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I'm thinking about making this my new hunting caliber (deer and elk). I don't know anyone that shoots it and the reviews I've read are fairly mixed. People either love it or hate it. I need to find out if it is worth making the change from .308 ot .270 WSM. What do you guys know/ think about it???
I am looking to be persuaded in either direction here.
A long time friend and neighbor swore by it for hunting. Took many critters with it. Ammo seems expensive and I have always preferred 30 cal bullets for big game, especially elk.
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I hunt with a model 70 featherweight in 300wsm. It consistently shoots 1-1.5" groups at 100 yards. It is a great rifle to pack around. I have a few friends that hunt with the 270wsm, and they have taken several deer and elk with them, along with a couple caribou, a moose and black bear. Use good bullets, bonded or solid copper. The caliber is more than capable of taking any game here in the continental US.
I killed a few deer with my browning 270 wsm. Brass is expensive.
It would be fun to play with. Yes, it will be faster, flatter shooting (at hunting distances, it's a pretty minor difference) and have more energy. I'm just not sure it's going to make a huge difference in any category except for ammo price.
I read an article a few years back that studied throat erosion. I was quite a bit higher than non short magnums. They admitted that for the average hunter the gun would still last a lifetime. My lean against them is the extra case diameter usually means less rounds in the magazine. That and the expensive brass. The idea is fantastic, just not needed for what I do.
^^^^ I was hoping someone that has one would tell me to either stick with the standard 270 because the short mag doesn't make a huge difference, OR to go with the short mag because it makes all the difference. I've read that they burn barrels, is this true?!? Or is it something I'd only notice if I put thousands of rounds through it?
I dont know why or what it is, but there seems to be something kind if appealing about the short mag! This appeal is generally where I put my blinders on and don't look at everything objectively. This is where I need you guys to give me info and point me in A direction!!!
One thing that has not been mentioned is ammo availability. A lot of the newer whiz-bang short magnums (the 223 wssm and 243wssm come to mind) are disappearing from shelves and will be harder to get as time goes by. 270 Win, 30-06 & 300 Win Mag are almost always available anywhere you go.
I forgot about the magazine issue. You can put three rounds in the magazine, but it is extremely difficult to close and you will probably damage the top case. The reason I went with the 300 wsm and not a .30-06 or .300WM was trying to find a model 70 in left hand for a fair price. At the time, standard calibers were bringing $1800-2500 for the LH version.
I find the ballistics to run about like a .300 H&H, right between the 06 and the WM. I see your .270wsm bringing a little above a standard .270, but well below the .270 bee. You will be on a short action, which saves about a pound of weight. I have found .300wsm at most stores, followed by 7wsm then .270wsm. The 325wsm seems to be the hardest to find, but not difficult online.
Do you reload?
No... I do not reload.
Either start or stick with a more mainstream caliber like the 308/30-06/270.Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk1
2nd.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoser
That's what I'm looking for! Haha! Thank you!
Do you really need a short action?
Why not stick with one of the "classics", they still kill critters dead like they used too and ammo costs way less and you don't have to worry about availability.
I don't NEED a short action. But I was looking for something different than what I already shoot and The 270 WSM just kind of stuck out to me. Maybe it was the skinny top and fat bottom that got my attention?!? I don't know!
They make the rocking world go round.Quote:
Originally Posted by hawk1
Whoa, paging FXHummel.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoser
I had one, and there's some good points and some bad, So I'll go down the list but first some info about me so you understand a bit more about the why's behind it.
First I HATE anything 30 caliber for hunting, it's a personal thing and not much rational behind it beyond anecdotal incidences. (ie personal impressions, NO real data, although those experiences are vast from 30-30, 308, and 30-06 to the big magnums) There's something to be said for BC in sub 30 cal bullets specifically the 6mm, 6.5mm and 7mm flavors. That said it has nothing to do with why I don't like 30 cal so it's a moot point, lets just leave it at the fact that when I'm buying/building a hunting rifle, it's not going to be anything 30 caliber, so that colors both my purchases and my recommendations a bit, but I won't give a recommendation for something inappropriate in any form.
So I had a nice Browning A-bolt in 270 WSM, shot great, fast, flat, and I wouldn't hesitate to take ANY North American game animal with it (including bear and moose) With proper bullet selection it WILL get it done with a competent man behind the gun. That's the good. It delivers a 140-150gr bullet with a LOT of authority.
Now the Bad:
Ammo is expensive - and sometimes difficult to come by depending on location, that said, I've never seen a point in time when you couldn't walk into any big box sporting store (Cabelas, Sportsmans, Scheels, Gander, etc) and not find ammo on the shelf. I've never had a problem finding brass or bullets for loading if hand-loading is a consideration down the road, but brass is spendy, and you may have to go to a premium brass like Norma, Hornady, or Nosler to get your hands on it.
The barrel was toast inside of 1200 rounds - I burnt it out by my own OCD continually chasing a better load. - That was due to ME and not the gun or chambering, It shot solid MOA groups with multiple factory loadings, and well under with multiple hand loads I had developed. I was chasing speed and more accuracy, it was also the first rifle I truly developed loads for. So it was also sacrificial lamb to my learning experience. But know that if you go into it and use it for target shooting, or other high usage pursuits, it won't last.
