Next week: Rem 700! But question...

So I've been saving for some time and have finally come to that point, time to get my Remington 700 SPS and finally have my hunting/SWS rifle. I plan on mounting a Leopold Mk AR Mod 0 scope on it, but I've reached a slight stoppage... I'd like to add a picatinny rail to the rifle so that one scope can accommodate multiple rifles depending on what I'm in the mood to shoot (as I'd like to get a .308 AR in the future- I'm aware of the issue of re-zeroing). Problem is, I don't currently have the tools or facility to do any kind of drilling if that's what is required to mount the rail. Can this be done without drilling? Or would I need to contact a gunsmith? Or should I skip this idea altogether and just use standard scope rings?
Thanks!

Get a 0 MOA scope base. Get a 20 MOA one-piece mount for the scope. Seeing as most ARs have a 0 MOA top rail, AND yo uintend to use the same scope on multiple guns, this gets you a 20 MOA rise regardless.

To get the repeatability that you're desiring, be prepared to spend a decent chunk of change to get a mount that has the repeatability when the scope travels between guns.

Concept works in theory , in practice there will be scope height issues . It will either be too high for the bolt gun or too low for the AR and more than likely the will be eye relief problems as well . Works OK going between bolt guns with similar stock setups but is still a pain in the ass .

The receiver is already drilled and taped for a scope base from the factory . You'd be better served now getting rid of the shity injection molded stock than planning on moving the scope around .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by C Ward

The receiver is already drilled and taped for a scope base from the factory . You'd be better served now getting rid of the shity injection molded stock than planning on moving the scope around .

---

hate you hi-jack, but why ditch the synthetic stock? I was looking at the Rem 700 Varmit, should I consider the VLS instead due to wood stock?

I'd have to see a picture , the SPS's are the value line stuff with an injection molded plastic stock with no structure to it and flexes when shot with a sling or from a bipod .

If the varmit line still has a fiberglass stock with a bedding block your fine . Nothing wrong with properly constructed synthetic stocks .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by C Ward

Concept works in theory , in practice there will be scope height issues . It will either be too high for the bolt gun or too low for the AR and more than likely the will be eye relief problems as well . Works OK going between bolt guns with similar stock setups but is still a pain in the ass .

The receiver is already drilled and taped for a scope base from the factory . You'd be better served now getting rid of the shity injection molded stock than planning on moving the scope around .

---

All the guns that I move scopes around on have adjustable cheek pieces. Since I use only the one scope, I just set the comb height and leave it set.

I'm not worried about the height over from the bolt gun's perspective. There are some good chassis systems that have a higher-than-normal looking requirement for the scope, ex: strike 30 chassis, tac21 chassis.....

Ive never experienced any issues with having a higher optics mounting. My experience is more limited compared to yours. If you have experience with the pros/cons of a really high optics mounting, I would love to hear the effects (I don't want to reinvent the wheel)....

Play with height over bore on a ballistics program , it can induce problems because the angle between the bore and scope is bigger . Always better to be as close to the bore as possible .

I have a 700 varmint. The original stock flexes. I can post pics of its insides later

Anyone know if that new Magpul Hunter 700 stock is worth it? I love how it looks, and usually they put out some quality stuff... I may just buy it regardless, before some asshole democrat decides they need to ban it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by C Ward

Concept works in theory , in practice there will be scope height issues . It will either be too high for the bolt gun or too low for the AR and more than likely the will be eye relief problems as well . Works OK going between bolt guns with similar stock setups but is still a pain in the ass .

The receiver is already drilled and taped for a scope base from the factory . You'd be better served now getting rid of the shity injection molded stock than planning on moving the scope around .

---

Looking at it, it appears that way. So basically I should just do a normal mount with the scope rings? Seeing as how the Mk AR isn't that expensive, I don't see an issue of having to buy a new one to permanently mount on the AR, or even go with something different.

Thanks all for the input. Seeing as how I'm not terribly familiar with bolt guns I thought I was ahead of the curve and could get away with a new way to skin this cat.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronin13

Anyone know if that new Magpul Hunter 700 stock is worth it?

