginia-based National Association for Gun Rights spent more than $3 million from April through June to advocate against dozens of firearm-related bills and amendments. That’s nearly four times the second-quarter lobbying expenditures of the better-known National Rifle Association, which itself spent a near-record $840,000 during the year’s second quarter....

membership down?

Not sure I understand your question.

Are you asking if NAGR's membership numbers are down? No, we have been growing for 5 years straight.

He's saying that because the only time you show up around here is to ask for more money..... Which, by the way, you won't be getting from me anymore... I'm stick of your damn emails...

Can somebody please, please, please start a new state 2A group. I am so tired of RMGO. I want to give somebody my money, but it will not be them.

I am a new member to this site but have been viewing for sometime and there appears to be a dislike for RMGO here. I am just curious about the reasons Can some folks share?

Search the ops posts and read... You'll understand


Sent by a free-range electronic weasel, with no sense of personal space.

I did a quick search, it seems the biggest complaint is the continuous asking for money which every organizations does. It's how they finance their activities. I probably get 2-3 mailings from the USO every month. I donate when I can. It seems to me donating to RMGO is worth it. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by BCMEAG

I did a quick search, it seems the biggest complaint is the continuous asking for money which every organizations does. It's how they finance their activities. I probably get 2-3 mailings from the USO every month. I donate when I can. It seems to me donating to RMGO is worth it. Thanks.

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Wait till you grt 5-10 emails a day from them.

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

I get the emails, I have been a member for 4-5 years. I read them and donate if I think it is worthwhile and delete. I get lots of mailings from the NRA as well, donate when I can and throw the others away. Seems like a pretty easy task in order to support those who are sticking up for gun owners. To each their own.

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Originally Posted by BCMEAG

I get the emails, I have been a member for 4-5 years. I read them and donate if I think it is worthwhile and delete. I get lots of mailings from the NRA as well, donate when I can and throw the others away. Seems like a pretty easy task in order to support those who are sticking up for gun owners. To each their own.

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If you've been a rmgo member for a few years. Why concern yourself now with other opinions? If you were not happy with them you would have not renewed your membership, again, and again.

I don't believe, in fact I know I didn't say I was unhappy with them in previous posts. I was just trying to get some takes here from members here about why RMGO appears to be disliked by some people on this board. So far I have I have gotten they send a lot of emails. I guess I was just trying to have a conversation about something I have been curious about.

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Originally Posted by BCMEAG

I am a new member to this site but have been viewing for sometime and there appears to be a dislike for RMGO here. I am just curious about the reasons Can some folks share?

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Dudley only comes on here when he needs money. For someone who considers them self an "instructor" with his other group and such a gun rights advocate, he doesn't contribute shit here. I'll leave my personal feelings about Dudley's BS aside for another conversation...

Post above, I can understand that frustration.

I think the frustration of most with RMGO/Dudley is tied to the tendency to attack the tactics of the NRA, and work counter to their initiatives, rather than join forces with them. Granted, I don't always agree with the NRA's stance on every issue, and RMGO's "no compromise" approach has a lot of appeal. United we stand, divided, we fall.

Yep, that was a turn off to me as well when I first joined RMGO and made me take a wait and see approach as well. Why are we bickering when we are on the same side? I think in the last couple of years the NRA and RMGO are closer than they've been in the past. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems the NRA is taking a tougher stance with less compromising than in the past. Unfortunately for us gun owners these gun groups are in competition for our memberships and dollars sometimes at the detriment of us gun owners.

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Originally Posted by BCMEAG

Why are we bickering when we are on the same side?

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That's a question you should ask RMGO.

That's the problem when you have two entities that think two different roads of travel are best. I am starting to believe the no compromise position of RMGO (NAGR) is best being that there is no compromise with the 2A. I was a hard core off road dirt biker for years and we continuously compromised with the enviros; we gave up trails and never got anything in return.

However much of that 3 million was spent, fighting to keep from Kalifornicating Colorado's gun laws, didn't help.

And when we were trying to fight it, rallying at the capitol, you were asked if you would be there.

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Originally Posted by RMGOdirector

No, I won't. I'll be on an airplane, heading to D.C..... again.

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Speaks volumes, doesn't it?

Yep, he probably should have been here, but it probably wouldn't have helped as you are not going to change liberal minds; they hate guns. I think Mr. Brown is correct in that the best action is at election time to get officials elected that are pro gun. Once your adversaries have won elections there is not much you can do as they have their agenda. Plus, from my brief encounters with Joe Neville he seems pretty competent.

