Beginners build for 308 bolt

In the next few months I want to get a bolt gun in 308. I am by no means a precise shooter but something I want to get better at. I want to have a good platform to start with, without breaking the bank.

I have been looking at some Remy 700's, Howa's and some Savages. I would like to have a 20'' heavy bbl (threaded is good but not a deal breaker) and be left handed if possible. I am trying to stay in the price range of $600 +/- for the gun and I can add stuff later to it (bipod, optic, stock, etc). Anyone have an idea on what I might be looking for?

Personally I feel Savage such as a 10FCP offers more out of the box than Remington. Floating bolt head, easier ability to switch barrels and better build quality for the win. (I have yet to see a Savage with a crooked recoil lug or scope mount holes).
Bed it, hang a Timney or similar on it, put decent glass on it and go shoot it. You will be able to perfect the most important variable, which is you.
I know somebody that can thread it if needed.

That's the exact rifle I started shooting long range with! Savage 10FCP-HS [Beer]

There's no doubt Savage rifles shoot. I hate to admit it, but it's true. It's also true that stock fit is critical to precision shooting. Further, the number of available aftermarket stocks that are fully adjustable is much higher for Remington than for Savage. They are just not as well supported in the aftermarket. I see a few more available today than in years past, but the selection is still limited.

In light of that, I'd personally buy a Remington 700.

I hope you're reloading already this helps with a lot from fine tuning accuracy and saving tons of $$$$ shooting.
Optics and mounts... try your best not to skimp out on them... you'd be scratching your head more often than you'd want if you do (for all kine's of reasons).
As for the rifle... REM or Savage will do the job for yah.

What ever you do or get... I'm pretty sure you'll have fun with it. It only gets worse [Beer]

You can't go wrong with a rem700. I've never been a savage fan nor will I ever be. They used to have a bad reputation for being junk and cheaply made. While they have picked up in quality some what, after seeing what their accuracy was and how they where built it just turned me off of them. Like I said though they are coming around but there must be a reason more competitions and records are won and set with rem700 or 700 clones then any other action. Get what feels good in your hands and sets in your shoulder the first time you throw it up. There are enough guys that shoot both that if you don't like it, send it down the road, somebody will want it. As far as optics the sky is the limit. I was once told that you always spend at least as much if not more on the optics as you did the rifle.

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Originally Posted by SouthPaw

In the next few months I want to get a bolt gun in 308. I am by no means a precise shooter but something I want to get better at. I want to have a good platform to start with, without breaking the bank.

I have been looking at some Remy 700's, Howa's and some Savages. I would like to have a 20'' heavy bbl (threaded is good but not a deal breaker) and be left handed if possible. I am trying to stay in the price range of $600 +/- for the gun and I can add stuff later to it (bipod, optic, stock, etc). Anyone have an idea on what I might be looking for?

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What ever you end up with , more than likely will not be the one you use for a precision platform. Bang for the buck, Savage. Bang for the buck with unlimited aftermarket support, Remy.
However honing your skills, it will benefit you to get a savage and use money saved on ammo / components and glass. YMMV

I would stick with the 700 platform. There is alot more parts and pieces available to upgrade them over time. There are alot of the folks I compete with that run custom 700 clones (i.e. Surgeon, Defiance, Big Horn, etc.) and while they are all great - my 'little stock 700' actions shoot right there with them.

Another vote for Savages.

This is another one of those intensely personal discussions, almost as much so as religion and politics.

Along the lines of what Tim said about stocks, I would point out that any of the big name stock builders offer the same stocks inlet for Savages as for Remingtons. Some of the more budget based ones have a few less options, but there are lots of good options.

I found it very telling when a very well known (national/international renown) long range rifle gunsmith openly admitted to me that he wouldn't build a Savage because he couldn't make as much money on a Savage. The gist of the conversation was that they are too easy to modify, so he can't charge the premium for machine work and the like.

One other note:

The design of the action is not where the lights out accuracy and consistency comes from... (They play a part, but it is less than most understand)

The barrel and proper load development is where you get your accuracy and consistency on a mechanical level.

Good optics, PROPER practice, and PROPERLY fired rounds down range is where the human element becomes good (practice does NOT make perfect. Perfect practice makes perfect. Poor practice makes poor performance.)

As for the actions, here is how I see it:

Savages: Floating bolt head means that getting the bolt face to be square to the bore is only a matter of getting a properly machined bolt head (available from several sources for not a lot of money).

Remington: If you don't luck out with one of the rare, true actions from Remington, you have to have it trued to get the same squareness between the bolt face and the bore.

I have a savage 10fp, love it but it was very$$$$$ to convert it to a box mag.

In the spirit of friendly debate. While I understand the OP might not be looking to get into the competition game at this point or even ever. There can be a lot learned by watching what is used by guys who compete. The below link outlines a break out of the actions, and a whole lot of other gear, used by the guys at the PRS Finale last year. This break down is by no means a complete list of the best LR shooters or necessarily the best gear - it is just a survey of what was used by the guys who were qualified or invited.

