SWFA SS Turret Markings

Jim made me ask my question here. Apparently, the post whore thread is only for whoring. [Dunno]

Without starting a new thread, can someone explain why my SWFA SS 10x Elevation Turret has two layers. The first is 0-5 and the second is 5-10. Is this supposed to be used in addition to the turret revolution lines (below turret, lines going left/right with numbers). As in, left side markings are multiplied by 5 and right side markings are multiplied by 10 to know where you're at?

Are odd number turret revolutions the 0-5 markings, and even number turret revolutions the 5-10 markings?

Example here:
http://www.jonaadland.com/Hunting/Su...2/PICT0010.JPG

From the time I've spent running the turrets through their range of motion (I'm on 15 right now, still have 35 to go apparently), I would say that this scope is at 15mil (5mil/rev) from the bottom and about to start the 4th revolution.

So that would be 5mil/rev * 3rev = 15mil or 10mil/rev * 2rev = ?

Is there any advantage to using the two rows of turrets or should I just keep track of 5mil/rev?

This is my first mil/mil scope and it seems a LOT easier (to me) than moa. Granted, I haven't taken it shooting yet. At the moment, I couldn't be happier with it. The turrets have very nice audible and tactile clicks. I'm starting to see the advantages of the mil-quad reticle the more I look at the reticle chart.

Anyways, back to the turrets... help?

The second row of numbers is for those times you need to dial more than 5 mils. It's just to make your life easier.

Once you mount it and zero the rifle turn the knob all the way down and record how many turns it took to get there. That way, if you get lost you can return to zero. Or, note what line the turret is on, or get one of the add- on zero stops Skullybones will be making here shortly.

Helps determine the total number of clicks without doing the math.
Attachment 37675

Some scopes can do all adjustments in one turn.

Attachment 37677

Attachment 37679

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Originally Posted by Tim K

The second row of numbers is for those times you need to dial more than 5 mils. It's just to make your life easier.

Once you mount it and zero the rifle turn the knob all the way down and record how many turns it took to get there. That way, if you get lost you can return to zero. Or, note what line the turret is on, or get one of the add- on zero stops Skullybones will be making here shortly.

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Thats what I was wondering, but 5 isn't a difficult number to add to. 1 full turn plus 3 mils is obviously 8 and if someone can't do that math, they have problems.

I guess I could understand it if the revolution tick marks could be multiplied by either 5 or 10 and get the same answer, but if that isn't the case then its just numbers to make it harder to quickly see the answer. Also I'm aware that you count the turns down to the bottom so you can always find zero again, but I don't see how 10s is better than 5s, without having a reference to know that you're two 10mil turns up instead of four 5mil turns up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blowby

Helps determine the total number of clicks without doing the math.
Attachment 37675

Some scopes can do all adjustments in one turn.

Attachment 37677

Attachment 37679

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Again, if the point is to prevent me from having to do math, there should be a way to know which revolution I'm on and whether I multiply the revolutions by 5 or 10.

[Dunno] Maybe I'm just missing the point, but counting by 5s is pretty dang easy. Am I making sense at all? LOL

Well, since I have no problem counting by 5s, I'll probably end up putting labels over that second row of numbers when I figure out various distances so I can quickly get to a distance without looking at dope charts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tim K

get one of the add- on zero stops Skullybones will be making here shortly.

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is it going to be a kit, or a one-size-fits-most?

They will be scope specific, but we think that one size will fit all SWFA fixed power scopes, for example. The design is untested still, but if it works like we think it will, it will be easily adjustable. Skullybones may have prototypes ready some time next week.

to the OP's point:

Maybe most folks will never add more than 10 mils of DOPE on their scope. For my .260, the 10 mils gets me to about 1050m or so. Then if I add the drop that's available in my reticle, I can shoot into another county.

I like having the ability to use a 'broke scope' drill and use both hold overs AND hold unders.

The other thought here is that they use the same knobs on both the 5 mil and the 10 mil turrets. simplify the product line by having parts commonality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tim K

They will be scope specific, but we think that one size will fit all SWFA fixed power scopes, for example. The design is untested still, but if it works like we think it will, it will be easily adjustable. Skullybones may have prototypes ready some time next week.

