Help with a child in school.

My daughter is having a hard time in a couple of classes getting things done. She started middle school this year and we figured we would let her have a little more rope so to speak. Well she has gone and hung herself with it a couple of times and I have tried everything from yelling, grounding, and trying to help her anyway I can to no avail. She seemed to be getting better once again she is falling into the same issues. She forgets work assignments (even though I told her to write them down) and doesn't study for quizzes and has gotten some pretty bad grades.

Now here is the big problem I had some very serious health problems which pretty much screwed her out of her spring break and summer vacation. So we decided to go to Disney World after Christmas break to make it up to her and for the family to enjoy my good health again. I have threaten her with not going if she doesn't get her grades up and now I'm facing the fact I may have to leave her at home which I really don't want to do.

So any ideas on how to help her figure out this whole you need to study and actually do the work to get good grades or is it time she learns to pay the piper for her actions?

First do not make a threat that you are not prepared to follow through on. It would suck for her to not get to go to Disney, but it would be a lesson she will never forget. Second I went and talked to all my kids teachers and volunteered her to stay after school to get all her work turned in. She may not get credit for the late work, but you are showing her she will have to turn them in regardless. No slacking in school from this dad. Good luck.

Never threaten anyone, especially your kids. Calmly explaining that every action has consequences, explaining the consequences for poor performance and then following through on those consequences is one of the toughest parts of being a Dad. Often I feel like I am the one being punished for the actions of my children. I remind myself that this is the curse of being a grown up.

If you don't want to cancel the trip, you could let your daughter know that she will be doing homework while she is at Disney with the rest of the family. That prospect should be horrifying for anyone. It would be tough on you, but if those are the consequences, then better to pay and learn now than pay later when the consequences are even greater.

Just a thought, have you talked to your daughter about her plans for her life? I've found that if you can tie the motivation into the kids desire, they often will step up their game. Growing up is not a linear, constant process. Some days, weeks, months, years, are better than others. Consistency and determination in the face of fear, frustration and downright stupidity is how I look at parenting. We somehow survived and our parents did not make all the right decisions. Some kids never get it and they end up going down a horrible road. Most kids, including most of us (20, 30, or even 40 years ago) somehow made it to where we are today. Maybe not as successful as we or our parents had hoped, but we are here and we are doing the best that we can. Teaching our children that there are many ways to measure success is just part of the process.

Keep up the good work Dad!

Be safe.

Mine are 23, 21, and 15, and yes, the 15 year old is a daughter and I feel your pain [Beer]

Been through the whole thing with a girl and a boy. It's stressful and it sucks. Take away everything they love, make their lives miserable, that's about all you can do. They will hate you for it for many years. But, if it gets them through school, it will be worth it in the end. When they are older they will understand why you did what you did and will be grateful you cared enough to try to help them through. Mine hated me and wishes I was dead. They both graduated high school and the girl currently works in collections and the boy is working towards his journeyman electrician certification. What I did didn't scar them for life or screw them up. Today, they are 25 and 22 years old and have thanked me countless times for doing what I had to do to keep them in line and focus on graduating.

Here's what my parents did to me about the same time in life, when I started slacking off and getting bad grades. I was either: In school, in bed, doing chores, or at the dining room table doing schoolwork. For about a year until I got my act back together. From the minute I got home from school until I went to bed. All weekend long. If I was done any homework, I'd be doing things they came up with, book reports for them to look at on whatever they came up with, reading, etc. They'd go get used math books from other places and make me do everything in it. Stuff like that. Sucked, but it worked overall.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lurch

My daughter is having a hard time in a couple of classes getting things done. She started middle school this year and we figured we would let her have a little more rope so to speak. Well she has gone and hung herself with it a couple of times and I have tried everything from yelling, grounding, and trying to help her anyway I can to no avail. She seemed to be getting better once again she is falling into the same issues. She forgets work assignments (even though I told her to write them down) and doesn't study for quizzes and has gotten some pretty bad grades.

Now here is the big problem I had some very serious health problems which pretty much screwed her out of her spring break and summer vacation. So we decided to go to Disney World after Christmas break to make it up to her and for the family to enjoy my good health again. I have threaten her with not going if she doesn't get her grades up and now I'm facing the fact I may have to leave her at home which I really don't want to do.

