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Just got my RMGO membership renewal. Went to $50 this year, was $30 last year. I guess they figured all of their requests for money wasn't doing the job, so they would get more funds this way. It's not gonna work on me, I'm out. I'll spend my money on another state gun rights org. like the second amendment foundation.
Guess Dudley is looking for another house...
He has done a great job getting those unconstitutional laws repealed. Oh wait.
Win. Thread closed.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOC
To be fair, I can't imagine anyone or anything that could have repealed those laws in this short of a time frame.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOC
He's increased the storefront parking spaces being taken up to 3. Side street parking for 2, 1 up front.Quote:
Originally Posted by coloccw
IMO he's had his day in the spotlight. IF RMGO wanted to regain "credibility" DB should resign .
If he was so sure that what he's doing would work he should have stopped it. However, those politicians have been bought and paid for long before the Aurora murders happened. They were just waiting for something that fits their narrative to come along.
The link in the email I received has a one year membership at $30.
I just received my renewal and it was $30. I sent it in. Next week I renew my NRA memberships and after the first of the year I will renew my GOA membership as well.
I heard a radio interview with DB some time ago. When asked about where donations go, he seemed agitated and danced around the topic. I have not given RMGO the time of day since.
It's a small price to pay. If they are doing what we are paying them to.
I got my email earlier this week and have to think back that last year I paid my dues and then the 2 contests, plus the plea for funds going into the November elections, and we still got our asses handed to us in the state house and governors race. That turd in the governors office couldn't lead a band of drunks out of a wet paper bag, but where were the T.V. and newspaper ads talking about it?
Do the math: $30 (dues) + $100 (various donations) = $130 x 5k people = $650k that is non-taxable profit. I think I am being conservative with the 5k people too, it was more like 10k donations over the year.
Mine came in the mail. $50 Not gonna get it, I've had enough of that org. constantly badgering for money with nothing to show for it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by newracer
How, exactly, would you have proposed to repeal the 2013 citizen control laws (aka "gun control") during the 2014 general session? In 2013, Democrats held 37 House seats and 20 Senate seats. Republicans held 28 House seats and 15 Senate seats. In 2014, Democrats held 37 House seats and 18 Senate seats. Republicans held 28 House seats and 17 Senate seats, thanks to the two recalls. In any year, 33 or more "Yes" votes are required to pass a bill through the House and 18 or more "Yes" votes are required to pass a bill through the Senate.Quote:
Originally Posted by DOC
In 2014, I sponsored and introduced House Bill 14-1151 to repeal the "mag ban." That bill had 27 House sponsors (5 short of the necessary 33 "Yes" votes) and 18 Senate sponsors (thank you, Senator Lois Tochtrop D, Adams County). The bill died in the first House committee on a party line vote, with all Democrats voting "No."
It is all too common to hear calls for "repeal" from people who either don't understand - or worse - refuse to accept, the reality that the ONLY way for the legislature to repeal anything is to pass a new bill into law. There is no way to pass a bill into law without the required 33 or more "Yes" votes in the House, 18 or more "Yes" votes in the Senate, and for the Governor to not veto that bill. 33, 18 & 1 is a hard and fast reality. It is fact.
I've posted before about this reality. For the Colorado General Assembly, there is ONE tool in the toolbox: a Bill. A bill can do three things: 1) Add words to state statute. 2) Remove words from state statute. 3) Change words in state statute.
Here's a link to HB 14-1151:
HB14-1151
Look at Page 2, Lines 2 - 3. "SECTION 1. In Colorado Revised Statutes, repeal part 3 of article 12 of title 18."
What that means is that HB 14-1151 sought to remove (Option 2) all of the words in Title 18 that resulted from the "mag ban" bill from 2013 (HB 13-1224). We didn't need to list all of those words, we just needed to point to where those words are now in statute. In order for those words to be removed (repealed) from statute, the General Assembly MUST PASS A NEW BILL INTO LAW. In order for that new bill to pass into law, it MUST receive 33 or more "Yes" votes in the House, 18 or more "Yes" votes in the Senate, and for the Governor to not veto it.
It's important to understand how a Governor's veto works in Colorado. It's opposite from how it works at the federal level. Here in Colorado, the Governor must take action to veto a bill; he MUST sign a veto. At the federal level, a President can use a "pocket veto" and hold a bill indefinitely without taking any action. That bill from Congress would never become federal law. Here in Colorado, the Governor cannot use the "pocket veto" tactic to prevent a bill from becoming law. If he doesn't sign a bill within a prescribed period of time (depends on whether it's before or after the session ends in May), then that bill(s) become law without his signature.
