Heated tile floor

We're looking at new flooring and I'd really like to go with the tiles that look like wood. My wife is a baby and wants heated floors if we go with tile. I looked into it a bit, and it might not be that big of a deal to install. Does anyone have any first hand experience with how much energy it takes, or how effective it is at heating the tile directly adjacent to where the heater is installed. For example, if the heater strip is 1.5 wide and I have a room that is 12 feet across, if I install two strips down the room with the center of each strip being 4 feet from each wall, and 4 feet from each other, will the two strips do a decent job heating the 2.5 feet of flooring between the strips down the center of the room, or will it just feel like strips of heat as you walk across the floor? That kind of info would be very helpful in determining where I could potentially save on material cost (don't need to heat right next to a wall in most cases).

Really, I'm just looking for any kinds of tips regarding something like this. I suppose the very first thing to discuss is the difficulty of the installation, considering I've never even laid a tile floor before. Thanks in advance.

Oh, I think the area I'm looking at is probably just over 500 sq/ft between the kitchen and living room, so I could probably heat a decent area for only an additional couple hundred dollars. While I'm thinking about it, if anyone in the real estate biz has any comments on getting the money back when it comes time to resell, I'm definitely interested in that. Also, if anyone has any input on if such a system could be a potential nightmare for renters or not. I would certainly rent with the understanding that the heated floors are a free benefit, so if it breaks, I'm not going to spend much time trying to fix it.

I realized that I did not specify that I was looking at electric heating. This is an example of what I'm talking about. This is one of the first hits you get after an on-line search for "heated tile floor."
http://www.thermosoft.com/radiant-fl...ermotile-120v/

The diagrams on the site are showing total coverage of a floor, but I'm curious if you could cover only 50% of the floor and get away with it. I'd say that even some spots were warmer than others, as long as the areas in between were still warmer than they would be without a heater at all, you'd still be ahead.

Looks like I answered my own question here:

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For example, in a bathroom, subtract the tub, vanity and toilet areas. In the kitchen, subtract the cabinets, refrigerator, oven, etc. If not heating the whole floor, plan to heat at least the main traffic and living areas where people will be walking, standing or sitting. The heat will only spread 1 to 1.5 inches from the radiant floor heating mat. So, the surface of the unheated floor will be noticeably cold compared to the warm floor. Heating wires spaced more than 3" apart will leave cold spots. On the other hand, wires should not be spaced closer than specificed in the installation manual .

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We have heated floors throughout the house, but they are heated by water tubes under the sub-floor that circulate through our propane furnace. It is the only heat we have besides a wood stove, and it works great! I can't comment on the efficiency of the electric system you linked to, other than the fact that turning electricity into heat is probably the most inefficient use of electricity.

As far as installing tile over a wire mesh, I'd say it's difficult enough just installing tile without having to deal with the unevenness of the mesh addition. I've installed thousands of square feet of tile over the years, but have never done it over a heated electric mesh.

Good luck.

Well, taking some time to re-evaluate the cost to cover decent areas, it doesn't seem as cost effective as I first thought. I wasn't intending anything to replace the furnace, just to keep the wife from constantly complaining about cold floors. I'll probably just skip out on this since she can't even figure out how to use the regular furnace as it is. I don't need her getting stupid with two heating devices at the same time. So moving on, We already have a lot of tile in the house, installed directly onto the concrete pad. How big of a deal is it to remove tile and mortar from concrete? Seems to me that tile over concrete is a pretty rock solid combination. Would it chip right off and leave me a functional surface, or would it be like trying to take the top layer off of the concrete? How strong is the bond between the thinset is my question I guess.

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Originally Posted by Irving

Well, taking some time to re-evaluate the cost to cover decent areas, it doesn't seem as cost effective as I first thought. I wasn't intending anything to replace the furnace, just to keep the wife from constantly complaining about cold floors. I'll probably just skip out on this since she can't even figure out how to use the regular furnace as it is. I don't need her getting stupid with two heating devices at the same time. So moving on, We already have a lot of tile in the house, installed directly onto the concrete pad. How big of a deal is it to remove tile and mortar from concrete? Seems to me that tile over concrete is a pretty rock solid combination. Would it chip right off and leave me a functional surface, or would it be like trying to take the top layer off of the concrete? How strong is the bond between the thinset is my question I guess.

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I've removed tile from concrete while not impossible it's a solid bit of work. You can do it but get some big breaker bars with the flat tip to chip and pry them up and you may even consider a grinder to knock the residue of tile and thin set down once the tile is gone. Get ready to work.

Anything with a switch or dial is a rental issue. So is tile. They get chipped and cracked then you either grab a leftover that youve squirreled away or replace a section with non matching tile.

If you're gearing this up for a rental use vinyl products

Removal of the tile you're going to have to rent an electric hammer and then surface grind it smooth.

I don't mind the tile that is in half the house now, but like most of the stuff in this house, you can tell it is a home job. I don't know if it was done before they invented tile spacers or not, but the grout is as wide as 1" in some place, but probably roughly 3/4" wide over all.