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essentially, as long as it prevents going much past the 0 mark for your scope, then it's close enough. I know that's how the vortex folks do it, with a shim kit, IIRC.

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Originally Posted by TheBelly

to the OP's point:

Maybe most folks will never add more than 10 mils of DOPE on their scope. For my .260, the 10 mils gets me to about 1050m or so. Then if I add the drop that's available in my reticle, I can shoot into another county.

I like having the ability to use a 'broke scope' drill and use both hold overs AND hold unders.

The other thought here is that they use the same knobs on both the 5 mil and the 10 mil turrets. simplify the product line by having parts commonality.

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Thanks Belly, that first part actually makes sense. I just looked it up and even with .22LR out to 300yds, you only need 12mil of adjustment. Looking it up for higher calibers (308), again 10mils will get you out to 1k yards easily.

But still, I guess you have to know what turret revolution you're on, otherwise turn up 8mil, shoot, don't set back to zero and don't touch rifle for a few months, then you can't remember if thats 3mil or 8mil. [Dunno] just doesn't seem very useful still [LOL] Perhaps I'm too OCD and over thinking this way too much.

I put a silver paint dot at the end of the horizontal line. So I can easily see if I'm up more than a turn from zero. That's my zero "visual" stop for the SWFA. My Viper Vortex PST has a mechanical one that uses shims like stated above. It stops just past zero so I just move it a click or two to get back to zero. Still have to look at both methods to verify exact zero.

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Originally Posted by Blowby

I put a silver paint dot at the end of the horizontal line. So I can easily see if I'm up more than a turn from zero. That's my zero "visual" stop for the SWFA. My Viper Vortex PST has a mechanical one that uses shims like stated above. It stops just past zero so I just move it a click or two to get back to zero. Still have to look at both methods to verify exact zero.

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Thanks, I may end up marking it with paint once I get it zeroed. Same thing goes for the eyepiece focus (reticle), it is very easy to turn and with the flip up cap on it, it will move.

The storm finally cleared today so I looked out of my room with the scope at a building the next mountain peak over. I used gmap-pedometer and discovered it is .40 miles away (birds eye) or roughly 700yds. At that distance, the scope is crystal clear and I can make out plenty of detail on the building. I'm even able to read a roughly 1ft x 1.5ft sign that is next to the door (deliveries in rear type sign) without much difficulty. I always thought 10x at distances like that would be difficult to resolve anything. Perhaps it was just my first 3-9 scope that was pretty bad because I had trouble seeing targets at 200yds.

Anyways, just having this scope and spending time researching long distance shooting, I feel like I'm learning a lot (theory at least). Am considering picking up one of those 7" x 12" AR500 plates that whats his face is selling on here. My range goes out to 360yds, so that would be roughly 2moa x 3.5moa at that distance, and even at 200yds it would be a tricky target to hit. Now all I have to do is wait until early next week when I get home from work before I can mount the scope and head to the range.

Thanks for all the help everyone!

With a fixed scope like your 10x the light gathering and clarity will always be better than a variable like the 3-9 you had. The number of lenses needed for a variable scope can vary to maybe 5 lenses. More glass to pass light through will degrade the image a little per lens. With a fixed sight you have fewer lenses, maybe only 2 so the image is not degraded as much. Now don't get me wrong there are great quality variable scopes but you pay BIG BUCK's for the glass quality required.

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Originally Posted by Blowby

With a fixed scope like your 10x the light gathering and clarity will always be better than a variable like the 3-9 you had. The number of lenses needed for a variable scope can vary to maybe 5 lenses. More glass to pass light through will degrade the image a little per lens. With a fixed sight you have fewer lenses, maybe only 2 so the image is not degraded as much. Now don't get me wrong there are great quality variable scopes but you pay BIG BUCK's for the glass quality required.

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Makes lots of sense, I deal with mirrors primarily so the larger the objective, the more light you can gather. The old scope was a 42mm and the SS is a 42mm as well, just never put two and two together.

And yes, I've seen how expensive the high quality variable power scopes can be, kind of hope I never get THAT much into long range shooting [LOL]

Spun the turrets around another 5 cycles today and I absolutely love them! Can't wait to take this thing shooting!

