Denver's #1!!

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03-02-2016, 09:43
Doc45

Denver's #1!!

According to U.S. News and World Reports Denver is the number 1 city in the US to live. Colorado Springs is #5. Unfortunately the "progressive politics" in Denver is one of the reasons, not necessarily the legal pot. Oh well, it sounded good at first. I did have to laugh about the "affordable" housing. There's a home up for sale in my neighborhood that I would love to buy and move into but the price is stupid for my area. I'm sure someone new to Colorado will think it's a deal and grab it but, damn.

http://www.usnews.com/info/blogs/pre...-live-rankings
03-02-2016, 09:48
Gunner

I will respectfully disagree and still plan to leave Denver metro and Colorado. Number 1 my ass

Sent from my Galaxy S7
03-02-2016, 10:14
Dave_L

Yeah, if I had a job opportunity somewhere that afforded me the same style of living, I'd be gone. My concern is the liberal agenda wont stop. It'll eventually spread everywhere.
03-02-2016, 11:11
MAP

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_L

Yeah, if I had a job opportunity somewhere that afforded me the same style of living, I'd be gone. My concern is the liberal agenda wont stop. It'll eventually spread everywhere.

No "safe spaces" for non-progressives.
03-02-2016, 11:11
Skip

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_L

Yeah, if I had a job opportunity somewhere that afforded me the same style of living, I'd be gone. My concern is the liberal agenda wont stop. It'll eventually spread everywhere.

Like locusts. They will destroy Colorado and then move in 30-40 years somewhere new taking their fail with them.

I think we'll see Denver start look a lot like San Francisco. Middle class will be pushed out leaving only those on programs and the super wealthy. Sky-high taxes, cost of living, etc... Denver post has a real estate story on the main page this morning with a video claiming average detached home price is now $378,000. I don't see how working class families can afford that, let alone young people just starting out in life.
03-02-2016, 11:17
Dave

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

Like locusts. They will destroy Colorado and then move in 30-40 years somewhere new taking their fail with them.

I think we'll see Denver start look a lot like San Francisco. Middle class will be pushed out leaving only those on programs and the super wealthy. Sky-high taxes, cost of living, etc... Denver post has a real estate story on the main page this morning with a video claiming average detached home price is now $378,000. I don't see how working class families can afford that, let alone young people just starting out in life.

That's why there's so much new construction in apartments and condos. Though even the rent here is rising just as fast as detached home prices, which concerns me a lot. Better get a job you like in the next year or two, because of we come to resemble San Fran too much we'll get even more illegals and H1B visa types coming in to do the jobs cheaper. Just hope you don't get laid off for one of them to take your position.
03-02-2016, 11:44
fj605

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

Like locusts. They will destroy Colorado and then move in 30-40 years somewhere new taking their fail with them.

I think we'll see Denver start look a lot like San Francisco. Middle class will be pushed out leaving only those on programs and the super wealthy. Sky-high taxes, cost of living, etc... Denver post has a real estate story on the main page this morning with a video claiming average detached home price is now $378,000. I don't see how working class families can afford that, let alone young people just starting out in life.

A lot of people don't have a choice but to figure out how to afford it. Mortgages + costs associated with homeownership are less expensive than rent in several places. That's the reason we bought a house last fall. Our rent was increasing to that breakeven point. Fortunately, we had been good little savers so that we could pull the trigger on a home purchase.
03-02-2016, 12:39
KestrelBike

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

Like locusts. They will destroy Colorado and then move in 30-40 years somewhere new taking their fail with them.

I think we'll see Denver start look a lot like San Francisco. Middle class will be pushed out leaving only those on programs and the super wealthy. Sky-high taxes, cost of living, etc... Denver post has a real estate story on the main page this morning with a video claiming average detached home price is now $378,000. I don't see how working class families can afford that, let alone young people just starting out in life.