Thanks for the input though guys, we're just sick of the house looking crappy and old. While this isn't a house you'd put granite counter tops into, I'm nearly positive that after everything is all said and done that the value would increase well over the cost to update it. I'll revisit this thread once I decide what to do. I want to steer away from vinyl because that is what we used in the kitchen and it is already not looking so great.

I've personally installed them, I like them. Especially in the bathrooms. Walking in at night on a horribly cold tile floor is frustrating. I run ours all year long, on low heat to just knock the cold off the tiles. The cats like them. :)

Cost to run them is nil, never noticed $. We'll probably also do the kitchen next time we re-do it.

If you follow their layout instructions, there shouldn't be much for hot/cold spots across the tiles. The tile will absorb and distribute the heat pretty well too.

One thing I've been told to do, is add an additional sensor, so if the one goes out, you can just hookup the other one. If you only have one and it fails, you're pulling up tiles and most likely re-doing the whole darn thing.

PM me if you want to see the install or ask questions in person.

It sounds like you use yours the same way I was thinking, just the knock the cold off, as opposed to supplementing your furnace?

I have dabbled in hydronic based heated floors this is a wooden subfloor with the pex tubing running 6 inch ish spacing on the tubing Attachment 58756

Attachment 58757 I hate trying to post pictures from the phone this is the distribution center for the solar heated glycol

That's pretty cool. Did you run a router along the subfloor to allow the pex to be as flush as possble?

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Originally Posted by Irving

It sounds like you use yours the same way I was thinking, just the knock the cold off, as opposed to supplementing your furnace?

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Yep, it could be used as more a primary heat,but I don't think it is efficient. I use it to warm the floors. Which is nice.

I don't even run mine hot, they run at a default of 90 I think and you get 80 on the tile. Loss through tile etc.

We sell that stuff at Home Depot, and it's my understanding that it's mainly just to heat the floor enough so that it's not cold to walk on, not intended as a "heat source" for heating the house.

Now, the hot water systems in the floor with PEX tubing is another matter. I DREAM of having a shop/garage built that way! Those are awesome! Imagine walking in your shop into a cloud of warmth, and everything in there is the same temperature. Tools, vehicles, floor.....you wouldn't even have to have it that warm, say 55-60, and have a supplemental heater to bring it up to working temp when you're in there. Just keep it warm enough to keep the chill off. Or warm enough to heat your whole house that way. Maybe someday.....

and a driveway free of snow... :)

In floor heating is more efficient than most other types. Since the heat evenly rises from a large mass you dont need a circulation fan and if the heated air is exchanged the thermal mass heats it quickly.

However electric is way over priced here due to xcels monopoly. If you look at your bill % 65 of the cost us from xcel tansmitting the power and maintaining the lines. % 35 is from generation of power. Read the solar on my house thread and see how badly xcel tries to sandbag that program.

We did my dads shop in 2002 with pex. A manifold. A salvaged pump and a salvaged spa heater.

Irving,
if your wife hates cold floors, rethink your flooring choice. The flooring material you're considering is pretty damn chilly on the feet.

Cheapest solution:
http://www.bunnyslippers.com/images/...ny-slipper.jpg

Davsel ftw

My wife complains about anything that is under 80 degrees. We only have a few rooms that aren't tile or vinyl now. Either way the carpet is going, at her request. Just need to decide what to install. I like the idea of tile over concrete because I regularly see that combination survive water losses in homes. Seems like a prudent way to go.

The subfloor pex is the sole heating mechanism for the home with solar heaters being the primary energy medium but there is a boiler for back up as well

When we do the floor in the bathroom we are going to install the strip heater. I only need a 90W piece and will put it on a timer for the morning. I have the thermostat set for a bump in the winter time when i get up. Takes the chill off in the bathroom.

As a pro I have got to warn you, particularly since you said your existing tile looks "homey".

1) 500 sf is a LOT of tile to start practicing with.
2) Unless you have a LOT of practice you most likely will not know it's jacked up until it's done. You can only demo a messed up job.
3) The material you spec'd out is on the more expensive end. (See line item 2)
4) If you choose to DIY be sure to check the continuity before, 1/4 and 1/2 way through your tile instal. Then check it before you gout.

Give me a call if you need some help. Forum members get steep discounts.

I haven't forgotten you Bmac. In fact, I was thinking about doing all the demo work first , then calling you for the install.

GOD! My typing is TERRIBLE. Thanks for thinking of me. It's not impossible, and certainly isn't putting man on the moon, but it does take patience, GREAT LAY OUT, and patience. With a medium that has a finite dry time. And when it dries, it dries on EVERYTHING simultaneously, even things you didn't touch!

I let my partner Eric do all the tile, paint and DW finish (Actually,,, He wont let ME do any of those things) because he does a fantastic product (the practice thing)

Even though the demo is the cheapest part, anything I can save to put toward a quality product, and installation will go a long way.