OK, back to the Colorado Legislative Branch… there is a common and false assumption that the state legislature can somehow repeal law by some process other than by passing a new bill into law. That is fiction, it is false, there is one and only one way for the legislature to repeal a law: PASS A NEW BILL INTO LAW, which requires 33, 18 & 1. People have told me "We don't want a new bill, we just want that law repealed!" Nope, that's a contradiction. The state legislature CANNOT repeal an existing law by any process other than passing a new bill into law to remove (repeal) words out of existing statute. That's the ONLY way for the legislature to do it. And, the ONLY way for a bill to pass into law is to have 33 or more "Yes" votes in the House, 18 or more "Yes" votes in the Senate, and for the one Governor to not veto that bill (33, 18 & 1).
There is no other repeal process for the legislature. Do any of you think that one legislator could somehow order a law to be repealed? The Governor doesn't even have authority to enact or repeal law on his own, let alone one of one hundred legislators. A committee in the House or Senate doesn't have authority to repeal an existing law. One or both chambers (House or Senate) can't repeal an existing law unless they (we) pass a new bill, which requires 33 & 18 "Yes" votes. Even then, a repeal bill could receive a veto from the Governor and it would be dead. A 2/3 majority of both chambers (43 House, 24 Senate) is required to overturn a Governor's veto.
Sen., no debating the above and yes there are still folks who need to be educated on the legislative process.
But, back to RMGO & Dudley Brown. There wasn't much anyone including RMGO could do about the new laws. The recall elections on the other hand are a totally different matter. As I remember it, RMGO initially were against the recall efforts......until it became clear that they may succeed. After the recall elections, Brown took advantage of every opportunity to claim victory as if he & his organization played a major role.
I personally have no time or money for RMGO.
Thanks for the explanation SenHolbert, so pretty much, there will be no new bill passed as as long as "stuttering John" is the Governor.
Would the Governor sign a repeal bill or allow such a bill to become law without his signature? While that might seem unlikely, it's way more likely than finding 43 or more "Yes" votes in the House and 24 or more "Yes" votes in the Senate in order to overturn a veto. My (our) focus should be on getting one or more such bills to his desk. In order for that to happen, such a bill would need to clear at least one House committee and then for at least three House Democrats to support it on the floor… assuming that all 30 House Republicans would support it, which I consider to be a safe assumption to make.
I've been getting emails from DB hawking some other org called NAGR, National Assn. of Gun Rights. Did RMGO morph into NAGR, or is he pimping for two orgs now?
OK, then don't devote time and money to RMGO.
It's odd how many gunnies reject the reality that politics requires money. Dudley and RMGO devote a great deal of time to gathering and storing up that precious resource so that they'll have it when they need it. That's way more effective than trying to find a large sum of money (or any other resource) when demand is high, time short, and supply limited. Yes, RMGO is constantly asking for money and for people to sign up for one thing or another. I'm thankful for those efforts and to everyone who gives and/or signs up for whatever it is at the moment. That's WAY more effective than trying to influence a political outcome with no or very little money. Like it or not, RMGO has done more in the campaign/political realm AND in the Colorado legislative process than any other Second Amendment organization. It isn't even close.
But, that doesn't mean that you - or anyone - has to agree or like their marketing, tactics, people. Nope, you have the freedom and liberty to choose who and what you will or will not support.
I don't go out of my way to bang on the NRA or any other 2A organization. The fact is, NRA spends more of their time and money at the federal level. Short of ratings, I haven't received support from the NRA. However, my campaigns have received financial support, endorsements, and mail from RMGO and/or RMGOPAC.
It's reality at the Capitol that people and organizations start to look for what can get done given the distribution of power during any given two-year Assembly. Principle is often quickly shed in exchange for what is possible given those political realities. RMGO doesn't play that game. Like the scene at the end of the movie "Clear and Present Danger" where the character Jack Ryan tells the President, "I don't dance," Dudley and RMGO aren't at the Capitol to strike deals and find compromise. Given that we have the Second Amendment, I see no reason to deal it away one bite at a time.
