First time canning. Question.

Well we got veggies from the farmers market and have 2 jars of garlic dill pickle spears , 2 of slices , and 2 jars of garlic.

Problem is we were reading as we went and I cranked the lids on before we started boiling. After the 15min boil Realized that was a mistake .

After they cooled a bit and didn't seal I loosened the tops and re tightened barely finger tight this time , and re boiled for 10 min.. That's where I'm at now. Is it all gonna be ok ? Is boiling twice gonna make them mushy or somthin ? How bad did we screw up ? It's been a half hr and they still havnt "popped"

I don't think they pop until after you take them out of the boiling water and let them cool. as they cool they pop.
Just my knowledge which could be wrong,
Roger

Ya tighten then boil. A couple hours later. Pop. You should be safe, but the mush possible.

I've always found that with recipes, you must read first and make sure you have everything required, and understand everything. I can't tell you how many times I would be half through and realize I was missing an ingredient or the right sized lids or vinegar or something.

Sometimes it takes up to 24 hours for jars to 'ping', so it depends on what you're processing. Mushiness is a possibility, but if that happens, take those pickles, chop them up with some onions and garlic and peppers and make yourself some relish, Easy peasy, and no waste! Otherwise, if the processing time for your pickle recipe was ten minutes, you should be okay.

Every canning experience teaches something. Just make sure that you only 'finger tighten' lids and rings, no matter of you are water boiling or pressure canning.

Congrats on starting to can. Isn't much I could add to TheGrey's comments. I'm a little ocd when it comes to canning... brewing... fermenting... etc so I always always have all my stuff laid out and a plan set up. Even then. Things happen.

The reason you are only finger tightening the lids, is you are allowing the air to escape during processing. Think of the two peice lids as a one way valve. Once the lids cool. The lid is allowed via gravity to seal around the jar and the vacuum pulls the lid down on the jar.

I have had to reprocess many a batch. You just go with it and find ways to salvage. (Relish!)

Good luck and you have a lot of folks here to tap for knowledge.

Thanks guys , I re boiled and the lids slowly sucked down without a ping. Anyways hopefully they come out ok.
Now is the tough part , waiting ! I guess we are gonna wait 3 weeks. We'll see.

You may not always hear the ping. The way to make sure that the jars have sealed is to check the lids after a few hours. Press your finger in the center of the lid. If the lid makes a popping sound and it pops back up after you remove you finger, put the jar into the refrigerator and eat the contents within a few days.

Don't reuse the lids anymore- lids that have sealed once may not hold a seal again, or worse yet, may come unsealed after some time. The lids are one-use, unless you're using Tattler lids. Tattlers can be re-used (although the rubber gaskets eventually need to be replaced) and they don't make a popping noise when they seal.

There are "layers of security" that I like to call em.

The seal is just the first layer. When you go to consume the stored food:
- have you followed a proven recipe? (USDA, Ball Blue Book of Canning, etc) Let them take the risk.
- have you stored the jars without the rings cinched down on them? or anything stacked on top of them? (if something is to go the least bit bad it creates gas. gas "un-pops" the lid) anything on top of the jars could create a resistance to that lid. I don't know about you but I want to know if something is going bad in the jar as soon as possible.
- you inspect the seal--is the "button" still down? See the above reason why I check this.
- When you open the jar do you smell it? (does it smell good?) If it smells bad throw it away. It should smell like Canned Food and not off-putting.
- have you reheated the food? (botulism is not in itself toxic. The product it produces is. Heat destroys the toxin.) If everything you did above lets a little bit of bad stuff in, this should be your last layer of defense.
- if you are consuming pickles (high acid) or a high-sugar content food in the jar (you hot water bath can the food) you most likely are opening and eating from the can. Be absolutely sure you follow the sugar to product or acid to product recipe before you can it. Sugar and acid are the "preservative".

Boiling (205/100 degrees) does not kill botulism spores. The acid or high sugar content puts the spores in a "suspended animation" or dormant state so it does not produce toxins to kill you. All of the processing and following the recipes is what actually preserves the food. If you know a little bit about why you are doing what you are doing. The process that you follow comes a little easier. In order to actually KILL the spores you need temperatures around 250 degrees. Hence why ALL recipes for low acid or low sugar foods generally require a pressure canner.


Until we are in a "5HTF" scenario I am not reusing lids ... ever... they are not engineered to be re-used. I can afford the <<$2 for more lids so It is good insurance. Tattler Lids to me are experimental. Plastic is not air tight. Over years it will let oxygen in. I use them on stuff that I go through over the year (stock, tomato sauce, etc) It is just me, but I do not trust them past a year... "5HTF" scenario? I'll do what I can to survive.

EDIT:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TheGrey

You may not always hear the ping. The way to make sure that the jars have sealed is to check the lids after a few hours. Press your finger in the center of the lid. If the lid makes a popping sound and it pops back up after you remove you finger, put the jar into the refrigerator and eat the contents within a few days.

