Any DIY water softener suggested brands?

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07-26-2015, 12:01
Ramsker

Any DIY water softener suggested brands?

I'm going to finally look into a water softener. Probably should have done it years ago, but we're going to look at replacing our 10 year old water heater proactively and makes sense to do the water softener with that. Probably won't DIY the water heater (given the changes and complexities with the newer models), but pretty sure I can handle the water softener. Been doing some initial research. For our family of 4 it seems the minimum recommended size is 40,000 grain. Had a friend recommend the Fleck 5600SXT and looking it up seems to have good reviews. The big box stores seem to push Whirlpool and GE. Ratings are ok on those--I'm always a little suspicious of big box stuff though and the warranties aren't close to the Fleck. Any recommendations from the crowd here to consider?

(note: on the water heater, was probably going to look at AO Smith or Bradford White but if you have suggestions there I'd also welcome them. We have a 50 gal GE SmartWater right now which isn't leaking but figure it's probably worth replacing proactively with the Highlands Ranch hard water and 10 years on it)
07-26-2015, 12:32
Wulf202

I wouldn't replace the water heater for fun trouble shoot it first. Buying a spare isn't a terrible idea though. When its running does it crackle like the water is boiling? Im assuming its gas.

There really isnt much complex about a standard water heater. Two pipes a flue and the gas. Thats % 75 of the complexity of the water softener.

Also. You should find where the sprinklers are fed and be sure to install after that. Also leave the hose spigots hard water and or add a seerate soft water spigot. If for example you're washing the car its nice to use soft water but watering the roses is a waste and possibly damaging
07-26-2015, 13:27
Ramsker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulf202

I wouldn't replace the water heater for fun trouble shoot it first. Buying a spare isn't a terrible idea though. When its running does it crackle like the water is boiling? Im assuming its gas.

There really isnt much complex about a standard water heater. Two pipes a flue and the gas. Thats % 75 of the complexity of the water softener.

Also. You should find where the sprinklers are fed and be sure to install after that. Also leave the hose spigots hard water and or add a seerate soft water spigot. If for example you're washing the car its nice to use soft water but watering the roses is a waste and possibly damaging

Water heater is gas. There's nothing really wrong with it at this stage, but it's been operating for 10 years with the hard water and I'm kind of figuring the typical life expectancy isn't too many more years. Have seen a few people we know with units right around 10 - 12 years flood their basements in the last year. Our basement is finished and just got new carpet, so I'm more playing the odds there and being proactive. I "could" wait on that, but seems the smart thing to do.

I need to take a closer look, but I don't know that I'm going to have a good spot to try and hook a softener in after the sprinkler line. With the finished abasement (done before we bought it) I'm not sure there's a viable place to tie it after it that will work based on where the lines run in the ceiling. There's a utility room where the water heater & furnace are and a small utility closet right where the main line comes in. So those are probably the only places for it. I'll scope out the furnace/heater room closer and that might allow a hook in that can go after the sprinklers. Might miss some of the water branches to the house but probably still hit the main ones.
07-26-2015, 14:02
SideShow Bob

I don't Know Squat about water softeners, but as far as water heaters, mine was going on its 11 th year when it took a dump last late winter the day after we got back from a week out of town.
If this would have happened the day we left, we would have came home to an indoor swimming pool / ice skating rink when the water rose enough to extinguish the furnace.
At least install one of those collection pans under your water heater and pipe it to the floor drain in the basement.
07-26-2015, 14:47
Graves

I'm also looking into one and the fleck (5600sxt) also came up. I'm just wondering why pricing for the same unit varies by hundreds of dollars from retailer to retailer.
07-26-2015, 14:47
Irving

I've been in enough flooded basements that the cost of replacing a still working hot water heater every ten years will NEVER exceed the cost of one flooded basement.
07-26-2015, 15:12
Ramsker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irving

I've been in enough flooded basements that the cost of replacing a still working hot water heater every ten years will NEVER exceed the cost of one flooded basement.

That's where I'm at. Money's not a huge concern . . . so I'm thinking the peace of mind of just swapping it out is worth it along with the potential avoidance of a disaster. My wife's sister just went through that. Found out her water heater was leaking and flooding the basement the night before she left for vacation. She walked into the basement and took a few steps on squishy carpet. Looked at her teenage son--who lives in the basement--and said "OMG, the carpet is really wet!". He said "yeah . . . it's been like that for a few days." SMH. That's a whole different story.

Not sure why this didn't occur to me before--sometimes I'm a little slow. We have the wood subfloor in the basement. Looking at where the connection is made for the sprinkler line through an acces panel in the ceiling, it looks like a line could come off the main water line and then just get run under the subfloor and back up in the furnace/heater room and tie into the sprinkler line to put it on it's own, separate line before a softener. Probably above my plumbing ability, but I bet it's easily done by someone who knows what they are doing (probably with Pex). I'll have to get my thoughts together on that one.
07-26-2015, 15:20
Ramsker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graves

I'm also looking into one and the fleck (5600sxt) also came up. I'm just wondering why pricing for the same unit varies by hundreds of dollars from retailer to retailer.