For the knock out blow....not one Savage! http://precisionrifleblog.com/2013/1...-rifle-action/

Entry level doesn't seem to include a 5k gun. Just sayin

You couldn't be more right!

I would go with a Remington 700.

Or, get the best of both worlds with a Bighorn Arms 700 clone.

Let me add that if your a tinkerer, buy a Remington. If you don't wanna, get a Savage. Remington 700's are as bad as AR's with all their Barbie outfits and toys!

For what its worth (not much I know), I shot my Savage for a season; then instead of upgrading the stock/barrel/trigger, I sold it and bought a true'd R700 .260 that already had a Barbie make-over. My next rifle will be a Bighorn (hopefully)!

I appreciate all the feed back guys. I am leaning towards the R700. This model specifically:

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...armint-lh.aspx

I can have the barrel cut down and threaded. I haven't looked at rifles lately but looks like savage has lightened the load on lefty rifles. Any thoughts on a mossy MVP in 308?

Don't cut the barrel down. The .308 sucks enough you'll want all the velocity you can get.

The mossburg will suffer from the same lack of aftermarket support as the Savage except it will be even worse.

Buy the Remington and be done with it.

If you Have any plans to upgrade, or even thoughts of doing it in the future stay away from the mossberg. There's little to no aftermarket there for them.

That Remington that you've selected should do very well for your purposes, and you've got all the options you could ever ask for in the future.

I'm not a 308 guy myself but it does the job and its easy to load for, with more resources and options than you can shake a stick at. It's a whole different conversation if you're really looking to play at 1k and beyond, or if you're looking to shoot competition and be competitive. It's a whole different discussion and you don't get there 99% of the time with a box factory rifle from Savage or Remington etc. If that's where you're looking to go it's Build it with a competent smith, or buy from AI, Surgeon, GAP ect and add another zero behind the $600 ish price of entry.

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Originally Posted by Daniel_187

I have a savage 10fp, love it but it was very$$$$$ to convert it to a box mag.

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Why?

$210 for CDI bottom metal and $60 for the inletting from CDI directly.

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Originally Posted by Tim K

Don't cut the barrel down. The .308 sucks enough you'll want all the velocity you can get.

The mossburg will suffer from the same lack of aftermarket support as the Savage except it will be even worse.

Buy the Remington and be done with it.

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I'm curious why you are against cutting and threading the barrel??? Yes, you can get more velocity from a longer barrel, but depending on what he wants to do with it, a shorter barrel may be better.

16" .308 gas guns, and even more so bolt guns, are more than capable of 1000.

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Originally Posted by SouthPaw

I appreciate all the feed back guys. I am leaning towards the R700. This model specifically:

http://www.remington.com/products/fi...armint-lh.aspx

I can have the barrel cut down and threaded. I haven't looked at rifles lately but looks like savage has lightened the load on lefty rifles. Any thoughts on a mossy MVP in 308?

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It will shoot well out of the box, and be a good platform to build off of.

I also would vote to stay away from the Mossy. They are cheaper to get into, but they suck to change due to lack of parts.

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Originally Posted by Grant H.

I'm curious why you are against cutting and threading the barrel??? Yes, you can get more velocity from a longer barrel, but depending on what he wants to do with it, a shorter barrel may be better.

16" .308 gas guns, and even more so bolt guns, are more than capable of 1000.

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Sorry, I should have been more clear. Threading for a brake or can is a good idea. Personally, I have no objection to long and/or heavy guns. I'd rather have the velocity of the longer barrel since length doesn't bother me.

.308 ballistics are not great in the wind. I think the cartridge needs all the help it can get from whatever additional velocity is available from the extra length. Cutting barrels short is all the rage, but unless there's some specific need for a short barrel I generally advise against it.

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Originally Posted by Grant H.

I'm curious why you are against cutting and threading the barrel??? Yes, you can get more velocity from a longer barrel, but depending on what he wants to do with it, a shorter barrel may be better.

16" .308 gas guns, and even more so bolt guns, are more than capable of 1000.

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Capable yes, however the more speed and BC the better when you're dealing with long range. Therefore, heavy bullets (higher bc) are already moving a good bit slower, so every inch of barrel is a plus to get them moving. The faster it's going not only does it drop less, it's less effected by the wind, which is where the real art comes into play in LR shooting once you have the basics/fundamentals of shooting down. The more you can decrease wind effects, the better, plain and simple.

Yes short barrels can shoot well, yes they can get the job done, and yes they are handy, but there's trade offs in every decision on a LR rig and I know myself, I'd give up some of the "handy" for performance down range.

That said if the longest you plan to regularly stretch it's legs to is 500 yds, by all means cut'er down to 16" but that's just getting started if you're talking about Long Range. It's the second 500 that makes the differences show up.

One other thing about barrel length, shorter is louder. A brake on an 18" barrel is going to be incredibly obnoxious.

Tim, that makes sense. I was just curious if you had anything beyond the usual velocity and ballistics concerns. A couple guys I shoot with get really grumpy when I get my 16" .308 out.

I also have no issue with long, heavy guns, unless I am hunting. All but one of my long range guns are 26" or longer.