Rail Options.

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11-21-2013, 18:06
NightCat

Weight Savings (Rails, etc)

Hey everyone,

I'm looking to lighten my AR a little bit by changing out some stuff..

I currently have a Troy Ind. 11" Bravo Rail, which I have been trying to find a Weight on online, but nothing appears..

Some say 13oz, some say 14.5oz, either way. I dont have the one with the proprietry barrel nut, I have just the regular 4 bolt freefloat.

And I'm trying to get some input as to what would be a lighter rail?

I've been looking around at Centurion Rails, Daniel Defense, etc.

Suggestions?

(Trying to stick with 11-12", maybe shorter...but would require me to buy a gas block or something)
11-21-2013, 18:32
mutt

Even going with the lightest options from DD or Centurion is only going to shave off a few ounces (assuming same length) while costing you hundreds of dollars for the gear. Strong but light generally means expensive. Is the rail system the only place you can shave weight from or do you have other heavy stuff on the rifle? Optics, mounts, lights, lasers, bipod, etc? What barrel profile do you have? Do you even need a rail system?
11-21-2013, 18:43
NightCat

I have considered the Cost vs Weight savings on a raill, and I didn't realize that my Troy was actually fairly light if it is only 13oz... The DD Lite is 14, but doesnt come in 11, however in 12" instead.

Its a pretty regular build..

The best way to save weight would really be to get a 14.5" barrel with a pinned muzzle device.

Regardless, Optics - Micro T-1, HSP Thorntail mount w/ Inforce WML, DD Back up irons, magpul AFG and a few rail covers.

It's a regular BCM Barrel, not a light barrel, not a BFH HD barrel.

I am however going to change my stock out from an ACS to probably an MOE or CTR stock.

I want to lose some of the length and change my Troy medieval bake for a Battle Comp 1.0
11-21-2013, 18:58
mutt

14.5 LW barrel with a pinned battlecomp would prob give you the best weight savings. Other than dropping the rail, I don't think you'll save much more weight trimming the other stuff. All your other gear seems pretty lightweight now or have a useful purpose that justifies the weight. I think you've gone as light as you can without spending a ton of money or losing useful capabilities.

The weight difference between my LW barrel and M4 barrel isn't huge but the LW rifle feels better balanced, and therefore lighter, since I don't have the useless weight hanging out on the front of the rifle. If you don't need the QD mount in the stock, go with the MOE. It's definitely lighter than the CTR.
11-21-2013, 19:09
NightCat

Quote:

Originally Posted by mutt

14.5 LW barrel with a pinned battlecomp would prob give you the best weight savings. Other than dropping the rail, I don't think you'll save much more weight trimming the other stuff. All your other gear seems pretty lightweight now or have a useful purpose that justifies the weight. I think you've gone as light as you can without spending a ton of money or losing useful capabilities.

The weight difference between my LW barrel and M4 barrel isn't huge but the LW rifle feels better balanced, and therefore lighter, since I don't have the useless weight hanging out on the front of the rifle. If you don't need the QD mount in the stock, go with the MOE. It's definitely lighter than the CTR.

Yea, and that's another Option I'm looking at.... BCM has 14.5" Middies for $460 in stock... then $189.95 to get the BC added and Pinned..

Really considering doing that then putting my 11" Bravo on it...but then I have a 16" upper laying around I have to try and sell.
11-21-2013, 19:18
NightCat

Any thoughts as to getting my 16" cut down?

it's already a middy...

Ive never considered cutting a barrel, but a friend suggested it...

Legitimacy of it? accuracy losses? Barrel damage?
11-21-2013, 19:59
mutt

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightCat

Any thoughts as to getting my 16" cut down?

it's already a middy...

Ive never considered cutting a barrel, but a friend suggested it...

Legitimacy of it? accuracy losses? Barrel damage?

As long as a competent gunsmith does the cutting, there's no problem with it. The biggest concern with cutting a 16in middy to 14.5 is gas port sizing. The gas port was originally tuned for a 16in barrel. Again, something for a competent smith to work out. Simply cutting 1.5inches off of a barrel won't save you much weight. I think it would be best to have it re-profiled to a LW and cut. Of course all the added labor cost might make it worth just buying a 14.5 LW barrel from BCM.
11-21-2013, 20:09
hatidua

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightCat

then $189.95 to get the BC added and Pinned..