---

I think it will be a good stock. Haven't seen one in person but Magpul usually rocks. The price-point is good too. They have an option for mags and magwell. I think they will sell a ton of these. I would put my name down on one before they go "back-order" crazy. There are tons of great stock options for R700, but they get expensive fast! Ask me how I know? XLR Element is a great option too; they are in Grand Junction and colorado_hack is a dealer here on the board.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronin13

So basically I should just do a normal mount with the scope rings?

---

Take a look at these mounts, quality stuff and not super pricey. http://www.seekinsprecision.com/part...ope-bases.html

Be careful, there is no known cure for long range rifle sickness...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronin13

Anyone know if that new Magpul Hunter 700 stock is worth it? I love how it looks, and usually they put out some quality stuff... I may just buy it regardless, before some asshole democrat decides they need to ban it.

---

I got to play with one at shot, it was pretty sweet for a budget stock. Just so you know the DBM and mags will be sold separately, so it'll end up around the $400 mark in the end.

Crappy photo time!

Here are the inner workings of a factory 700 Varmint stock. Your typical injected polymer stock. With a bipod and the heavy barrel it definitely flexes.

Attachment 57005
Attachment 57007
Attachment 57009
Attachment 57011

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by C Ward

Play with height over bore on a ballistics program , it can induce problems because the angle between the bore and scope is bigger . Always better to be as close to the bore as possible .

---

I think the program can do the math to figure it out and spit out an answer that gives an educated start point. It still needs refinement and verification, though.

I used a 1.0" and a 3" height. That being said, I noticed that they were different. I can't say that either was a problem without verification. Smarter folks than me say that it doesn't matter that much, as long as the measurement that gets put into the "confuser" is accurate.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Delfuego

I think it will be a good stock. Haven't seen one in person but Magpul usually rocks. The price-point is good too. They have an option for mags and magwell. I think they will sell a ton of these. I would put my name down on one before they go "back-order" crazy. There are tons of great stock options for R700, but they get expensive fast! Ask me how I know? XLR Element is a great option too; they are in Grand Junction and colorado_hack is a dealer here on the board.

Take a look at these mounts, quality stuff and not super pricey. http://www.seekinsprecision.com/part...ope-bases.html

Be careful, there is no known cure for long range rifle sickness...

---

I was planning on there being no cure! [Sniper]
I looked at getting into a B&C M40 stock down the road: http://www.redhawkrifles.com/product...40-stock-black
I looked at getting a Leupold mount system with the PRW rings... all in all, the entire mounting system for under $75 at Cabela's, not a bad deal, considering they're selling the rifle for under $650. A sub $1500 system all said and done? I'm stoked, and it's easier to not feel guilty explaining the screaming deal to the GF. [Coffee]

I would recommend a 20MOA base and standard rings over a mounting "system". It works better and will allow you more options.
Find which ammo your new rifle likes, then save for a nice piece of glass.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheBelly

I think the program can do the math to figure it out and spit out an answer that gives an educated start point. It still needs refinement and verification, though.

I used a 1.0" and a 3" height. That being said, I noticed that they were different. I can't say that either was a problem without verification. Smarter folks than me say that it doesn't matter that much, as long as the measurement that gets put into the "confuser" is accurate.

---

The issue comes with an error in the scope height measurement , really easy to make especially on AR's . The closer to the bore the scope is to the bore is the smaller the induced error is . Also don't buy in to the anything within a 1/4 inch on scope height measurement is GTG . With accurate inputs my ballistics program is spot on no need to fiddle with the numbers to match the actual bullet path like Horus has everybody believing with there ATRAG junk .



The Magpul stock should be a solid product , I haven't seen it yet , the two people that were heavily involved with the design are both from a Marine sniper background and very good shooters . I would get the AICS adaptor for it because of those mags taking a longer OAL cartridge , not an issue if you shoot nothing but factory ammo but important with handloads .

The PRW rings are OK but I've seen them having issues with the cross bolts breaking and shifting zero's . The economy solution for scope mounting is an EGW base with Burris XTR rings . The Seekins mounts mentioned earlier are solid and worth the money .

I am in no way an optics and mount snob, but moving a ~$300 optic between a bolt gun and and AR just seems silly to me. You are going to have to put that much in your mount to get the RTZ you want. If you go with a $1000 optic, it starts to make sense a little, otherwise, just stick with an optic per gun path and you will be at the same money anyway.