Magazine capacity was diminished with a 3 round magazine, that said, for what you should be hunting with it, and if you do your part, it's not an issue.
The rifle itself is still my main big game rifle but it's been re-barreled and chambered in 7-300 WSM which gets me more bullet selections and specifically bullets with better BC.
All said and done, it's a pretty awesome chambering, BUT there's some out there that get you more for the same or less investment. If you choose it because of it's strengths, and for the right uses and reasons, it's pretty jazzy, but you should know those things going into it. It's not something I recommend for just anyone.
Now for a guy looking at a hunting rifle, that's going to get used for hunting and not much more, there's an absolute GLUT of choices most of which will be just fine for your uses. I personally like 7mm's due to the versatility and bullet selection. (7mm-08, 280 rem, 7 WSM or 7 RSAUM, 7mm Rem mag, 7mm STW, etc) Essentially the same choices are all available in 30 cal of some sort, along with some of the newer wizbang ones like the 26 and 28 Nosler, etc. It really boils down to your needs and uses and knowing your own skill set, budget, likes and dislikes, and of course the ever present random good deal found online or at a hole in the wall shop.
The barrel was toast inside of 1200 rounds - I burnt it out by my own OCD continually chasing a better load. - That was due to ME and not the gun or chambering, It shot solid MOA groups with multiple factory loadings, and well under with multiple hand loads I had developed. I was chasing speed and more accuracy, it was also the first rifle I truly developed loads for. So it was also sacrificial lamb to my learning experience. But know that if you go into it and use it for target shooting, or other high usage pursuits, it won't last.
So, if I'm reading your post accurately, I would most likely be Ok with the barrel lasting a substantial length of time if I used it strictly for hunting?!?
Yes it would be fine. 1000+ rounds is a LOT of hunting, just keep in mind you need to be able to practice enough to be both proficient and comfortable with it. If you're comfortable with rifle shooting in general, then it should be just a matter of finding what ammo the particular Rifle likes, zeroing it, and finding out your dope or "come-ups" for the ranges that you anticipate taking game animals at.
There are a couple of factors, cost and reliability are probably the two big ones. The real difference comes from reloading data and shooting heavy bullets. The straight 270 does well with 130 and 140 gr bullets (for both 2700 - 3000 fps) with 52-58 gr of powder. With the 150gr bullets, performance in 270 Win drops off to 2600-2800 fps with about 50 gr of powder.
The 270 WSM will send a 150gr bullet at 2700-2950 fps, with 56-61 grains of powder. 130gr 2900-3200 fps with 61-67 grains of powder. 140gr from 2800-3100 fps with 58-64 grains of powder.
The big daddy 270 Wby will get velocities of 2900-3100 fps for 150gr bullets, using 64-69 grains of powder. 130 gr bullets 3180-3400 using 68-72 grains of powder, and 140gr from 3065-3300fps, using 66-70 grains of powder.
I used the data at http://www.barnesbullets.com/load-data/, using reloader powders to stay consistent. My friend has pointed out that the advantage of 30-06 and 308 cased cartridges is that they were originally designed to feed in machine guns, so you should not have any reliability problems. I think that is true. A 270 Win with 130 grain bullets is very versatile, say a Barnes X, and would probably put almost any animal in North American in the freezer with 1-2 shots. The differences in velocity and ballistics are probably more theoretical than practical: the elk are dead and don't know difference whether shoot with a 270 Win, Wby, or WSM. 270 Win ammo is available almost everywhere.
I don't have a 270 WSM. However there are complaints about feeding issues. Cases and ammo expense, as well as availability can be an issue. But you are also using about 10 grains more powder to pick up 200 fps. a Weatherby uses another 10 grains for again 200 fps. The trade offs will be expense, and burned up cases, as well as recoil. You can extend case life by loading below max, then your magnum cases will last longer. In my opinion the value of a magnum is to use heavy bullets that penetrate better at high speed: the Weatherby argument. For 130 gr and 140 gr the 270 Win is fine. 150gr and above go with a magnum, if you can find one go Weatherby.
Hmm and as to ultimate question going from 308 to 270 WSM, no reason to switch, a 308 does the job just knowing its limitations, same issue compared to 30-06, heavy bullets drop velocity in 308, but lighter rifle and less powder, and recoil.
Just as info the load data you are showing there is conservative to the point of laughable. Probably due to it being centered around Barnes solid copper bullets that sacrifice A LOT of case capacity due to having a much longer bullet as compared to a lead bullet of same weight.
Federal lists their factory loadings at 3060 fps with 150 gr bullets, and 3300 with 130's. I've pushed the 130's past 3400 without pressure issues and the load of choice in my Rifle was a 140gr accubond running at just over 3200.
Right now my 7-300 wsm (same exact case, necked up to 7mm) is pushing 168 gr vld's at 3120.
I've noticed a trend with load data for the wsm's being focused around faster burn rates, (h4350, h4831, RL19, etc) which IMO is a big mistake it burns faster and hotter with a pretty heavily overbore cartridge, and is therefore leaving velocity on the table and being harder on the throat of the barrel. Look to powders that are slower burn rates like h1000 and you'll get higher velocity and better barrel life. You'll also notice you will most likely end up with a charge weight a bit past max in the listed data well before you see signs of pressure.