So any ideas on how to help her figure out this whole you need to study and actually do the work to get good grades or is it time she learns to pay the piper for her actions?

---

No computer or cell phone unless it is school or after school activities related. 2 days tops and they are lost without the whole social networking.
You messed up by putting a hollow threat which , it appears you cannot enforce. that now makes you the weakest link. Why should she be concerned about penalties, when Disneyland was a go.

Well we all had a talk and she is now grounded from all electronics till Friday at 7 pm. She has to write a note to the teachers (its really only two classes) to see what she can do between now and the end of the semester to get her grades up. Since most of the Disney trip is paid it was foolish for me to threaten her with that so I explained that she would go but will have to do school work while we are there and if the grades go down any further she will be grounded for a month when we get back. So only time will tell now.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lurch

Well we all had a talk and she is now grounded from all electronics till Friday at 7 pm. She has to write a note to the teachers (its really only two classes) to see what she can do between now and the end of the semester to get her grades up. Since most of the Disney trip is paid it was foolish for me to threaten her with that so I explained that she would go but will have to do school work while we are there and if the grades go down any further she will be grounded for a month when we get back. So only time will tell now.

---

Grounding her will do nothing, unless you remove the social network access, internet, cell ph etc. Instead of the solid month, break it up in to weekends, when the teen interaction takes place. She have any events on the calendar? Those look like the times to be grounded.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jim

Grounding her will do nothing, unless you remove the social network access, internet, cell ph etc. Instead of the solid month, break it up in to weekends, when the teen interaction takes place. She have any events on the calendar? Those look like the times to be grounded.

---

She is grounded from all electronics, television, phone, computer, and tablet. Unless used for school work.

Sounds like ADD.. I have it. Even at 43 remembering things or concentrating on what you need to do without an outside stimulant is difficult. For me it was mt dew
/ heavy caffeine.. at some point my mind would stop wandering and I would be able to focus. People think that ADD is imaginary but I can tell you that it is very real. I'm the text book case, fall asleep in school, forget assignments or wait until 2:00 am the night before they are due to finish them.

Threats will not work, ask me how I know, you need to find the mechanism that will motivate or inspire them to do what they need to do vs what they want to do. As a business owner I struggle with this all the time. I had meds a couple years ago and they accomplished what they were supposed to do 100%.. I don't take them now simply because I don't want to go through the process that it takes to get them prescribed, if i did I would have much more productive days that's for sure.

sent from a soup can and some string..

I'm glad the meds worked for you. I am very hesitant about any kind of regular medication for teenagers. There are just sooo many examples of kids who have been prescribed into numbness and psychotic behavior. At a minimum, the drugs do not allow for the young person to develop natural coping skills to normal stress in life.

I would never say never about good medical/pharmaceutical care, but I would urge caution at an age where the human brain is doing a great deal of growing and developing.


Not a criticism, just my $.02

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cstone

I'm glad the meds worked for you. I am very hesitant about any kind of regular medication for teenagers. There are just sooo many examples of kids who have been prescribed into numbness and psychotic behavior. At a minimum, the drugs do not allow for the young person to develop natural coping skills to normal stress in life.

I would never say never about good medical/pharmaceutical care, but I would urge caution at an age where the human brain is doing a great deal of growing and developing.


Not a criticism, just my $.02

---

Absolutely true! I only used them on days that I knew i needed some extra help/focus. The issue here is recognizing that there is a problem and working towards an effective treatment and finding a solution that works for that person vs grounding someone from electronic devices. there may very well be a way to fix it without drugs, I am more productive at certain times of the day such as late evening/early night, some times forcing someone into a schedule such as "you are doing homework at 4:30 sharp" is counter productive.

sent from a soup can and some string..

I personally think that "school" is a pretty artificial environment. Everyone gets up, goes to a building and is segregated by age or ability into a group of 20 to 30 people where a specialist trained in pedagogy leads the group through instruction and exercises to supposedly increase the basic knowledge of the group in a particular area. Regardless of the performance of the individual students, the group routinely moves on to the next level each year where some new material is introduced while older information is reinforced. This process requires 12 to 13 years of an American's life. At the end of that time frame, the student is either prepared for some type of gainful employment or moves into another specialized environment where more knowledge is introduced to further prepare the student for gainful employment.