If you do not want to devote time or money to the no comprise organization, then that's OK. You aren't required to do so.
Thanks for your perspective, Sen. Holbert. I am sure that Dudley's heart is in the right place, but the whole"discourage the recalls until it becomes apparent that they have a chance to succeed, then try to take credit for that susccess" approach soured many here. If Dudley were to come forth with a sincere apology, that would go a long way towards redeeming his and RMGO's reputation here. The NRA provided significant support for the recalls, which succeeded despite being outspent 8 to 1 by Bloomberg and his lackeys.
The issue is Dudley's use, or misuse rather, of those funds for his own personal bank accounts.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenHolbert
On another note, how much of YOUR own money have YOU donated to organizations this year? There are lots of requests out to the people to donate their last dollar but seemingly very little from the public servants. If I am wrong, please correct me.
"On another note, how much of YOUR own money have YOU donated to organizations this year? There are lots of requests out to the people to donate their last dollar but seemingly very little from the public servants. If I am wrong, please correct me."
You can go to TRACER to find my political contributions. Keep in mind that you pay me, with the session per diem, a whopping $35,000 per year for this part-time job that's requires a full-time commitment. What I do with that salary and/or the money that I earn through my own company, is my own business… just as yours is to you. The saying "give until it hurts" applies very specifically to many of those who serve in the Colorado General Assembly. There is no lifetime pension for me. There is no travel budget. There is no office budget. There is no super healthcare plan as there is in Congress. We are prohibited from voting on any measure that would offer financial gain for the member or a member or our immediate family. This is not Congress.
I'm not asking for sympathy, just that we work from what is true.
none of us get any of those benefits either and some on here would be grateful for 35K a year. I doubt you'll get any sympathy. So again, how much of YOUR money, not the money given in contributions, do you donate?Quote:
Originally Posted by SenHolbert
Sen. - yes, we do have the freedom to choose who we devote our time & $ to. I assume by " the no compromise organization" you are referring to RMGO. If so then no, I will not support them. As you say, it is my choice. Btw, congratulations on the support provided to you by Mr. Brown & his organizations.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenHolbert
I give you credit for posting on the forum. I sent the Gov an email expressing my disgust with his decision wrt Nathan Dunlap's planned execution. Even with my address, phone # and email, no reponse. So, I do appreciate your dialog & participation.
Personally, I could give a crap less how much personal money SenHolbert has donated. What I do give a crap about is how hard he fights for our 2a rights. SenHolbert is probably one of our biggest allies. With all the antis out there "representing" us, you are worried about how much Holbert donates out of pocket, please..Quote:
Originally Posted by coloccw
The things you will donate to and sacrafice luxuries is a better gague of what someone actually believes in rather than just redirecting contributions or lip service. Anyone can SAY they support something. Not everyone actually DOES anything though.Quote:
Originally Posted by hurley842002
Pro 2a personal donations wouldn't hurt my opinion of an elected official by any means, but when you've got so many on Bloomberg's teet, I'm really more concerned with officials introducing/sponsoring and voting appropriately on pro 2a bills, and that SenHolbert has done.Quote:
Originally Posted by coloccw
I don't think we need a Republican majority to uphold the Constitution. Can't these Dims be convinced that they are holding the wrong position on this matter? Maybe they can be shown the Colorado version of the second amendment. Article 13 section 2 if I recall correctly.
But RMGO has got my money and will continue to do so. But I'm just not seeing the results.
And I know how our form of Government works. I probably know better than some of the people holding office. I just think its weird that the politicians think we are stupid and don't think we see that there is nothing going on. Assumption is the mother of all fuckups.
Sen Holbert is living proof that someone listens to Dudley. Who do you think brought him here? Everyone on the board has the ear of a senator. He probably doesn't give a hoot about your guns, but he wouldn't be here if he wasn't trying to court you/us. So he's here, throw ideas at him, he'll tell you what is possible, and occasionally he'll post about something he's doing so you can get on board and support it. This probably isn't a very common relationship opportunity. Let's not screw it up.
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by foxtrot
Huh ???Quote:
Originally Posted by foxtrot
Good advice. Thank you Senator for all that you do.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Huh?
"He probably doesn't give a hoot about your guns…"? Um, no. I care about my guns and yours. The Second Amendment is our defense against tyranny and I will not compromise on that fact.