With that said, you can mount a rail on your 700, Badger, Warne and others make them in 0, 20 MOA and other configurations, no drill needed. Yes, optic as low as you can get it to the bore. Burris XTR rings and Warne Maxima rings are good budget minded rings that you can get for use with or without a rail.

Stocks, Chuck is right, the SPS factory stock is crap. Mine is on the shelf in case I ever want to sell it. My SPS sits in an X-Ray chassis, which is a great budget option. I did play with the MagPul at SHOT, not convinced and I would not put my money on it being widely accepted by precision rifle shooters. For the couch commandos, a cheaper option that will sell like hotcakes and work fine for their 100 yard Youtube videos. The X-ray is proven and about the same price.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ronin13

I was planning on there being no cure! [Sniper]
I looked at getting into a B&C M40 stock down the road: http://www.redhawkrifles.com/product...40-stock-black
I looked at getting a Leupold mount system with the PRW rings... all in all, the entire mounting system for under $75 at Cabela's, not a bad deal, considering they're selling the rifle for under $650. A sub $1500 system all said and done? I'm stoked, and it's easier to not feel guilty explaining the screaming deal to the GF. [Coffee]

---

I found Red Hawk Rifles from gunbroker and thought about buying a custom rifle off the shelf. I just don't know what "lap the lugs" does for a rifle, and I would rather hold/feel it before I purchase.

As for Optics, I would agree with MarkCo - I will just put a set of rings and another $250-$300 scope on it. - I am a "couch commando"
http://www.redhawkrifles.com/product...altarget-rifle

Lapping the lugs is what you do with a case of 1000 rounds getting comfortable with your rig. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MarkCO

Lapping the lugs is what you do with a case of 1000 rounds getting comfortable with your rig. :)

---

I would do that in a weekend if I had the time and money. I'm guessing there are "lugs' inside the action, and repeated use would wear them down. and by "lapping" the lugs they just sand them slightly for the same effect sans 1,000 rounds down the barrel?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by fly boy

I would do that in a weekend if I had the time and money. I'm guessing there are "lugs' inside the action, and repeated use would wear them down. and by "lapping" the lugs they just sand them slightly for the same effect sans 1,000 rounds down the barrel?

---

Pretty much. The Rem 700 has 2 lugs and I have honestly never seen any reason to lap or polish them on nay of my 700s. You could always dry-fire it a thousand times and get the same effect. :)

Would have to see the spec list with what work they are doing . Lapping the lugs by it self isn't going to help much .

Truing the receiver , recuting both the lugs on the bolt and in the receiver to square them to the bolt raceways and squaring the action face with a new chamber that is square and true to the bore is what needs done to see a benefit .

Just lapping the lugs on a stock action and barrel isn't worth the money .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by C Ward

Would have to see the spec list with what work they are doing . Lapping the lugs by it self isn't going to help much .

Truing the receiver , recuting both the lugs on the bolt and in the receiver to square them to the bolt raceways and squaring the action face with a new chamber that is square and true to the bore is what needs done to see a benefit .

Just lapping the lugs on a stock action and barrel isn't worth the money .

---

Remington 700 short action matte black heavy varmint barreled action
We lap the lugs, polish the feed ramps and tune the fire control system
A2 2092 series Bell and Carlson Medalist stock
Choice of 5 stock colors : black, black with gray web, black with red web, tan with black web and green with black web
Full CNC machined aluminum bedding chassis
Vertical Grip
Dual front sling swivel studs
Free floated barrel
BDL hinged floor plate design
26" barrels (1 in 12 twist in 308) are standard : 20" available in 308 (1 in 12 twist) and 223 (1 in 9 twist)
Calibers :204, 223, 22-250, 243 and 308
Base price $920

Yeah, I read that. I am skeptical. Looks like a dealer kit, buy the barreled actions and drop them into B&C stocks. Not saying that is bad, but don't think you are getting a rifle actually built by a skilled smith.