Given what is spent each year in the US on all forms of education given in a school setting, I seriously wonder if this wasn't someone's sick idea of warehousing young people till they can perform useful service for themselves and society.

Anyone who has served in the military is probably familiar with what I believe is the most effective method of training: See, Show, Do. Every task is demonstrated, explained, practiced, and tested for proficiency. The military teaches HS graduates nuclear physics in less time than it takes the average HS student to read and discuss Huckleberry Finn (which apparently is no longer done in most American HS).

Different people learn through different styles and at a different pace. When the student is ready the teach will appear. When the person finds what they want to do, they will be motivated to work and learn. Helping our kids to find their goals and persevering through the rough patches is a big part of parenting.

If this is all relatively new (her behaviors) and it's only 2 classes out of how many that are the problem, I'd wonder about a couple of things with those classes, subject, methodology of the teachers, etc.

I'm NOT saying it's the teacher's fault, but a little further in depth thought process to it may reveal something you can use to spark her motivation. Or possibly there's someone in those classes distracting her, like a boy she's got a crush on, or a bully, or any number of things, could be as mundane as where her seat is in those classes.

I had problems in a math class all of a sudden in my 8th grade year. I was ALWAYS great at math and science subjects, I couldn't even put my finger on it, but it was the only class I was seated near the back of the room and turns out, it was my vision giving me problems and subconsciously since I couldn't see everything on the overheads and blackboard, I'd disconnect from the class mentally and go off into my own little world during class. Got glasses and it was like a whole new class for me. Strange, and I had no fricken clue that was my problem, but found the vision thing due to a hunting trip of all things.

Just saying it could be something other than her attitude and it's worth investigating.

What kind of school is she going to? This could be some other type of situation here. Who are her 'friends'. Is she performing below her intelligent level? Is this odd behavior? Something else might be going on.

cstone,

Your observations about public 'education' are correct. Our 'education' system originated in Prussia after Napoleon humiliated the Prussian military. It was deliberately designed to produce people fit for one of three economic/social roles: the great majority were to be workers or soldiers, able to read and do basic arithmetic sufficient to effectively follow orders (but NEVER to question the legitimacy of those orders); those selected for the next level were given more advanced mathematical, linguistic and scientific training along with limited analytical skills to prepare them for technical positions (engineers, administrators, lawyers, physicians, military officers, etc...); a tiny minority were prepared to become part of the ruling class by receiving what we might properly term a classical liberal education, including a deeper knowledge of history, philosophy and logic. That ruling class was to have a monopoly on critical thought and even its members were never to question the basic tenets of Prussian imperialism.

This ghastly obscenity was imported by 'progressives' who wanted to reform the excessively (from the progressives' perspective) self reliant and independent American people into good, pliable sheep who would not object to the imposition of a progressive utopia. Unfortunately, the plan was ultimately successful (when was the last time you heard any 'mainstream' types seriously question any of the unconstitutional programs foisted on us by the feds?) and we are all paying the price as this unworkable collectivist wet dream implodes from its own internal contradictions.

That system is antithetical to the ideals of a free society as envisioned by the founders of our republic. It is also alien to the natural, free human spirit; so thoroughly soul destroying that I have come to regard it as a serious form of child abuse.

To the original poster - your best solution would be to home school your child, providing her with healthy values and a real education instead of subjecting her to the foul agenda of the government-run indoctrination centers mistakenly referred to as 'schools'. The fact that she is not doing 'well' at complying with the government school crap is a sign that there is still hope...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by def90

Absolutely true! I only used them on days that I knew i needed some extra help/focus. The issue here is recognizing that there is a problem and working towards an effective treatment and finding a solution that works for that person vs grounding someone from electronic devices. there may very well be a way to fix it without drugs, I am more productive at certain times of the day such as late evening/early night, some times forcing someone into a schedule such as "you are doing homework at 4:30 sharp" is counter productive.

sent from a soup can and some string..

---

Crap, everything in your posts seems to describe how I am at things. Never was prescribed anything since my mom didn't want me on anything, but both my dad and sister are ADD and sister is autistic. I was always upsetting teachers and counselors at my high school because I scored a 34 on the ACT, 1500 on SAT, 98 on the ASVAB but had a 1.997 GPA at graduation because I had a hard time getting my homework done. Time in the Army got me able to focus better, but now being a few years out I find myself slipping again.

