AC vs SQ... More probs

So, swamp cooler is officially dead. Too old and cost prohibitive to repair.

I personally would prefer to install a AC unit. We can piggyback it to the furnace if I did my research correctly.

The problem I'm running into is knowing how big (tonnage) of a unit to purchase. I have a little over 1K square feet. I "think" a 2 ton unit would work fine... from there, how do I find a person to help me install to make sure I have it done all correctly.

On top of that, what sort of cost am I looking at? I see AC units range from $700 to $3k and I can't really tell why the difference...


Help?

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Originally Posted by BigBear

So, swamp cooler is officially dead. Too old and cost prohibitive to repair.

I personally would prefer to install a AC unit. We can piggyback it to the furnace if I did my research correctly.

The problem I'm running into is knowing how big (tonnage) of a unit to purchase. I have a little over 1K square feet. I "think" a 2 ton unit would work fine... from there, how do I find a person to help me install to make sure I have it done all correctly.

On top of that, what sort of cost am I looking at? I see AC units range from $700 to $3k and I can't really tell why the difference...


Help?

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I bought few units ranging from 1.5 tons to 2 tons new AC from habitat during their fall sale last year. I still have 2 in the garage if you need one. I ll even show you my invoice. I bought these for my rental units.

The only true way to know is a heat load calculation. It takes into consideration window sq feet, direction, sq footage, net wall, insulation in ceiling and walls, sq footage over unconditioned space etc etc etc. There are probably 40 factors that determine tonnage. The old saying "400-600" per ton" is primitive and asinine to say the least. It would also be silly to put an R22 system in instead of an R410A.

Oh yeah and too big of an AC can be worse than too small.

I would take an Evaporative Cooler over an AC unit everyday of the week. Especially in such a small space. You could replace the cooler every other year and it would still be cheaper than buying and having an AC unit installed. And the Swamp cooler will cost you probably 75% less to run. Anybody can install and work on a swamp cooler.

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Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck

I would take an Evaporative Cooler over an AC unit everyday of the week. Especially in such a small space. You could replace the cooler every other year and it would still be cheaper than buying and having an AC unit installed. And the Swamp cooler will cost you probably 75% less to run. Anybody can install and work on a swamp cooler.

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If a SC isn't maintained [ filters cleaned, unit covered when off line, standing water removed off season etc] all you have is a large mold / bacteria generator. Having dealt with SC's in 2 business' i'd crack off for an AC, before allowing a SC to even be considered.

My vote is also for Swamp cooler, probably because I'm about to install one though.

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Originally Posted by hghclsswhitetrsh

The only true way to know is a heat load calculation. It takes into consideration window sq feet, direction, sq footage, net wall, insulation in ceiling and walls, sq footage over unconditioned space etc etc etc. There are probably 40 factors that determine tonnage. The old saying "400-600" per ton" is primitive and asinine to say the least. It would also be silly to put an R22 system in instead of an R410A.

Oh yeah and too big of an AC can be worse than too small.

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TOTALLY AGREE! This is the only way to get good efficiency. Only a licensed contractor can legally handle the refrigerant and the fines are pretty steep if you get caught. A good one will be able to do the HL calcs, advise you on warranties and SEER, etc.

The price ranges you are seeing are related to SEER rating and the compressor quality. The higher the SEER, the higher the price and the less it will cost to run. I like the total package that the Amana units provide. SEER, ability to clean and not damage the fins, longevity are all considerations. An improperly sized unit on the cheap will end up costing you more than doing it right the first time.

Swamps in Colorado do work reasonably well due to the low humidity, but they do have other issues, especially if you or another resident have any respiratory issues or allergies. You can usually get a dT of about 20F, so when it is 100 out, you will be at 80, but most of the time, not bad. Personally, I will take AC over SC everytime. I pulled the SC and put in AC at my first house and the power bills were maybe $20 more in the summer, 1200SF with a basement.

Are there any issues with having a Swamp cooler that is much larger than you may need?

