Entry level AR

So, getting closer to finally getting or building my first AR. For me, "build" would just be purchasing an assembled upper and assembled lower and putting them together. I think I want to have a chrome lined (or newer hi-tech lining) barrel/bore. I've seen a couple that would end up in my price range that have this, and seems like this would be help the barrel/bore last longer. I also like the carry handle, both the wife and I shot the m16 in the air force, and I think she'll enjoy shooting it more if it looks familiar. If I do get one with carry handle, I'll want it removable so I can change things up without needing to replace the upper.

Will mainly be a range plinker, out to about 100 yards max.

I'm looking for somewhere around $650 or so.

Is the chrome lined barrel useful?

Does twist rate make much difference for my use?

I'm just planning on iron sights to start.

Options I've seen watching the deals go by:
1) Bushmaster Patrolmans : chrome lined barrel/bore. carry handle
2) Bushmaster ORC : chrome lined barrel/bore. Not sure if could put a carry handle on, or just go with some pop-up sights.
3) Assemble one from PSA, probably go with the basic assembled lower and the premium upper: think the premium upper is chrome lined, also seen some with some other linings).

Any others I should consider? if so, what do they offer that I'd be missing with any of the above.

Will need BCG and charging handle if buying pre-assembled upper and lower. PSA sometimes offers uppers with BCG and charging handle included.

Wyndahm Weaponery, the old bushmaster....when bushie still cared..

BCM upper $439 - http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M...-urg-m4-16.htm
PSA lower $180 - http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...category/4284/

Total $619. Add another $70 for a rear buis, handguards and a plain jane charging handle (though I'd recommend a BCM gunfighter if the budget allows). I'm sure you could get those items used in the Trading Post for much cheaper if you are patient.

Now you have a high quality AR for an entry level price.

Pm sent you way!

radicalfirearms..... they have a $580 SHOT Show AR Pistol special...

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Originally Posted by wyome

Wyndahm Weaponery, the old bushmaster....when bushie still cared..

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Thanks, a couple very good looking options in the ballpark of my price range.

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Originally Posted by mutt

BCM upper $439 - http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-M...-urg-m4-16.htm
PSA lower $180 - http://palmettostatearmory.com/index...category/4284/

Total $619. Add another $70 for a rear buis, handguards and a plain jane charging handle (though I'd recommend a BCM gunfighter if the budget allows). I'm sure you could get those items used in the Trading Post for much cheaper if you are patient.

Now you have a high quality AR for an entry level price.

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Does one really need a Gunfighter or any other Tactical handle , on an entry level AR? Or or that matter any AR, not running optics? It seem someone laser engraves ANYTHING for a gun and the price tag jumps, considerably.

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Originally Posted by TheBelly

radicalfirearms..... they have a $580 SHOT Show AR Pistol special...

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Not looking to do an ar pistol. Maybe eventually when the AR bug really hits me. For now I'm happy the wife has green-lighted my first one.

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Originally Posted by mutt

Now you have a high quality AR for an entry level price.

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What in particular makes the BCM upper higher quality? AR quality has always baffled me, so many parts look the same from the low end to the high end.

I'm sure I'll later upgrade some of the parts of whatever AR I get (better trigger, ambi controls, charging handle, sights/optics etc)

Saw a few melonite/nitrided barrels, some googling tells me that a lot of people think it's a better option than chrome lined.

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Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo

Does one really need a Gunfighter or any other Tactical handle , on an entry level AR? Or or that matter any AR, not running optics? It seem someone laser engraves ANYTHING for a gun and the price tag jumps, considerably.

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Need? Nope. However if you like to manipulate your charging handle by just pulling the left side of the handle vs the traditional method of using both sides, gunfighter charging handles with their extended latch are far easier to use. They are also built a little beefier to handle stresses traditional charging handles weren't designed for. I will admit I think they are a bit over-priced which is why I tend to wait till they are on sale before I buy. Their $1 sale with purchase of an upper during Christmas was awesome but too bad for the OP that ship has sailed.

If you're suggesting that I only recommended the gunfighter charging handle because of the laser engraving/marketing, you couldn't be any further from the truth. What BCM engraves on the handle is not relevant to me. They can call it whatever they want so long as it works as advertised. Marketing is simply a fact of life when it comes to product promotion. At least BCM sells solid products, I don't think anyone would call their gear substandard, to go with that marketing vs some companies that peddle shit products while putting all their effort into cool marketing.

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Originally Posted by DenverGP

What in particular makes the BCM upper higher quality? AR quality has always baffled me, so many parts look the same from the low end to the high end.

I'm sure I'll later upgrade some of the parts of whatever AR I get (better trigger, ambi controls, charging handle, sights/optics etc)

Saw a few melonite/nitrided barrels, some googling tells me that a lot of people think it's a better option than chrome lined.

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Chrome lined is fine and your barrel will easily last 15k+ rounds. Anything else is just a waste of money for an entry-level AR.

Any of the Palmetto State "Premium" uppers will suit you find and last forever. I've bought a few of them and they each shot less than 1.5 MOA with bulk ammo.