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Originally Posted by BuffCyclist

Thanks, I may end up marking it with paint once I get it zeroed. Same thing goes for the eyepiece focus (reticle), it is very easy to turn and with the flip up cap on it, it will move.

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If you are varying target distance, you will be adjusting parallax often. I wouldn't worry too much about marking the eyepiece focus.

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Originally Posted by skullybones

If you are varying target distance, you will be adjusting parallax often. I wouldn't worry too much about marking the eyepiece focus.

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Not parallax, the actual reticle focus that doesn't change at distances (this is the focus ring at the very end of the scope, not the parallax ring at the front of the eyepiece nearest the thin part of the tube).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tim K

They will be scope specific, but we think that one size will fit all SWFA fixed power scopes, for example. The design is untested still, but if it works like we think it will, it will be easily adjustable. Skullybones may have prototypes ready some time next week.

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[pick-me] Yes Please!!!

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Originally Posted by BuffCyclist

But still, I guess you have to know what turret revolution you're on.

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just keep it between the navigational beacons: the scope has markings to tell you that you're between 4 & 5 in the above picture. Just put it at the zero marking (the one on the knob) in between the 4&5 (on the turret stem). Done. And yes, you're over thinking it.

go find timk's thread about his scope jig and how he makes sure it tracks correctly. Once you know it's tracking correctly (including return to zero), then all is well.

folks will check the tracking all the way up and down their scope. That's important if you plan on swapping the cope between rifles, but if a scope is going to live on a rifle on a semi-but-mostly-permanent basis, then just make sure the 10-15~ish mils that you're going to use are tracking correctly.

Thanks again Belly, I actually found TimK's thread on his scope tracking jig, looks very nice! Once I get the scope mounted and zeroed, I'll definitely be doing tracking tests, but nothing as serious as TimK's, mostly just up 1mil, line up with the reticle, up 1mil, etc.

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Originally Posted by BuffCyclist

Thanks again Belly, I actually found TimK's thread on his scope tracking jig, looks very nice! Once I get the scope mounted and zeroed, I'll definitely be doing tracking tests, but nothing as serious as TimK's, mostly just up 1mil, line up with the reticle, up 1mil, etc.

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1 mil won't really expose any flaws (not big ones at least). Track all the way up the 10 mils on the scope, with one shot at each mil mark, then measure the first and last shot. It should average out to 1 mil for both the dialed amount AND the distance between shots...

I think we were talking about the same thing.

Zero Scope
Dial up 1mil, shoot
Dial up 1mil, shoot
Dial up 1mil, shoot
Dial up 1mil, shoot
Dial up 1mil, shoot

Keep going until I get to the top of the reticle. The shots should line up with the 1mil marks in the reticle. Then, go back to zero, shot again. Then, dial down the 10mil on the reticle, for a total of 15mil of reticle holdover basically. (so I'd have 1 shot on each of the vertical 1mil diamonds on the milquad reticle.

Verifying the reticle and checking the scope tracking are two different things. It might take a bit more ammo, but they shouldn't be done together. Eliminate one variable at a time.

but yeah, we're talking about the same thing.

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Originally Posted by TheBelly

Verifying the reticle and checking the scope tracking are two different things. It might take a bit more ammo, but they shouldn't be done together. Eliminate one variable at a time.

but yeah, we're talking about the same thing.

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Ah, now I see what you're saying. Testing to make sure the reticle marks are truly 1mil apart, and then checking to make sure the turrets actually adjust the distances that they claim to.

Just a few picturs showing my Zero Stop....[LOL]

Adjusted turret away from Zero.

Attachment 37749

Back to Zero.

Attachment 37751
Attachment 37753

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blowby

Just a few picturs showing my Zero Stop....[LOL]

Adjusted turret away from Zero.

Attachment 37749

Back to Zero.

Attachment 37751
Attachment 37753

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That great. Now turn the lights way down low and show us your zero stop. :D

I'm off to get some glow in the dark paint. [Neene1]

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Originally Posted by Blowby

I'm off to get some glow in the dark paint. [Neene1]

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Best keep that turret pointed away from the enemy, they'll spot you right off.

If the lighting is too low for the silver dots then I have no use for the markings on the turret. I'll just cry and piss on them to make the attacker retreat in utter disgust!