http://crci.org/
Seems to be the closest outdoor range from Eldorado Springs, anyone ever been there?
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http://crci.org/
Seems to be the closest outdoor range from Eldorado Springs, anyone ever been there?
A few of us are members.
Was their a specific question you wanted answered?
It's a great club except there's a few issues:
1) They recently renovated the 25/50/100/200 yard range. It's been finished since spring (or maybe even last year?) but there is only two positions out of about 20 that have the 25 and 50 yard holes dug for the target stands. This means if you get a new rifle, or scope, or whatever and don't want to chase it at 100 yards, you're shit out of luck as there seems to ALWAYS be a large group around those two bench positions.
2) Despite having 15 action shooting berms, hosting a number of different action shooting sports, you cannot practice for these events at CRC. Or self defense. God knows why. From the rules: "“QUICK DRAW” handgun practice or shooting IS NOT PERMITTED on CRC property." Most people seem to completely ignore this head scratcher.
I think you can if you show MarkCO (username) you're proficient or something like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeusExMachina
People ignoring it like most rules that they do not grasp the concept of? Ya, that too.
That is true!Quote:
Originally Posted by kidicarus13
Technically, there are 12 action shooting berms, and one 200 yard backstop (berm 13) on the East ranges. There are now target backer holes in the berms and frames next to one of the brick outhouses.
Also, berm 13 should have the gong up at 200 yards soon. The 100 and 200, if you take your own mat or bench, can be used for rifle sight in as well. The Silhouette range is where I usually shoot to sight in my hunting rifles.
On the East ranges, there is USPSA, 3Gun, Zoot, Cowboy, Steel Challenge, Rimfire Challenge, Steel Dogs, IDPA. There are also a bunch of other styles. Best range in the state.
what i find weird is that when i went to orientation i was told you may NOT place your own target stands
bizzare
No offense, but some of the things that have been said in orientation over the last few months have not all been true. A BOD member has been made aware and he will work on education for the range intro folks.Quote:
Originally Posted by lowbeyond
The club provides target stands for the ranges BTW. Just a stapler and targets is all you need. That was done because people were actually climbing the fence and taking barricades from the enclosure (the pallets are NOT target stands), using them for target stands, shooting the crap out of them and then leaving trash all over the range, which I was then spending half a day picking up 2 or 3 times a month.
thats understandable.
IIRC how it was explained to me was that the prohibition on placing your own stands was to prevent people from dynamic shooting drills on the static (non-3 bermed) ranges
i get it in a way... though for pistol, id rather set the distance as i wish. heh
i suppose its not an issue so long as you are quallied on the 3 berm..
*shrug*
Did you know there are turkeys on the property?Quote:
Originally Posted by lowbeyond
Much appreciated
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glock Shooter
The powers that be out there totally fubar'd up the 25/50/100/200 portion of the range and removed a lot of 200 yard shooting positions and put up berms that removed a lot of usability from that portion of the range. All because of a few idiots ruining it for the rest of us by somehow putting rounds into the house or storage shed out there. I like the place but not as much as I did. As mentioned they have the ability to do 3 gun and personal defense type practice out there but it is specifically prohibited unless part of a sanctioned and supervised match of some sort (again this is as informed via the orientation way back in the day so perhaps some of that has changed). Forgive the term but the place does have a "Fuddly" nature about it at times but given the choice it is a great place otherwise. (The individual performing the orientation specifically said and I quote from actually hearing it myself "We just do not want to attract that sort out here".) Other than that, just a lot of wind at times.
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Yep, for the "straight line ranges" there are more restrictions. Getting cleared for dynamic shooting on the East range is easy, unless you have never done that sort of thing or really are clueless. A grand total of 5 people have been "cleared". Took about 20 minutes, and none of them had any issues. I can't understand why more people have not requested it to be honest.Quote:
Originally Posted by lowbeyond
Only 5?
Wow. It was me and another guy when I went so that's 2 of the 5.
And it's super easy. Know the 4 rules, the 180 and a couple other easy things and don't be an idiot. You're good. Duh
Not really bitching that much, just a little. Hehe
Thanks again for your time to qually people. It's much appreciated!
For starters, I'm sure very few are even aware. I doubt every CRC member on CO-AR knows this. It's not on the CRC website.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO
Secondly, I'm sure most aren't even aware it's against the rules. Having 13 action berms open unrestricted probably surprises people that no action shooting is allowed except at matches. It certainly surprised the shit out of me and my friends, who had been members for over a year at the time I read that. It wasn't mentioned at the orientation for sure.