Not sure. I think I saw mention on Amazon that some come with a stainless bypass valve instead of plastic . . . maybe that's part of it? Ans then probably just some variance in markup?
07-26-2015, 16:56
Wulf202

Dunecrazy is a plumber
07-26-2015, 20:19
Irving

I'd rather have water pipes running under the floor than in the ceiling any day of the week.
07-26-2015, 20:38
SideShow Bob

Hey Irving,
is it true, that when making an insurance claim, not to use the word "Flood", but rather use the phrase "Water Damage" ?
07-26-2015, 20:45
Irving

Not that I'm aware of, because either way the insurance company is going to find the origin of the water to see if it is covered by the policy. The company shouldn't expect insureds to use specific wording in order to determine coverage. I often times get sent out on a loss where the person calling in the loss just doesn't do a good job describing what is going on, so the inside person just says, "I'll send someone out to look" and then I get to show up.

So in conclusion, 9 times out of 10 when someone's basement is flooded, they'll call and say "My basement is flooded." Whether or not it is covered depends on how it got flooded. There are employees out there that may make a mistake and shut a claim down prematurely, but a phone call should be all that is needed to at least get someone out there to make sure.
08-10-2015, 10:28
Ramsker

Just as a follow-up . . . I ordered the Fleck 5600 SXT from one of the Amazon-listed distributors. I ordered from them directly, as it ended up being a little cheaper (talked to 2 different suppliers and they both said "it's a little cheaper off our website than Amazon". Not sure when I will actually get it set up, as it's in transit and I want to get the water heater and sprinkler line re-route done before hooking it up anyway. But I will post updates on when it's done and how it works. My guess is I'll have it up and running by the end of the month.
09-03-2015, 21:24
Ramsker

Plumber came yesterday and replaced the water heater (AO Smith) and re-routed the sprinkler line to stay off the water softener. I had built out the bypass plumbing for the softener this weekend and hooked it up last night after the other work was all done. So far, so good . . . no leaks and the soft water is working its way through the house. I'll post updates good/bad as time passes. Was not too hard to install . . . was a good opportunity to learn/improve soldering skills.
06-03-2019, 20:35
Ramsker

Resurrecting my semi-old thread to post an update. The AO Smith water heater just FAILED . . . was in the utility room yesterday working on getting the sprinklers going for the first time this year. Went to turn on the water at the shut-off in there and noticed water in the water heater pan. Stuck my finger in and it was warm. Sucked that out with the Shop Vac and it filled right up again--was not coming from the pressure relief or the top of the tank. I go in that utility room fairly often just to check things, so I think tha tank started to leak pretty recently. I got lucky and caught it before I had a huge & expensive mess on my hands.

Plumber who installed the water heater was back out today with a replacement under warranty. Once we got the "old" heater outside, we removed the anode rod . . . and it was completely gone. Only had the steel wire attached to the hex head. Seems all I read/heard when I was reseraching water softeners was that they extended water heater life by reducing scale. Now that I search more specifically on anode rods and water heaters, it seems water softeners increase the conductivity of the water in the tank and accelerate the anode rod eating away??

Not sure if my water softener needs a little adjustment, but it was set based on the hardness tests I did. At any rate, I wanted to post this to see if any of the plumbing experts had thoughts on the subject and also in the hopes that I can save someone else a little money and potential misery. If you have a water softener . . . you might want to check the anode rod(s) when you do a drain/maintenance. Out side of that, the Fleck 5600 has worked really well.
06-03-2019, 22:04
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramsker

Resurrecting my semi-old thread to post an update. The AO Smith water heater just FAILED . . . was in the utility room yesterday working on getting the sprinklers going for the first time this year. Went to turn on the water at the shut-off in there and noticed water in the water heater pan. Stuck my finger in and it was warm. Sucked that out with the Shop Vac and it filled right up again--was not coming from the pressure relief or the top of the tank. I go in that utility room fairly often just to check things, so I think tha tank started to leak pretty recently. I got lucky and caught it before I had a huge & expensive mess on my hands.

Plumber who installed the water heater was back out today with a replacement under warranty. Once we got the "old" heater outside, we removed the anode rod . . . and it was completely gone. Only had the steel wire attached to the hex head. Seems all I read/heard when I was reseraching water softeners was that they extended water heater life by reducing scale. Now that I search more specifically on anode rods and water heaters, it seems water softeners increase the conductivity of the water in the tank and accelerate the anode rod eating away??

Not sure if my water softener needs a little adjustment, but it was set based on the hardness tests I did. At any rate, I wanted to post this to see if any of the plumbing experts had thoughts on the subject and also in the hopes that I can save someone else a little money and potential misery. If you have a water softener . . . you might want to check the anode rod(s) when you do a drain/maintenance. Out side of that, the Fleck 5600 has worked really well.

what type pellets are you using in the softener?

I got away from the salt and went with potassium chloride .
We buy the ones Costco carries for $15 ish
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Nature-s-Ow...oride/50354200
06-03-2019, 22:09
Ramsker

Quote:

Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo

what type pellets are you using in the softener?

I got away from the salt and went with potassium chloride .
We buy the ones Costco carries for $15 ish
https://www.lowes.com/pd/Nature-s-Ow...oride/50354200

Been using the salt from Sam's Club . . . Morton Pure and Natural Water Softener Crystals.

Is the potassium chloride less conductive than the sodium chloride? Would it eat the anodes less aggressively?