(this may invoke some "Duh" replies) I think the system's kind of set up so people basically become wage-slaves when they sign up for mortgages to cover the $400,000 home prices. Makes them quite obedient and indebted to the government (got a bridge to sell to those who don't think the mortgage companies & banks are basically 1st cousins of the fed government) and less likely to start trouble or quit their jobs that are increasingly becoming entrenched in government programs in order to exist via tax-discount programs (women-owned business, "diversified employees" business, located-in-a-warzone [the hood] business, etc).
03-02-2016, 13:24
HoneyBadger

This is just paid advertising. Most big cities have at least one "news" site that will post "TOP 10 REASONS WHY OUR CITY IS THE BEST EVER!!!" articles every few months.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KestrelBike

(this may invoke some "Duh" replies) I think the system's kind of set up so people basically become wage-slaves when they sign up for mortgages to cover the $400,000 home prices. Makes them quite obedient and indebted to the government (got a bridge to sell to those who don't think the mortgage companies & banks are basically 1st cousins of the fed government) and less likely to start trouble or quit their jobs that are increasingly becoming entrenched in government programs in order to exist via tax-discount programs (women-owned business, "diversified employees" business, located-in-a-warzone [the hood] business, etc).

This applies even more to student loan debt, because so many people are convinced to borrow crazy amounts of money to go to school (sometimes for worthless degrees or for stupid reasons like "all my friends are going to this expensive school, so I want to go there too!") and those loans are literally backed by the federal government. People have been sold this giant lie about debt and they are willingly walking right into slavery. I fell for it too when we bought our house in CO. Never again will I be signing a 30yr mortgage or borrowing money for anything but an emergency.
03-02-2016, 13:45
Sackett

We came here from Seattle. Denver is still cheaper.
03-02-2016, 14:21
hatidua

This past weekend I was talking to a neighbor who is a realtor. I asked him how anyone can afford to buy a house in the neighborhood. His response: "buy it 15 or more years ago".
03-02-2016, 14:27
RblDiver

Yeah, the place I just bought cost more than my parents' place, and is quite a bit smaller. Still, for the area it was a pretty darn good buy.
03-02-2016, 14:29
MED

It's my #1 too; my #1 shithole in Colorado.
03-02-2016, 14:56
Skip

Quote:

Originally Posted by KestrelBike

(this may invoke some "Duh" replies) I think the system's kind of set up so people basically become wage-slaves when they sign up for mortgages to cover the $400,000 home prices. Makes them quite obedient and indebted to the government (got a bridge to sell to those who don't think the mortgage companies & banks are basically 1st cousins of the fed government) and less likely to start trouble or quit their jobs that are increasingly becoming entrenched in government programs in order to exist via tax-discount programs (women-owned business, "diversified employees" business, located-in-a-warzone [the hood] business, etc).

I see it going this way too. Not just with mortgages, but school loans, etc... There is a push to get as much present/future value out of people as possible. Another reason the Fed rate is 0% for bank/Wall St while everyone else pays a retail rate for borrowing.

The problem we're going to have is people have no wiggle room so if they do lose a job they can't weather the storm. Another sad reality is multi-generation housing (not by choice). Obamacare is going to take care of that though (gov will seize homes for Medicaid costs).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave

That's why there's so much new construction in apartments and condos. Though even the rent here is rising just as fast as detached home prices, which concerns me a lot. Better get a job you like in the next year or two, because of we come to resemble San Fran too much we'll get even more illegals and H1B visa types coming in to do the jobs cheaper. Just hope you don't get laid off for one of them to take your position.

I call these "stick-built ghettos." My wife and I spent several years in them renting a condo. Long enough to know continuing to rent didn't make sense. A modest two BR in our area costs $1,500+/month. Well over our mortgage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fj605

A lot of people don't have a choice but to figure out how to afford it. Mortgages + costs associated with homeownership are less expensive than rent in several places. That's the reason we bought a house last fall. Our rent was increasing to that breakeven point. Fortunately, we had been good little savers so that we could pull the trigger on a home purchase.

I don't know how you get blood out of a stone. I guess we can become like California where people live on their phantom equity and cash out (re-fi) every few years. I also don't know how younger folks are saving. I had some hard times with hard lessons when I was younger and the cost of living was nowhere near where it is today.