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I have noticed that the "Golden Harvest" lids that I have gotten from Big Lots from time to time do not "ping" as much as the "Kerr" or "Ball" ones that I normally use. Inspect the a few hours after they are processed. If they are not sealed, reprocess or put in fridge.

#$%^&* gotta get me some new glasses. Trying to figure out why a FIRST TIME CARRYING thread was doing here [facepalm]


BTW: Very good information from you folks, thanks

re-canning, your just overcooking - as long as it seals your good...if not, put it in the fridge and try to use it within two weeks should be good. We've re-used lids in a pinch but I'd avoid it too imo why gamble with something that cheap......my wife tells me they still make re-useable lid jars i forget the name, but they use the old school rubber gasket and glass lid iirc. (EDIT_ I just realized I basically said the same thing Grey said......well, there you go - a supporting opinion lol)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rbeau30

There are "layers of security" that I like to call em.

The seal is just the first layer. When you go to consume the stored food:
- have you followed a proven recipe? (USDA, Ball Blue Book of Canning, etc) Let them take the risk.
- have you stored the jars without the rings cinched down on them? or anything stacked on top of them? (if something is to go the least bit bad it creates gas. gas "un-pops" the lid) anything on top of the jars could create a resistance to that lid. I don't know about you but I want to know if something is going bad in the jar as oon as possible.
- you inspect the seal--is the "button" still down? See the above reason why I check this.
- When you open the jar do you smell it? (does it smell good?) If it smells bad throw it away. It should smell like Canned Food and not off-putting.
- have you reheated the food? (botulism is not in itself is not toxic. The product it produces is. Heat destroys the toxin.) If everything you did above lets a little bit of bad stuff in, this should be your last layer of defense.

Until we are in a "5HTF" scenario I am not reusing lids ... ever... they are not engineered to be re-used. I can afford the <<$2 for more lids so It is good insurance. Tattler Lids to me are experimental. Plastic is not air tight. Over years it will let oxygen in. I use them on stuff that I go through over the year (stock, tomato sauce, etc) It is just me, but I do not trust them past a year... "5HTF" scenario? I'll do what I can to survive.

EDIT:


I have noticed that the "Golden Harvest" lids that I have gotten from Big Lots from time to time do not "ping" as much as the "Kerr" or "Ball" ones that I normally use. Inspect the a few hours after they are processed. If they are not sealed, reprocess or put in fridge.

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Smelling the food is a good start, but botulism is like iocaine powder- it's odorless and tasteless. If you see mold in your jars, you can bet that the seal has been broken somehow. You'll also want to check your jars before you begin canning; the tiniest chip in the rim can mean lost food.

I have read on the internet that the amount of heat required for killing possible botulism toxins is the equivalent of boiling the food at a hard boil, for twenty minutes. I can't verify this, but I can check with the various county extension offices and see what they say.

This is an excellent site for safe canning protocols: http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/pu...ions_usda.html

I haven't gone over everything there yet, but what I've read so far makes a lot of sense.

Not to derail this thread, but can you build up a tolerance to botulism like you can to iocaine powder?

^absolutely!^

I have gotten into the habit of doing all of that. From preparing my space before canning to inspecting supplies, to only choosing fresh ingredients, to looking--smelling--reheating when eating the food. I smell the food because if it has gone to the point of moldy or smelling bad, it most definitely has had time for the botulism spores to wake up.

Canning is an art and a science. Folks have done this for decades, and there are very few headlines that go something like..." Prepper Family eats home-canned food and dies of botulism. " And unfortunately I think the media would jump all over something like that. Good thing there is a bit of "leeway" in the proven recipes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Irving

Not to derail this thread, but can you build up a tolerance to botulism like you can to iocaine powder?

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Unfortunately not. I think it has to do with the name: 'botulism' is rather final sounding, while 'iocaine powder' offers a little more hope.

There are some deaths from canning-related botulism, but they are few and far between. Care taken before, during, and after canning will help cut that down to nearly zero. I recall reading about a man that caned some elk meat improperly- he went WAY off recipe and didn't process it long enough, and it made the headlines both back then, and two years after the incident because he still had not fully recovered.

There are some golden rules to follow when canning foods:

-Use the freshest foods available. That doesn't mean that if you bought five bushels of tomatoes, you have to process everything before you go to bed, but plan on getting it done within the next couple of days.

-Don't use chipped jars or re-use lids.

-Cleanliness is the order of the day. Wash those jars and lids, make sure your funnels are clean, and never, ever cut raw meat in the same area (using the same utensils) as cooked meat or fruits and vegetables.