For a do it your selfer, the swamp cooler seems to be the best bet for me. how hard is it to keep the cooler clean? Depending on your location and the location of the cooler it may be no trouble keeping it clean. buy good filter media and it lasts. Every year at the end of the season I drain and clean the cooler very well. Then I put an oil cloth type canvas cover on it with 6 ratchet straps. 7 years later, my cooler still looked new. Coolers are cheap, easy to install, easy to maintain and cheap to replace. Ac is none of those things. Obviously if you have some sort of respiratory problems you may be better off with the AC. I have lived in probably a dozen different houses with Evaporative coolers and a few ith AC. I would much rather have the swamp cooler.

Irving just remember to open enough windows. I think the instructions I have seen say open the furthest windows and put a dollar bill on the screen. If it sticks open the window/windows further. Just to the point it slips down. All that air needs to go somewhere.

Everyone I know with a swamp cooler always has issues with it.
most people I know with AC have issues with them.

there isn't a perfect solution, but I would say AC would be a lot less of a headache for you

My mother-in-law is old and can't really maintain much. She has a Swamp cooler and the only issue was when the motor went bad. She climbed the roof, pulled the motor, and bought a new one. I installed the new one with a new belt and it was more simple than doing an oil change. If she can have a trouble free Swamp cooler than anyone can. My neighbor gave me a Swamp cooler so I'll be installing it soon.

The only thing I don't like about swamp coolers is they quit working when it rains in the afternoon. They can also cause problems with hardwood floors.

Whole house fans are another item that can be very beneficial.

If you go with AC get the most efficient one you can afford.

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Originally Posted by newracer

The only thing I don't like about swamp coolers is they quit working when it rains in the afternoon. They can also cause problems with hardwood floors.

Whole house fans are another item that can be very beneficial.

If you go with AC get the most efficient one you can afford.

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get one with variable speed fan. running keeps our house average 15* cooler w/out AC running. Minimal impact on electrical usage .

Um, you are not using AC AND SC are you Jim?

Great conversations.. thanks folks...

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Originally Posted by MarkCO

Um, you are not using AC AND SC are you Jim?

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SC's are for the legionnaires crowd. The HVAC has a variable speed fan, it runs till we turn it off late night, or 24/7 if not. That minimal air flow really makes a difference regarding uniform temps in the house. I'm no hvac guy, so specs is above my pay grade.

One thing people always say about swamp coolers, as a negative, is that it can cause air quality problems. If you don't have A/C or a swamp cooler, you have your windows open with fans blowing anyway, so I don't see how it makes a difference.

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If you don't have A/C or a swamp cooler, you have your windows open with fans blowing anyway, so I don't see how it makes a difference.

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You are increasing the humidity levels in the home, and generally, in an inconsistent manner, above what is considered normal.

1000 square feet will require around a 2 ton A/C. Rule of thumb is 500-600ft2. Yes I know some people will say you shouldn't use that rule but it always end up being real close.

I wouldn't put in a 1.5 ton.

Variable speed blowers are for the furnaces unless you get a super high effiecency A/C.

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Originally Posted by MarkCO

You are increasing the humidity levels in the home, and generally, in an inconsistent manner, above what is considered normal.

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I could see that as an overall moisture issue for potential mold and other moisture related issues, but it still shouldn't support the argument that a swamp cooler brings in dirty outside air.

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Originally Posted by Irving

I could see that as an overall moisture issue for potential mold and other moisture related issues, but it still shouldn't support the argument that a swamp cooler brings in dirty outside air.

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Numerous Environmental studies have consistently found Acinetobacter Iwoffi bacteria, Bacillus species, Corynebacterium species, Pseudomonas species and Scopulariopsis species of fungus are significantly increased inside buildings with evaporative cooling (swampers). In some cases 20 and 30 times normal outdoor air ambiant levels. Many of these come from soil. The evaporative cooling process creates an environment conducive to their rapid growth. National Jewish has participated in some of these studies, and they are here in CO. There are water, and pad treatments that have been proven to reduce amount of the increase, but none have been able to completely arrest the growth and dispersion of these bacteria and molds into buildings with swamp coolers. Young, old and pregnant persons are, like many things, at greater risks as are those with diminished immune systems and lung disorders. The theory has been proferred that the winter colds in some areas are due to the cumulative effect of these species over the summer. When the swampers go off in the fall, the natural desication renders most of these inert...until the moisture levels increase again when the swampers come back on.

There is a reason Doctors are allowed to write prescriptions for AC to persons with immune and lung disorders.

Okay okay.

wow, wonderful knowledge...