My son is running pretty much a whole palmetto build minus a lower he had and an RRA 2 stage trigger. I wouldn't hesitate to own one.

This kit has Magpul furniture and has everything but a lower I think... It shows a charging handle in the pic, but it isn't listed. So... I would verify before going that route. There's usually always guys on the Colorado Gun Trader facebook page that have lowers well under $100 as well. That would save you some on transfer fees.

AR prices are in the toilet right now so I'd check armslist as well and maybe you can find a good deal on a safe queen.

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Originally Posted by HoneyBadger

Chrome lined is fine and your barrel will easily last 15k+ rounds. Anything else is just a waste of money for an entry-level AR.

Any of the Palmetto State "Premium" uppers will suit you find and last forever. I've bought a few of them and they each shot less than 1.5 MOA with bulk ammo.

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A chrome-moly or melonite will be more accurate and last a long time too. I doubt anyone who is a standard shooter will put 10K + down the bbl. If so, they have already gone from basic / entry to a build of their own.

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Originally Posted by mutt

Need? Nope. However if you like to manipulate your charging handle by just pulling the left side of the handle vs the traditional method of using both sides, gunfighter charging handles with their extended latch are far easier to use. They are also built a little beefier to handle stresses traditional charging handles weren't designed for. I will admit I think they are a bit over-priced which is why I tend to wait till they are on sale before I buy. Their $1 sale with purchase of an upper during Christmas was awesome but too bad for the OP that ship has sailed.

If you're suggesting that I only recommended the gunfighter charging handle because of the laser engraving/marketing, you couldn't be any further from the truth. What BCM engraves on the handle is not relevant to me. They can call it whatever they want so long as it works as advertised. Marketing is simply a fact of life when it comes to product promotion. At least BCM sells solid products, I don't think anyone would call their gear substandard, to go with that marketing vs some companies that peddle shit products while putting all their effort into cool marketing.

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Not at all. I do see / run in to people who point out the "cool engraving" yet fail to tout the benefit of said c/handle. There are shooters who are quick to show off the latest widget they dropped $$ on, again failing to explain why said product is better than one from a low key company.

Years ago whrn J&T dist offered their AR kits less lower receiver i used them numerous times. Local shooters who were running ABC, couldn't understand why i'd buy from an unknown (to them) dist who used wilson bbl's over the ABC. Till they shot mine. Then it was oh wow you saved how much ??

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Originally Posted by Big John

My son is running pretty much a whole palmetto build minus a lower he had and an RRA 2 stage trigger. I wouldn't hesitate to own one.

This kit has Magpul furniture and has everything but a lower I think... It shows a charging handle in the pic, but it isn't listed. So... I would verify before going that route. There's usually always guys on the Colorado Gun Trader facebook page that have lowers well under $100 as well. That would save you some on transfer fees.

AR prices are in the toilet right now so I'd check armslist as well and maybe you can find a good deal on a safe queen.

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The PSA link Big John posted is just about perfect for your needs (from what I can tell). You can get a lower for $50 from PSA with your upper and have an AR for $550

ETA: I should also mention that if it doesn't come with a CH (that would be kind of weird... I think they just forgot to include it) then you can find one for less than $30.

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Originally Posted by mutt

Need? Nope. However if you like to manipulate your charging handle by just pulling the left side of the handle vs the traditional method of using both sides, gunfighter charging handles with their extended latch are far easier to use. They are also built a little beefier to handle stresses traditional charging handles weren't designed for. I will admit I think they are a bit over-priced which is why I tend to wait till they are on sale before I buy. Their $1 sale with purchase of an upper during Christmas was awesome but too bad for the OP that ship has sailed.

If you're suggesting that I only recommended the gunfighter charging handle because of the laser engraving/marketing, you couldn't be any further from the truth. What BCM engraves on the handle is not relevant to me. They can call it whatever they want so long as it works as advertised. Marketing is simply a fact of life when it comes to product promotion. At least BCM sells solid products, I don't think anyone would call their gear substandard, to go with that marketing vs some companies that peddle shit products while putting all their effort into cool marketing.

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You can also add an extended charging lever to an existing for $10.

I only point this out for the new guy and am not getting into the pissing match[handbags]

I just put a BCM on one of my AR's in hope of my form one coming in soon and happily having my gun not cycle.[Hyper]

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Originally Posted by DenverGP

What in particular makes the BCM upper higher quality? AR quality has always baffled me, so many parts look the same from the low end to the high end.

I'm sure I'll later upgrade some of the parts of whatever AR I get (better trigger, ambi controls, charging handle, sights/optics etc)

Saw a few melonite/nitrided barrels, some googling tells me that a lot of people think it's a better option than chrome lined.

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It's the QA that separates AR manufacturers. QA processes that ensure products shipped to a customer always meet a certain standard (materials, assembly, function) costs money. Unfortunately ARs all do look the same externally so it's hard to tell the mediocre from the high quality manufacturers. Most differences are under the skin so to speak. The likes of DD, BCM, Colt, to name a few, are considered to be some of the best of the mass produced manufacturers. They've built a reputation for quality over time. There are better ARs but they tend to cost considerably more since they fall into the SPR/boutique realm. Fortunately, due to the market, you can buy a quality AR for close to the same price as an unknown. That should be taken advantage of while the opportunity presents itself.