Third, who wants to bother? To schedule something with you to do get cleared for something they do already. Plenty of people have odd schedules, and with the exception of matches, the range is typically a ghost town. Ghosts don't care if someone's doing draw drills.
Well, there is a sign posted at the mouth of each berm, and it has been in the rules for at least 4 years. If you joined in the last 4 years, you signed an agreement that you would abide by the rules. If you want to get upset with someone, it is not me, who made an effort to give people a path to be able to shoot dynamically on the "East Ranges" (as opposed to the "Action Ranges". Without me working with the BOD to get this pretty simple path approved, then you might have something to complain about.
That said, the three guys hosing the berms with AKs were not safe. When some moron starts doing quickdraws and shoots himself in the leg, I don't want to be the one that shows up to find the dead idiot, and then see the club go bye-bye because they were just doing "something they do already." There has been a TON of evidence that there are some pretty stupid people who are members at CRC.
Get caught without being cleared, lose your membership...sure there will be someone to take you place who wants to abide by the rules they agreed to.
When was the sign posted? I've never ever seen one.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO
It is not clear in the rules, and it is not clear as to why it's even IN the rules.
I feel like I've had this argument before. If someone is stupid and unsafe, they're not going to stop and read a sign and say, "Oh, I better not do this." Or after they scrutinize the rulebook for the 3rd time, suddenly realize they're in the wrong and not do it.
Better yet, if someone is caught being stupid and unsafe, they should lose their membership. If you're caught behaving responsibly but haven't gone through the "quick draw permitting process", it doesn't make sense to lose one's membership.
This is just another example of something that was not communicated properly to the membership as a whole. I have been a member for years and at no point do I recall anyone communicating a way to be "cleared" for such activities. As a result I havent had the need or desire to utilize the berms. As such I wouldn't have seem a sign posted there indicating there was a way to be cleared. Or is the signage just related to the do's and dont's.
Like my range that sounds more of a BOD than RO. The BOD is usually comprised of IPSC, High Power , BR shooters who don't understand why someone is "wasting all that ammo" when on the line. Some of the BOD guys up at my place probably still have the same 20 rd box of .06 they purchased with their rifle, through Sears Roebuck.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeusExMachina
Here is the email sent out April 5th. No Other communication was sent regarding the east range except construction news.Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC88-93
There is also this in the general range rules so draw and fire drills on the east berms (or anywhere else) were already ruled out.Quote:
Originally Posted by CRC Apr 5 2013
Nothing in it about getting cleared for anything, blanket disallow movement while shooting and draw/fire.Quote:
4. Away from the firing line handguns may not be carried in holsters, except for law enforcement personnel in uniform or persons holding valid concealed carry permits. “QUICK DRAW” handgun practice or shooting IS NOT PERMITTED on CRC property.
Mark, I know you can clear people because of your posts here, otherwise nothing.
(FWIW you can hear round after round go spinning over the berms during matches with low targets.)
There are some other rules that are blanket ignored like no semi auto on the rimfire berm.
They were installed during the spring workdays, on every berm. And like Merl posted, everyone was sent the above e-mail. I'll bet you would have seen these if they said "Free .22LR ammo".Quote:
When was the sign posted? I've never ever seen one.
Heh. I was told at orientation no carry, open or CCW anywhere except matches. Park your car at the gate and trunk the gun.Quote:
4. Away from the firing line handguns may not be carried in holsters, except for law enforcement personnel in uniform or persons holding valid concealed carry permits. “QUICK DRAW” handgun practice or shooting IS NOT PERMITTED on CRC property.
Meet me at the range, get the clearance for the East range and use those. IT IS SIMPLE!
It is the ability to be "cleared" that is at issue. No communication regarding that. The above email just said "qualified range officer" that gives the impression that only organized and managed events can utilize the berms in such a manner.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO
Secondly this portion of the email.....................
"The use of high power rifles on steel targets is no longer permitted. A high power rifle is defined as a rifle firing a jacketed bullet from a bottle neck cartridge. Another problem has been ricochets caused by casual shooters not placing their targets close to the backstop."
You can not bring your own steel resetting targets out to the 200 yard berm set them against the backstop and utilize them with .223 or does that also fall under the being "qualified and authorized" and there is a way to accomplish this through the rules?