Congrats on buying! It was a hard decision for us but we are very thankful we did it.
03-02-2016, 15:10
Irving

Glad many of you recognize these pitfalls. They are pretty easy to avoid and just not participate. The upside of this, is jobs pay a lot of money and saving money is very easy.
03-02-2016, 15:43
Dave_L

I don't see buying a house as a bad thing assuming you buy right but that's the problem right now. The market is sky high. But if you wait, it may only go higher (along with your rent cost). So what do you do? I would not want to be a first time home buyer right now. The inventory on homes under $300k in my area is non existent.
03-02-2016, 16:11
Irving

There is a lot of social pressure to buy something as big as what everyone else has. People who can manage to shake that off can experience financial freedom everyone else can only dream of.
03-02-2016, 18:53
HoneyBadger

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave_L

I don't see buying a house as a bad thing assuming you buy right but that's the problem right now. The market is sky high. But if you wait, it may only go higher (along with your rent cost). So what do you do? I would not want to be a first time home buyer right now. The inventory on homes under $300k in my area is non existent.

Same rules apply: Buy low, sell high. If you cannot buy low, don't buy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irving

There is a lot of social pressure to buy something as big as what everyone else has. People who can manage to shake that off can experience financial freedom everyone else can only dream of.

And this is why we have such a systemic debt problem. In the 80s and 90s, it was really about "Keeping up with the Jones's" and there is still a lot of that now, but in addition to the material goods obsession, the student loan debt load is effectively enslaving a good portion of an entire generation. It seems like it's 80% of millenials, but it's not. There are thousands of people who graduate college without debt every year - they just aren't vocal about feeling entitled and such because, well, they AREN'T entitled and whiny. That's probably the fundamental reason why they worked hard to graduate without debt.
03-02-2016, 18:56
hatidua

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irving

There is a lot of social pressure to buy something as big as what everyone else has.

Consumption is part of American DNA at this point.

-there's a thread to post a photo of the latest thing you've bought right on this website and that thread gets posted to fairly regularly.
03-02-2016, 18:59
hurley842002

Denver's #1!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatidua

Consumption is part of American DNA at this point.

-there's a thread to post a photo of the latest thing you've bought right on this website and that thread gets posted to fairly regularly.

Truth!

I'm guilty of posting something every 6 months or so, unfortunately I typically have to sell or trade something from my small pre parenthood collection to buy something, not a whole lot of money for toys these days.
03-02-2016, 19:39
Jeffrey Lebowski

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sackett

We came here from Seattle. Denver is still cheaper.

Yep. It was expensive for me moving from WI via SC (excluding historic district in Charleston), but it is still much cheaper than a lot of big cities.
The pay is commensurate with that.

But I completely agree that this is a "story" designed to draw clicks. I won't.
03-02-2016, 20:37
Irving

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatidua

Consumption is part of American DNA at this point.

-there's a thread to post a photo of the latest thing you've bought right on this website and that thread gets posted to fairly regularly.

Don't have to remind me, I was the one that started that thread.
03-02-2016, 20:51
Firehaus

If you own rental real estate your happy. I remind myself every time I'm bitching about traffic!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
03-02-2016, 21:14
hatidua

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irving

Don't have to remind me, I was the one that started that thread.

-oops, sorry about that, I should have done some research [Whacko]
03-02-2016, 21:31
Lex_Luthor

I want to buy. But its a pretty bleak situation right now.
03-02-2016, 21:50
Irving

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatidua

-oops, sorry about that, I should have done some research [Whacko]

No need to apologize, what you said is absolutely true. It's funny because the last time you brought this up, it was in the same context, and also spoken to me. haha.
03-02-2016, 22:40
electronman1729

All this means is more trash moving into colorado
03-02-2016, 22:41
Jamnanc

There is a very good chance the real estate market will bubble in the next year. It will be a fantastic time to buy for those who aren't upgrading.
03-02-2016, 22:45
Irving

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamnanc

There is a very good chance the real estate market will bubble in the next year. It will be a fantastic time to buy for those who aren't upgrading.

I know, I can't wait!
03-03-2016, 12:07
Skip

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamnanc

There is a very good chance the real estate market will bubble in the next year. It will be a fantastic time to buy for those who aren't upgrading.

What I learned in 2007/08 is that they will never let that bubble burst. Think about what it has taken to get prices to recover: TARP, mark-to-market, QE1-I. We've had a Fed rate at ~0% for seven years and now discussion of neg rates (which would encourage banks to hold foreclosures keeping prices up).