-Never process foods below the times given in the recipes. Remember to add processing times for the altitude as well- for every 1000 feet above sea level, add a minute of processing time. If you didn't notice the time when you began boiling or reaching the proper pressure, err on the side of caution and go a few minutes beyond, rather than below.
-There are certain foods that cannot be processed in a home kitchen. Our consumer products cannot reach the pressures and the heat required to safely can things like dairy products, bacon, refried beans, lard, purees or pumpkin butter, things with cornstarch and/or flour- from what I understand, you take a chance when you can these items because a home canner can't guarantee even heat distribution to kill those pathogens.

-Like rbeau30 stated, don't stack your jars. It can mess with the seal, and you'd have a very unpleasant surprise when you found the jar that had been on the bottom became unsealed over a year ago. Pew!

-Along the same line, don't store the jars upside-down, or in a place where the temperature fluctuates more than a few degrees. Try and keep them in a cool, dark place.

-Rotate your stock. Label your jars with the food item and the date, including the year.

Can anyone else think of more? I know there are more good rules that make it easier...but I'm taking longer and longer blinks.

There is a lot of valuable info coming out in this thread. Thanks TheGrey you are thinking about a lot of things to put in here that I do almost as habit. This type of collaboration and experience sharing is what makes me happy to be a part of this place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rbeau30

There is a lot of valuable info coming out in this thread. Thanks TheGrey you are thinking about a lot of things to put in here that I do almost as habit. This type of collaboration and experience sharing is what makes me happy to be a part of this place.

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Me, too!

Wow ! Thanks everybody. Tons of great info.

Great info from rbeau and TheGrey - Thanks!

Perhaps we can get a bullet list of canning do's, don'ts, and resources like the USDA guide that The Grey linked to in this thread together and have a sticky put up. Canning is a big part of preparedness/self-reliance in my life and I think many who would like to get into canning probably find it overwhelming. It may give them a place to start.

I would encourage new folks to the canning fold, actually visit someone who has done it for many years and even those who have done it for many years see how someone else sets up their workspace, etc. I find that when I brew beer with someone else, I pick up different procedures that I never thought about.

Pickles came out awesome ! Can't wait for the next batch. We also got some stuff from ball called "pickle crisp ", anybody use it before ? I've read just to lower your salt a bit when using it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mercula

Pickles came out awesome ! Can't wait for the next batch. We also got some stuff from ball called "pickle crisp ", anybody use it before ? I've read just to lower your salt a bit when using it.

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I think it is Calcium Chloride. I'm sure it would add some nutritional value.

What I have been using is a handful of Grape Leaves in each batch of my pickles. Although I do the the old fashioned way, I have read that you can put a couple leaves in each jar to help with keeping them crispy.

That's an excellent tip, rbeau30! I've never heard of doing that before.

I've got Pickle Crisp, but I may give grape leaves a shot. Where do you get them?

Does anyone have a spicy pickle recipe they wouldn't mind sharing?

I have three grape vines in my backyard. Practically an endless supply in the summer they grow like crazy. However, cherry tree leaves, black tea leaves, oak leaves, or horseradish leaves (horseradish grows really well in Colorado I was told.) work as well.

It has something to do with enzymes and tannin. I don't think there are many actual studies done on them, but this is what was used to keep veggies crisp back n the day during Lacto-Fermentation, and it is what I use. I used a handful (8 to 10 large) of grape leaves in my 5 gallon crock per batch.

I haven't done any recipes yet that does not call for stuff like grape leaves, but perhaps once I get my recipe a little more established and the fermentation times i'll experiment with it a bit more.

Another thing to consider is you need to chop the blossom-end of the cucumbers off of the cukes. I have read everywhere that the blossom end has enzymes that soften pickles. With a quick pickle recipe like above (using vinegar) I am not sure how ling these enzymes would have to attack the cuke and make it soft, but it is worth a try.

Awesome. Do you soak them in water before you pickle ? Using the vinegar method ?
Also I got the BALL book , and the jar grabber should make things a bit easier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mercula

Awesome. Do you soak them in water before you pickle ? Using the vinegar method ?
Also I got the BALL book , and the jar grabber should make things a bit easier.

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I have like 3 of those things, they are awesome. I don't want to ever be without one.

Using the vinegar method, I have "washed" off the pickles with a vinegar and water solution just like I do all of my veggies before I can them. Vinegar is a natural disinfectant, and it is food safe.

When I ferment my pickles I just rinse them quickly so all of the dirt and grime from the field is off of them. The lactobacillus buggies are what I want, so I don't want to make my veggies sterile before I start them in the fermenting crock. The salt brine is what keeps the bad stuff at bay, so the good bugs can start doing their thing.

The Ball Blue Book of canning is an excellent resource that I use at all times as well as a document put out by the USDA here: http://nchfp.uga.edu/publications/pu...ions_usda.html (Guide #6 has some information on fermented foods and canning them) Ha Ha I had to put my Fermented Food plug in there!