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Originally Posted by BCMEAG

Yep, that was a turn off to me as well when I first joined RMGO and made me take a wait and see approach as well. Why are we bickering when we are on the same side? I think in the last couple of years the NRA and RMGO are closer than they've been in the past. Maybe I am wrong, but it seems the NRA is taking a tougher stance with less compromising than in the past. Unfortunately for us gun owners these gun groups are in competition for our memberships and dollars sometimes at the detriment of us gun owners.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by BCMEAG

That's the problem when you have two entities that think two different roads of travel are best. I am starting to believe the no compromise position of RMGO (NAGR) is best being that there is no compromise with the 2A. I was a hard core off road dirt biker for years and we continuously compromised with the enviros; we gave up trails and never got anything in return.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by BCMEAG

Yep, he probably should have been here, but it probably wouldn't have helped as you are not going to change liberal minds; they hate guns. I think Mr. Brown is correct in that the best action is at election time to get officials elected that are pro gun. Once your adversaries have won elections there is not much you can do as they have their agenda. Plus, from my brief encounters with Joe Neville he seems pretty competent.

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Honestly aside from your "curiosity" regarding issues with rmgo, you seem to be making excuses for them, rather than address your original ??'s

Your last post contradicts your second reply. Here's the deal. While Dudley's heart use to be in the right place and had the best interest of CO gun owners. He has turned in to a divisive bomb thrower. IF YOU SEARCH AS MENTIONED BEFORE there are a few post regarding Dudley and me asking questions. Never replied / addressed any of my or other board members questions.
IF you're not willing to step up to the plate on of all places a Gun Forum, you sure as hell don't have my support OR money.

This thread verifies my stance.approximately 7 hours ago RMGO / The dudley starts a thread regarding RMGO / NAGR . Criticism is leveled towards him and not a peep to counter / justify RMGO's position, reason for posting. The only one to have his back is suspiciously enough a new board member with 9 post, 8 of them in this thread alone.
RMGO Shill or just a head in the clouds disciple?

I'll do a more thorough search I guess and see what I can find. As far as the contradiction, I don't follow. As far as the last paragraph, I don't know what to say to that.

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Originally Posted by BCMEAG

I'll do a more thorough search I guess and see what I can find. As far as the contradiction, I don't follow. As far as the last paragraph, I don't know what to say to that.

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Maybe you can tell good ol mr brown to step his shit up.

Sent from my teepee using smoke signals.

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Originally Posted by BCMEAG

I'll do a more thorough search I guess and see what I can find. As far as the contradiction, I don't follow. As far as the last paragraph, I don't know what to say to that.

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I am starting to believe the no compromise position of RMGO (NAGR) is best

Yep, he probably should have been here, but it probably wouldn't have helped

Fairly self explanatory. IF. KEY WORD IF RMGO was a true NO COMPROMISE .org. He would have rescheduled his "Lobbyist" duties and stood up . AFTER ALL, NO COMPROMISE, MEANS JUST THAT NO COMPROMISE.

EVERYONE here knows had the NRA used the I have to be in DC excuse RMGO would have taken full page ad's out in every gun rag, condemning them for shirking their duties at a critical time.

UM YEAH, UMMM. Anyone see my red stapler?

You know, any organization that fights for our 2A rights has my respect. I may not always agree with their tactics and constant fund raising but I am glad they are there.

So what's your solution? You obviously have very strong thoughts on the matter which I respect. What if this website started a 2A organization in the state of Colorado? The website has what, 6,000-7,000 members already?

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Originally Posted by BPTactical

You know, any organization that fights for our 2A rights has my respect. I may not always agree with their tactics and constant fund raising but I am glad they are there.

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+1

I wish that RMGO would just STOP the comparison baiting to other 2A organizations. The bottom line, for me, is that I am supportive of ANY and ALL organizations that work to defend our 2A rights. The one-upmanship within those ranks does NOTHING to encourage me to support the speaker - except to wonder if they could not be MORE effective if they would simply focus ALL their attention on 2A defense instead of the feigned in-fighting.

FWIW

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Originally Posted by RMGOdirector

The Virginia-based National Association for Gun Rights spent more than $3 million from April through June to advocate against dozens of firearm-related bills and amendments. That’s nearly four times the second-quarter lobbying expenditures of the better-known National Rifle Association, which itself spent a near-record $840,000 during the year’s second quarter....

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Why only report the second quarter? What's the point of the second quarter when so many of the legislative sessions are wrapping up? The time to spend money against those bills were the two quarters before then. Maybe that's why $840K is a near record for the NRA in the second quarter.

I won't ding RMGO because legislators I respect have said they do good work but Dudley turned me off from donating to RMGO or NAGR with his virulent anti-NRA diatribes, lies about Jane Norton (it's fine that he preferred Ken Buck but not fine that he equated her with Sarah Brady and called her an anti-gunner) and rude responses. Norton may not have been perfect to a lot of conservatives but she was no Sarah Brady despite what Dudley said and she would have beat Bennet handily by pulling swing votes that Buck didn't get. Good for those who donate to RMGO because they feel it's serving their interests, I'm just not one of them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BCMEAG

So what's your solution? You obviously have very strong thoughts on the matter which I respect. What if this website started a 2A organization in the state of Colorado? The website has what, 6,000-7,000 members already?