Make sure that A) you never ever ever ever plan on putting anything else on that muzzle, and B) that you've shot/heard the BC in-person before deciding to permanently pin one on your rifle. I'd offer to let you shoot either of the 14.5" BCM uppers I had the BC pinned on but those have been sold and I won't be revisiting that experiment.
11-21-2013, 20:29
NightCat

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatidua

Make sure that A) you never ever ever ever plan on putting anything else on that muzzle, and B) that you've shot/heard the BC in-person before deciding to permanently pin one on your rifle. I'd offer to let you shoot either of the 14.5" BCM uppers I had the BC pinned on but those have been sold and I won't be revisiting that experiment.

Care to provide some input as to your decision?
11-21-2013, 21:26
HoneyBadger

The weight saved is minimal, but I really like the new(ish) Midwest Industries rails: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/234...ble-rail-ar-15
11-21-2013, 21:40
Wulf202

If you want to start crunching numbers
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VE&hl=en#gid=0

For specifically rails
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...DQ&output=html

You'd save about 3oz cutting your barrel down.
11-21-2013, 21:51
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulf202

If you want to start crunching numbers
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VE&hl=en#gid=0

For specifically rails
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...DQ&output=html

You'd save about 3oz cutting your barrel down.

If that.
The difference between uppers with same acc and shorter bbls is negligible. Went from a RH, 16" .625 bbl to a Stag LH M4 upper for the spouse, While visually it may appear lighter the difference wasn't. Off the top of me head IIRC
Cav arms lower, BM .625 upper 5.3
CAV lower LH stag 5.6ish
11-21-2013, 22:04
Wulf202

14.5" m4 at 25 oz
16" m4 at 28.2 oz

You could also change out the upper to one with no ejection port cover and or no forward assist and save 1-3 ounces that way.

You can loose 3 oz going to a JP lightened bolt carrier

So you've lost 9oz and spent $500 dollars

Timk has a carbon 15 for sale that runs right at 5.5lbs ready to go.
11-21-2013, 22:04
hatidua

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulf202

If you want to start crunching numbers
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...VE&hl=en#gid=0

For specifically rails
https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...DQ&output=html

You'd save about 3oz cutting your barrel down.

-that's a great resource!
11-21-2013, 22:24
Wulf202

Googlefu is strong

Starting to look into a build based off these;

http://aeroprecisionusa.com/shop/ar1...forward-assist

http://www.model1sales.com/index.cfm...ategory_id=375

KAC flip up rear, remove the bayonet lug and the sling mount, maako unlined handguards and a tlr-3

But I won't be going with the JP carrier due to reliability and cost.
11-21-2013, 23:51
NightCat

Thanks for the info Fellas!

I do want a shorter profile barrel for more than just the weight savings...however, that was an added plus that now seems to not be so great..

I'll do some more looking around for other area's to cut weight....perhaps I'll just build a completely different upper...or a different rifle at that entirely..

And as far as the rail system weights go...this is mine..
https://troyind.com/products/bravo-11-fde

I'm assuming it falls under TRX Standard...and in 11"...says this fucker weighs 20.04 Oz.... thats 1 1/4 lbs of rail.....
11-27-2013, 00:32
Joe_K

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...prod55523.aspx

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-K.../bcm-kmr13.htm

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts...prod41976.aspx

http://www.missionfirsttactical.com/...tility-Stock_5

Sent from my PRC 117A in my Batmobile disguised as a sedan.
11-27-2013, 06:19
cofi

The new bcm keymod rail is 7.7 oz for there 13"

If you want to try out a battlecomp on a 14.5 your welcome to shoot mine
fwiw I can't stand the same thing
11-27-2013, 14:15
nisils14

this might help as well, seems a bit outdated now though. I'm reading your 11" bravo is 13oz by itself.

https://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?...DQ&output=html
12-01-2013, 18:09
NightCat

I'm Fairly sure my rail is more than 13oz...but I really dont want to dismount it to weigh it haha.

However, here are some weights of other stuff that may be useful to others.
Magpul XT Rail Covers: 15.6g each (47g for 3)
Magpul XTM Rail cover: 6.5g ea (26g for 4 assembled sections)
Magpul RSA: 37g
Magpul AFG2: 73g.
Magpul ACS (Milspec): 407g
12-01-2013, 19:04
NightCat

1 Attachment(s)

I did it.......... It's 409g = = 14.4270504 ounces
Attachment 37321

not all that heavy after all
12-01-2013, 19:21
NightCat

Perhaps I should be looking into either..
http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-1...14lw%20std.htm

or

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-B...14lw%20bfh.htm

Both in stock..
12-01-2013, 19:52
Delfuego

I had a BCM 14.5 lightweight with a Battlecomp and Troy TRX rail. It was very, very light and shot soft and flat. I should never have sold it! (kept it in the family though).