If your gonna spend that kind of money get a 700P or PSS or Police , whatever Remington is calling it nowadays or a 5R .You get everything listed there except somebody wasting their time lapping the lugs and it will be cheaper . Both the 5R's , my first choice , and the PSS's are known performers and come with a fiberglass stock with a bedding block and are typically 1 MOA or better out of the box . Pretty much mount up some optics and get to shooting with either gun . Only thing I'd do would be to replace the trigger with a Shilen and that would be it .

^Yep, except I might choose a different trigger. :)

Shilen is the best bang for the buck going for the 700 . In 10 plus years of field precision rifle match's they are the only aftermarket trigger that has never taken a shit on someone . My 308 is on the 3rd barrel now with a Shilen in it with zero issues . Probably the trigger with the most issues has been Timney, internet wisdom says Jewells are problems but I've only seen one gun have issues . My 260 has a Jewell and is on the 4th barrel and other than readjustment twice no issues .

Everything gear wise I recommend or shit on is from personal experience , its a sample size of me but it's not regurgitated from the internet somewhere .

We've seen a lot of different stuff down at the SRM , this is the 11th year , and have seen what does and doesn't work reliably .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by C Ward

internet wisdom says Jewells are problems but I've only seen one gun have issues .

---

Mikes Jewell took a dump on him at the last CD Team Match. Ended up with an AD & DQ. Bad day.

But yes, Shilen triggers are good for dragging around the country side and getting dirty.

Time will tell how this new Tubb 2-Stage does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by C Ward

If your gonna spend that kind of money get a 700P or PSS or Police , whatever Remington is calling it nowadays or a 5R .You get everything listed there except somebody wasting their time lapping the lugs and it will be cheaper . Both the 5R's , my first choice , and the PSS's are known performers and come with a fiberglass stock with a bedding block and are typically 1 MOA or better out of the box . Pretty much mount up some optics and get to shooting with either gun . Only thing I'd do would be to replace the trigger with a Shilen and that would be it .

---

I do like both the 5r and 700P LTR. The 5r is about $1,100 and the 700p LTR (Fluted 20" barrel) is about $1,000 so very similar pricing to Red Hawk Rifles. My complete MAX with scope is $1200 out the door. Would it be cheaper to find a used action and put it in a Stock?

Don't know if I mentioned it, but THANK YOU for all your assistance.

Cruise the boards and the local shops for used stuff there are deals to be had if you hunt for them or do it in pieces .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hoser

Mikes Jewell took a dump on him at the last CD Team Match. Ended up with an AD & DQ. Bad day.

But yes, Shilen triggers are good for dragging around the country side and getting dirty.

Time will tell how this new Tubb 2-Stage does.

---

Hadn't heard about that , that makes 2 . Did he figure out the failure or just junk it ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by C Ward

Did he figure out the failure or just junk it ?

---

Neither. Old guys and change don't get along.

As info, I had a shilen go down on mine, right before the tbac team challenge, had to scramble to get another trigger in the gun before the match. Basically got to where it would intermittently just not hold the FP when cocked (close bolt and it would just let the pin back down like there was no trigger in the gun) They all have issues from time to time, I've seen timney and factory rem do the exact same thing so about the only ones I haven't heard of a problem with yet is the Huber 2 stage and tubbs new trigger and neither really have the massive numbers on the ground to have the same exposure as the others so as Hoser says, time will tell.

Biggest thing is to just pay attention to it and watch out for issues.

Gotta figure out the why to fix it . The other one I saw fail was set at 1/2 pound and wouldn't cock at all . Mines at 1 pound and never had any issues in the same dirt .

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by C Ward

Gotta figure out the why to fix it . The other one I saw fail was set at 1/2 pound and wouldn't cock at all . Mines at 1 pound and never had any issues in the same dirt .

---

Mine was at 2 lbs , didn't have time to figure out why, just cleaned/lubed with lighter fluid and reinstalled, no joy. So I got a timney as that's what was available on short notice at the time and got the rifle up and running again for the match and haven't revisited it since. It was just a learning experience for me in that its just one more thing on the checklist of things to verify before a match.

Probably shouldn't have to worry about it, but its a mechanical device no matter how you slice it, it can fail, and its the reason we have the safety rules we do at matches, shit happens.


EDIT: just figured out you were talking about Mike's