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Better tactics.
Sure, fundraise. But your appearances before legislature/public need to be very well thought out and precisely planned.
Pissing matches with legislators in the capitol or poorly planned events will not help matters at all.
The event last week is a perfect example. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a pro 2A event on the anniversary of a mass shooting incident WILL be spun in a negative light, especially when Bloomberg dolts are involved.

We are not fighting stupid people here. Ignorant, arrogant, ill informed and less than truthful yes, but not stupid. They know exactly how to spin the media in their favor and how to make the pro 2A organizations appear minimalist. Don't forget, after BHO and crew saw their anti agenda go down in flames a couple months ago he vowed to "go in full campaign mode" to push his agenda.
That was exactly what Bloomies Bus Tour was all about. And we are going to see more of it.

We need to fight the smart, logical fight and stick with pure facts.
Let the loony lefties be the emotional drama mamas.

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Originally Posted by BPTactical

Better tactics.
Sure, fundraise. But your appearances before legislature/public need to be very well thought out and precisely planned.
Pissing matches with legislators in the capitol or poorly planned events will not help matters at all.
The event last week is a perfect example. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that a pro 2A event on the anniversary of a mass shooting incident WILL be spun in a negative light, especially when Bloomberg dolts are involved.

We are not fighting stupid people here. Ignorant, arrogant, ill informed and less than truthful yes, but not stupid. They know exactly how to spin the media in their favor and how to make the pro 2A organizations appear minimalist. Don't forget, after BHO and crew saw their anti agenda go down in flames a couple months ago he vowed to "go in full campaign mode" to push his agenda.
That was exactly what Bloomies Bus Tour was all about. And we are going to see more of it.

We need to fight the smart, logical fight and stick with pure facts.
Let the loony lefties be the emotional drama mamas.

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Well said Bert. Dudley, you paying attention?

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

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Originally Posted by RMGOdirector

http://www.publicintegrity.org/2013/...uence-spending

Pro-gun group dramatically ups influence spending

Key opponents of gun control and proponents of immigration reform invested unprecedented amounts lobbying Congress this spring, bucking a downward trend among many of the nation’s largest companies and nonprofits,newly released records show.


The Virginia-based National Association for Gun Rights spent more than $3 million from April through June to advocate against dozens of firearm-related bills and amendments. That’s nearly four times the second-quarter lobbying expenditures of the better-known National Rifle Association, which itself spent a near-record $840,000 during the year’s second quarter....

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Not sure if this is just quoted from an article or authored by Dudley Brown. Either way, it seems to me anyone reporting on this should know that the NRA doesn't lobby anyone. They can't.

The NRA/ILA (Institute for Legislative Action) is the lobbying arm of the NRA. Yes, it's a technicality but an important one, especially to those who are uninformed. It seems, once again, Dudley is using a divide and conquer approach in an attempt to bad-mouth the NRA.

I, too, tend to support pretty much ANY pro-gun group. But I'm also sick of Brown's constant bashing of the NRA...even when he means the NRA/ILA. RMGO no longer gets my support for this very reason.

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Originally Posted by buffalobo

Well said Bert. Dudley, you paying attention?

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I think the more appropriate question is, "Dudley, do you care?" And I think we already know the answer to that.

I've donated to NRA, NRA/ILA, RMGO, NAGR and the Morse recall effort over the last year and only RMGO/NAGR didn't send a real thank you email. All the others sent at least an email that just said thank you and how my donation was going to be used, and NRA/ILA sent me a mini multitool even though I checked the box for no gift. Dudley's organizations sent me an email that said thank you in the first paragraph and the next paragraph of the same email was asking for more money. At least give it a week or so after a donation before you start begging again. I know it was only $50, but it was all I could do at the time. Never got the promised PMAG from RMGO either.

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Originally Posted by JM Ver. 2.0

Wait till you get 5-10 emails a day from them.

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Get serious: You don't get 5-10 emails a day from RMGO. Nor NAGR.

During a HOT fight (like this year's Colorado legislature) we'll send one per day for a week, to keep you updated. But in a normal week, RMGO sends 2-3 per week, max.

NAGR sends 3-4 per week.

And when RMGO sends out 1 a week, people complain that they don't know what's going on.

Notice that I posted this article, and didn't ask for money.

Btw, the lobbying report in the article IS talking about NRA/ILA.

If illustrating differences with the NRA (and ILA) offends you, yes, you shouldn't be on RMGO's e-mail list. We'll tell it like we see it every time.