Punishments never worked on me either. I could find ways around it when parents were not around, like when I was at work or not looking since my bedroom was in the basement. Plus, I knew they couldn't ground me forever, and I was actually content to read books from the library.

First I have to say that I am not a parent so take what I say with a grain of salt. Now my mother, girlfriend, sister in-law, grandmother and several other relatives are teachers so I have a perspective that is school success based.

There are a lot of good comments in here, but there is something that I feel has been overlooked to a degree. If a child is a good kid and in general does what they are told, then the real issue is that they are not retaining information. Punishments only work if a child does something knowingly that is breaking a rule that is set for them. Most children are smart and more than capable of performing all assignments given to them at their grade level with very little effort. What is generally lacking is the ability to understand what they do not know, and the motivation to seek it out and learn it. You have to teach a child good study habits as well as effective study techniques in order for them to learn successfully.

There are issues with the school system, but all the teachers that I know do a damn good job teaching and their level of professionalism is actually very impressive. With that said, the class sizes are too large for them to have the time to individually take each child aside and fix study habits, and usually it does no good because they are not there to enforce the rules they set for at home studying and completion of homework. The parent has the responsibility of making sure the child completes all tasks to a satisfactory level.

What I would do: contact the teacher and ask for a metric that shows proficiency for the upcoming assignments. They usually will have something that shows exactly the level of proficiency that they expect for a given assignment. Then take time aside to teach your daughter how to study and make sure she understands what proficient work looks like. Most likely she just does not understand what is expected of her, and does not understand the level of effort she needs to put into every assignment. I would devote an hour every school night for her to work on homework under your supervision. You will only have to do it until she starts cranking out proficient or better assignments, and by then her grades will have improved, and she will have structure to her studying that allows her to succeed through the future. You will want to get a handle on this now before high school.

The main idea is to teach the kid to seek out what proficient work looks like, and then give them the positive re-enforcement to motivate them to achieve that standard. Learning is all about understanding what is expected and displaying it in a proficient manner.

Thanks for all the advice. Home schooling is financially out of the question and I have varying thoughts about home schooling anyway. She seems to be doing better with remembering to write stuff down so she remembers it and her grades have improved. She is evening trying to finish stuff early so she has time for other things beside school work.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dave

Crap, everything in your posts seems to describe how I am at things. Never was prescribed anything since my mom didn't want me on anything, but both my dad and sister are ADD and sister is autistic. I was always upsetting teachers and counselors at my high school because I scored a 34 on the ACT, 1500 on SAT, 98 on the ASVAB but had a 1.997 GPA at graduation because I had a hard time getting my homework done. Time in the Army got me able to focus better, but now being a few years out I find myself slipping again.

Punishments never worked on me either. I could find ways around it when parents were not around, like when I was at work or not looking since my bedroom was in the basement. Plus, I knew they couldn't ground me forever, and I was actually content to read books from the library.

---

That was me as well. Went to a tech school for electronics/audio engineering and graduated with a 4.98.. would have been a straight 5.0 but my last teacher said that he couldn't give me the max grade simply because I missed the maximum days allowable for the period. I was good at school but fitting into the school structure just wasn't going to happen. In high school i averaged b's and c's, i always aced the tests but my daily/weekly homework was always missing.

I have learned that I simply don't fit into the 9 to 5 environment. I have also learned that if i have a period of inspiration at 10:00 at night on a tuesday then that is when i am going to get stuff done.

Otherwise, threats from my parents about studying and so on pretty much just went over my head.

sent from a soup can and some string..

Quote:

---

Sounds like ADD.. I have it. Even at 43 remembering things or concentrating on what you need to do without an outside stimulant is difficult. For me it was mt dew
/ heavy caffeine.. at some point my mind would stop wandering and I would be able to focus. People think that ADD is imaginary but I can tell you that it is very real. I'm the text book case, fall asleep in school, forget assignments or wait until 2:00 am the night before they are due to finish them.

---

One other thought on this. Two of the kids were ADD and ADHD. The med's worked but for one boy there came a time when he grew out of it. Some do and some do not. The thing we noticed when the one boy grew out of it was that the drugs started working like they would on normal people. Instead of slowing him down it sped him up.

Of course the doc was like "what makes you so sure?" well, when you give them speed and they go hyper then the intended effect has been lost....[Bang]