"…he wouldn't be here if he wasn't trying to court you/us"? Nope. I came here in 2012 because I enjoy teaching others about the Colorado legislative process and we (all of us) were facing the most aggressive legislative effort against the Second Amendment that has ever occurred here in Colorado.
Aside from the extensive "Effective Advocacy 101" posts that I offer at my Facebook page, I also look for opportunities to teach/speak to grassroots advocacy groups about the Colorado legislative process. One example, which occurred about the same time that I started posting here, was the January 2013 "Guns Across America" rally at the Colorado Capitol. The photo that I use here is from that rally. While you won't see me in the video, you can hear the entire speech here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0qYp9BNqpc
As for courting you, please consider that if you don't live in Colorado House District 44 (Parker and Lone Tree) or now Senate District 30 (northern and western Douglas County), then you can't vote for me. I just won my race to move from the state House to the state Senate and won't have to run for that seat for four years. I haven't and won't ask anyone here for money and you can't vote for me, at least in SD30, unless you live here four years from now.
For everyone who is following this thread, please consider the difference between the 535 voting members of Congress and the 100 members of the Colorado General Assembly. While we have little access to those who serve in our federal legislature, that is not true about those of us who serve in the state legislature. The common criticism that politicians are in it for the "money and power" rings true… until one discovers how little money and power there actually IS in the state legislature. As I mentioned before, my GROSS salary for this position is $35,000 per year. As for power, I get to introduce five bills per year and I get to vote "Yes" or "No" a lot between January and May. Otherwise, I have no power to do anything.
I'm here because I want to be here. I'm a gunnie and I love teaching about the Colorado legislative process. I spend a lot more time teaching over at Facebook, but I've tried to check in here to be of help. That's it. Nothing more complicated than that.
Ya know gang I almost stopped this crap yesterday. Come back today and it went full retard. Good, bad, right or wrong Dudley and Chris are members here. These attacks on people will stop. just because they are in the public eye does NOT mean that they are fair game. members are members and ALL will be treated by the rules.
Just like Foxtrot said: why don't you attack me - if you've got the cahones. I will leave this open for now.
He's not my rep, but deserves & gets my support. How much $$ is a moot point, when you consider he is a board member under His Own name. Willing to do that especially on a GUN Forum deserves everyone's support.
Regarding RMGO, do what you want. We're suppose to be adults here (sometimes) able to form our own opinion who to, and not to, donate money & time to.
Don't take my post as an attack on you, because it wasn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by SenHolbert
1. My point was to show that even the senator refuses to donate to RMGO with his own money. Why should anyone else?Quote:
Originally Posted by foxtrot
2. I don't give shit to Dudley. Never have and never will. I saw through his BS immediately and refuse to fund his personal account.
3. If you have something personal with me, I'll pm you my address and we can discuss as you see fit.
4. You're "court certified expert firearms witness" bullshit & as a mod on this site should be able to understand this: you are in violation of the following:
Under the full site Terms & Conditions, Prohibited Content includes, but is not limited to Content that, in the sole discretion of Colorado AR-15 Shooters :
- Is patently offensive and promotes racism, bigotry, hatred or physical harm of any kind against any group or individual;
- Harasses or advocates harassment of another person;
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenHolbert
Senator,
Again, I was illustrating that if you're not willing to eat ramen noodle for a week to support RMGO, then why should anyone else? I don't care how much you donate but by you NOT donating implies a fair weather attitude if you are encouraging others to do that. You can't support something only in part. By stating:
"There is no lifetime pension for me. There is no travel budget. There is no office budget. There is no super healthcare plan as there is in Congress. We are prohibited from voting on any measure that would offer financial gain for the member or a member or our immediate family. This is not Congress."
and your measly $35K part time gig does nothing but separate you further from people who bleed everyday for less money than that (or any of the benefits you mentioned either). If RMGO is such a worthwhile organization, then prove to us why, because Dudley can't. Other than that, thank you for contributing and keeping our knowledge on the legislative process up to par.
Senator Holbert,
I would first like to thank you for taking some of your limited time to be a member of this site; OUR site. You've got a lot on your plate so taking time for us means a lot.
Next, I want to apologize on behalf of this site, for the manner in which you've been treated. You, and in fact every member here, deserves better. I hope and expect our membership to behave better in the future.
I would ask that, as time permits, you continue to post here with insight into what our state government is doing for or against us. Additionally, please let us know what we can do to help ourselves.