You know, now that I am a bit more awake and the thought process is starting to kick in, things need to be done by LOCAL Pro2A organizations AT A LOCAL LEVEL that will shed a positive light on firearm owners.
Relatively simple things that there is NO WAY the message can be misconstrued.
Sponsor a Poker Run, Carshow or similar where the proceeds and donations are donated to the Aurora victims or similar.
Offer firearm awareness and safety classes for educational institutes at all level, even community colleges and the like.
God forbid another incident occurs but if it does, be just as vocal as the antis in decrying unwarranted violence against innocents.
Right now would be a great time to come out in support of the recall campaigns and show the REAL reasons for the recall, not as much the infringement of our rights, but rather that Morse and Giron (along with the rest that supported the agenda) refused to hear the voices of their constituents and Sheriffs and did not legislate in a fair and objective manner.
How about a message,publication or similar that illustrates the positives of firearm ownership.
Its not about the money. Its not about attacking and bitching about "Our Rights". Those things are easily dismissed by the Antis.
You need to work on "The Human Element". That's why the Antis are so successful at their message.
Fight smarter WITH other organizations instead of trying to play one upmanship.
We all have a common goal, work as a well oiled team to achieve that goal.

That's the only way to compete against a well oiled team like they are.
They got "game".
Do you?

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Originally Posted by coloccw

Dudley only comes on here when he needs money.

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Actually, if you look at my posts, a great portion of them are responding to questions from a small group of naysayers. I could ignore, but will address specific questions head-on.

Most of the threads I start have to do with something purely political.

Most of the naysayers have me at a disadvantage: they don't list their real name, so they are immune from criticism or accountability. I could have done that originally, but prefer to be open about who I am and what I think.

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Originally Posted by BPTactical

Sponsor a Poker Run, Carshow or similar where the proceeds and donations are donated to the Aurora victims or similar.
That's the only way to compete against a well oiled team like they are.
They got "game".
Do you?

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Or, perhaps, train school teachers for free?

Or provide scholarships?

I have a million good ideas, as I'm sure everyone here does. I have some bad ones, too. But you can't run with these ideas if you don't have the time/talent/money.

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Originally Posted by Dave

Never got the promised PMAG from RMGO either.

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Since I don't know your full name I can't check to see what happened. You're welcome to e-mail office@rmgo.org the info and we'll see. But we send out regular thank you's and member cards.

If you were promised a pmag in a promotion and didn't receive it, we'd have to rectify that in another way now that the ban is in effect.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPTactical

You know, now that I am a bit more awake and the thought process is starting to kick in, things need to be done by LOCAL Pro2A organizations AT A LOCAL LEVEL that will shed a positive light on firearm owners.
Relatively simple things that there is NO WAY the message can be misconstrued.
Sponsor a Poker Run, Carshow or similar where the proceeds and donations are donated to the Aurora victims or similar.
Offer firearm awareness and safety classes for educational institutes at all level, even community colleges and the like.
God forbid another incident occurs but if it does, be just as vocal as the antis in decrying unwarranted violence against innocents.
Right now would be a great time to come out in support of the recall campaigns and show the REAL reasons for the recall, not as much the infringement of our rights, but rather that Morse and Giron (along with the rest that supported the agenda) refused to hear the voices of their constituents and Sheriffs and did not legislate in a fair and objective manner.
How about a message,publication or similar that illustrates the positives of firearm ownership.
Its not about the money. Its not about attacking and bitching about "Our Rights". Those things are easily dismissed by the Antis.
You need to work on "The Human Element". That's why the Antis are so successful at their message.
Fight smarter WITH other organizations instead of trying to play one upmanship.
We all have a common goal, work as a well oiled team to achieve that goal.

That's the only way to compete against a well oiled team like they are.
They got "game".
Do you?

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This has been my 'beef' with ALL pro-2A orgainzations for years!! Where has the "pro-gun" 'indoctrination' been for all these years? There's been plenty, and I mean PLENTY of anti-gun indoctrination from the other side forever. Where are the stories, media outlets, photos, etc. from all these 2A organizations? Every time there's an anti-gun story, there should be five more pro-gun stories! Instead, all we get are 'lobbyists' and pleas for $$$! Almost every school has an anti-gun policy, zero tolerance, etc. Where'd that come from? Extortion from the administration by withholding $$$ if you don't comply, etc. Where are the "pro gun" tolerance policies? Where are the "gun accepted here" zones? How well publicized are they? etc. etc. etc.

We are our own problem, sometimes, because most conservatives just want to be left alone to live their lives in freedom. I think those days are gone. Time for the pro-2A orgs to all 'get along' and fight together. If you study history, you'll see just how well connected, organized and long-living the "antis" are! Their agenda will span multiple generations and be planned out for decades and decades. Just one example? Agenda 21. Started well before the 80's when they had the public conference in Brazil. Now fast-forward to today: it's in most school districts and in every 'planned community'!! It's insidious, spreads like cancer. We need to be the radiation!!