As for the barrel thing - chrome lined is the old school standard. Nothing wrong with a quality melonite barrel so long as it was a quality barrel to begin with. Meloniting a crap barrel still means you have a crap barrel. Same logic applies to chrome barrels.

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Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo

Not at all. I do see / run in to people who point out the "cool engraving" yet fail to tout the benefit of said c/handle. There are shooters who are quick to show off the latest widget they dropped $$ on, again failing to explain why said product is better than one from a low key company.

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Agreed. Many just buy things because some industry celebrity pimps it.

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Originally Posted by Big John

You can also add an extended charging lever to an existing for $10.

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You are correct and there's really nothing wrong with going that route. Personally I wouldn't do that and would rather have a beefed up handle designed to take the stress induced by using a charging handle "wrong". However I'd be the first to admit I've never seen a standard charging handle fail from that kind of use. I guess the price premium of a gunfighter (when it's on sale) is just cheap insurance for me.

In all honesty a new AR owner is probably best served with a standard charging handle until he can run the gun and decide what gear best suits his needs.

I've got that PSA kit that Big John linked bookmarked. Looks like a pretty good starting point.

Using the PSA sales, just be patient, you can put a complete lower (BlackHawk edition) barreleled mid-length upper (standard not PTAC) and standard BCG (also not PTAC) plus a MagPul MBUS gen 2 rear sight (from the trading post) all for under $500 under $600 with a Vortex StrikeFire rot dot optic.
. That was last spring to early summer. Their prices are all still in the same range, so you should still be able to build (put together) an AR for the same amount of cash out lay, you just have to catch their sales. Heck PSA evan has Valentine's day sales and specials.

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Originally Posted by DenverGP

What in particular makes the BCM upper higher quality? AR quality has always baffled me, so many parts look the same from the low end to the high end.

I'm sure I'll later upgrade some of the parts of whatever AR I get (better trigger, ambi controls, charging handle, sights/optics etc)

Saw a few melonite/nitrided barrels, some googling tells me that a lot of people think it's a better option than chrome lined.

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it's not that there is anything wrong with a home built gun. nothing wrong at all, in fact. I do it at least once every other month or so.

what a factory built gun can offer is fit and finish of teh final product.

I'll also keep a close eye on any deals from Winham, those look really nice to me.

Now I'll see how long I can wait for the deals to show up.

Just saw this deal, looks like right at $500 shipped when paying by credit card:
http://www.kygunco.com/kgc-ar-15-rif...on-stock-81426

Melonite coated barrel, 9130 Super Steel Magnetic Particle Tested Bolt (whatever that means), Looks like a decent gun, some comments seem to suggest it's basically the same gun as the bushmaster XM-15 (made by Xtreme Machining in Drifting, PA, USA.)

I'd assemble a lower with a roll mark that you like and get a BCM upper for it. You'll pay a little more, but QC is worth it to me.

I have most of the tools you'd need to assemble your own upper, and I don't mind loaning them out if you want to try to build your own.


Get an Aero stripped lower, a stag lpk, a BCM stripped upper, barrel, and BCG, along with ALG Defense lightweight rail, and you'll have a very affordable rifle that will likely outlast you. Throw on an aimpoint patrol, and you've golden.

I admit, I'm an AR snob. The only thing remaining from my Rock River ARs is the lowers, and an upper that was stripped and converted to .22LR..--everything else is DD. The RRAs ran okay, but there were a lot of little details I didn't like. As was mentioned earlier, the higher cost is usually due to higher QC costs.

If its out of your budget, I understand, I'm not gonna put down anyone else's blaster. The great thing is that its pretty trivial to upgrade them if you decide you want something a little different. The hardest things to overcome I found so far are overtorqued flash hiders and barrel nuts.

my two cents..

use a mid length gas system.. the gun shoots a lot smoother..

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Originally Posted by tim-adams

my two cents..

use a mid length gas system.. the gun shoots a lot smoother..

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I can only speak for my BCM middy, but I could never tell a difference between it and carbine length AR's, and I even had a muzzle device that should have assisted with what little recoil the AR had.

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Originally Posted by hurley842002

I can only speak for my BCM middy, but I could never tell a difference between it and carbine length AR's, and I even had a muzzle device that should have assisted with what little recoil the AR had.

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Likewise.

My buddy and I both bought the Bushmaster ORC and are very pleased with it's performance. There is a $50 rebate until the 24th so If you pick one up on Gunbroker or PSA for mid 5's you should be in the sub 500 range. I think PSA had them for $500 yesterday but they sold out immediately.Attachment 55077 This is my first shots at 100 yards with cheap FMJ's and a 3x-9x Burris.

what I have noticed, I had two AR's on the range a spikes carbine and my adams arms mid-length doing mag for mag switching.

the impluse to the rear did not change, neither really had much.

it was in the jump of the rifle.
the spikes seemed to want to jump sidewise and a bit, I suspect this is because the bolt is moving under more pressure.
my AA mid length I don't feel that jump, and My follow up shots come much faster..