Would not have known about the ability to do so without mention in this thread, which certainly is not communication from the Club regarding a method to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO
1. I think this conversation qualifies as communication!Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC88-93
2. Yes to the second part.
Not trying to nit pick and argue the point I am treating this as a friendly conversation over breakfast ....Literally, give me a minute I smell something burning.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO
That is the point I am trying to make, this is a conversation with another user of a website that is in no way affiliated with CRC. Several of us happen to be members out there and we are talking about it here I will give you that, but it can not be construed as official communication from the Club. All communication from the Club in an official capacity has been the don'ts with no mention of "you actually can do these things IF you obtain certification from a qualified Club official." That is the thing that is turning my screws nothing more than that. Am I happy I read this thread yes because it is the only way I would have known and THAT is the problem.
Lets keep it civil here folks. Remember Mark is doing us a great service here by educating us on this so thank you Mark for letting us know. At least there is an option to qualify, they could just leave it at "no quickdraw on CRC property'' then we would not even have an option. Thanks Mark
Do you not think it is? I made clear note of the conversational and not argumentative aspect of my post.Quote:
Originally Posted by spleify
I know [Awesom]Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC88-93
Considering there is already steel mentioned at the east 200yd berm I have no issues putting up my own at that distance. There was a gong sitting for more than a month at the 200yd section of the 100/200yd rifle range, if steel at 200yd was an issue what would not have stayed as long as it did.Quote:
Originally Posted by USMC88-93
I see that rule to stop you from shooting steel at 15yd in the small berms with a 300WM
And his point is that the email (which I did not, nor any other members I know, receive) mentions nothing about being qualified to do "quick draw" shooting.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO
I think the "being civil" comment was directed at the bolded portion of the above quote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeusExMachina
Not exactly, but thanks for trying to explain my position......if we are going to open it up to conversation, I was referring to you. Mark is trying to help out here so I am not really sure why you are arguing with him. I guess I will leave it at, "if you dont like the rules they have in place or you are not pleased with the way they run things you can always cancel your membership''.
And like I mentioned earlier, at least Mark is being gracious enough to offer us an alternative. I'm sure it would just be easier for him to not qualify anyone....you know for free, on his own time and out of the kindness of his own heart.
Which is where the problem lies. He shouldn't have to do that, because it shouldn't be a requirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by spleify
The only comment that wasn't civil was the insult that the only way to get my attention would be if the notice offered free ammo.
I think it's fair to disagree that an unnecessary rule, that wasn't covered in orientation and is only mentioned in one spot with vague wording and has only been posted at the range in the last several months, is suddenly resolved because one person has mentioned it a handful of times on an Internet forum (that a small percentage of CRC members visit) that they can be exempted from the rule. It's not even reasonable to exclude the non-COAR member base from this ability under threat of club expulsion.
One or several things need to happen:
1) Remove the rule from the book.
OR
2) Allow more than one single person to permit members to "quick draw".
AND
3) Inform the entire member base that this is a rule and that many many people are breaking it, but can be exempted and how.
AND
4) Organize specific times/days that large groups of members may attend to become exempted from this rule.
The absolute easiest thing would be for #1 to happen, then no one needs to bother Mark (without the offer of free ammo).
How do you know that this whole thing is a problem? I've been shooting in berms next to ROs of action shooting sports, talked with them, even shot with them a bit and they never ever hinted at being aware of what we were all doing was against club rules. This was well before Mark so graciously offered to approve the use of the berms for which they were intended, so none of us were in the very elite 5.
Just FYI, there are a few folks that have been referred directly to me by BOD members when asked about the rules. For whatever reason, they decided not to "advertise it".
For the vast majority of shooters, you are right, there should not have to be a requirement. However, the "problems" at the club have increased in the last few years due to many factors. The worst I am aware of was a kid and his friends of a long time member. That aside, some control shows that the club has a policy, and exercises some due diligence, without which, one accident and the entire range is shut down. I, in no way, want to prevent the BOD from exercising some control in order to maintain the use of the club for us, as members.
As for my ammo comment, that was sarcastic, not a personal attack in any way.
Whoulda' thunk a simple question about CRC could get so entertaining in such a short period of time?!
[Pop]
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Originally Posted by hatidua
..right??!!??!
You have a rum and coke to go with the popcorn?Quote:
Originally Posted by hatidua
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Originally Posted by MarkCO
Be there in 5!
A great club.........high power range is the best in the West. Deserted during weekdays. Be safe
IF the weather is nice, I plan to do a 3Gun clinic at CRC on January 4th. I can take a group of COAR15 members who want to get the East Range Clearance out of the way if there is a small group that can agree on a time.