I think everything would be turned on end before we see another correction like 2008. There was talk of martial law, tanks on Main St back then if the banks weren't immediately given TARP which was supposed to isolate the "bad things" but was just used to float balance sheets until Obama was elected.
03-06-2016, 16:04
Guylee

I'll probably be buying in the next 1.5-2 years, you guys are really not making me feel great about it.

Being single and having low expectations is definitely helpful, though.
03-06-2016, 16:28
roberth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skip

What I learned in 2007/08 is that they will never let that bubble burst. Think about what it has taken to get prices to recover: TARP, mark-to-market, QE1-I. We've had a Fed rate at ~0% for seven years and now discussion of neg rates (which would encourage banks to hold foreclosures keeping prices up).

I think everything would be turned on end before we see another correction like 2008. There was talk of martial law, tanks on Main St back then if the banks weren't immediately given TARP which was supposed to isolate the "bad things" but was just used to float balance sheets until Obama was elected.

Thank you for remembering the financial pickle the Bush the Younger started and pResident Goatrider continued.

Wall Street, FedRes, and FedGov have themselves all tied up together, none of the three can exist in their current form without the other.
03-06-2016, 17:31
Skip

Quote:

Originally Posted by roberth

Thank you for remembering the financial pickle the Bush the Younger started and pResident Goatrider continued.

Wall Street, FedRes, and FedGov have themselves all tied up together, none of the three can exist in their current form without the other.

I think they would do anything to save that public/private partnership at all costs.
03-06-2016, 17:41
Aloha_Shooter

Just to correct things, Bush didn't start the financial pickle. It was building for a long time. Clinton's whole economic plan depended on the housing bubble letting him grow out of the increased spending and his reenergization of the Community Reinvestment Act spurred along the bad loans. Gingrich went along with it because it played into the fiction of them balancing the budget. I never understood why Greenspan didn't point to his report in the late 1990s decrying irrational exuberance in the financial markets as a defense when people blamed him for the final (but inevitable) crash when the bubble burst.

I blame Bush for a lot (especially the stupid expansion of Daylight Savings Time to please the outdoor grill industry!) but all he did was try to hang on so they could fix things slowly without creating a panic. I would have preferred they accepted the panic for the first couple of years of his presidency in order to spotlight and fix the market but remember he was dealing with PRC provocatism (remember the EP-3 being forced down at Hainan Island just 3 months after he took over), Democrats doing anything could to undermine his administration, and then 9-11.

The corrupt private/public partnership you and Skip rightfully object to has more to do with Goldman-Sachs than any of the politicians themselves and one of the few good arguments for Trump in my mind is that he'd be able to tell Goldman-Sachs to go to hell and pull in economic advisers from other sources.
03-06-2016, 20:37
rondog

If'n I were single, I could be real happy living in a shack attached to a big shop building.....
03-07-2016, 11:28
Skip

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aloha_Shooter

[snip]

The corrupt private/public partnership you and Skip rightfully object to has more to do with Goldman-Sachs than any of the politicians themselves and one of the few good arguments for Trump in my mind is that he'd be able to tell Goldman-Sachs to go to hell and pull in economic advisers from other sources.

Bush/Bernanke facilitated the re-writing of the rules to "socialize" the losses and created too big to fail. It's a precedent that lives on today and has damned the entire economy, this is why rates have been held to 0% for seven years. A healthy economy requires bad companies to fail (natural consequences and all). If a company can never fail, the entire economy must be invested to ensure its survival.

Bush was likely manipulated into that, and I think that's a very good argument given the threats we know were leveled, but he still made the decision to open to the public treasury. I have to assume other nastiness was promised that was never made public.

And the best part was TARP was unable to do what we were told it would do; isolate the toxic assets. The exposure was too great and they knew it at the time. TARP ending up being an injection of value to float balance sheets, nothing more.

So if the centrally-planned economy is invested in making sure certain companies, and the markets in general, succeed, what is the market price of a house when those companies/markets are heavily dependent on the success of housing?

Would that stop me from buying a house right now? Not if the dollars worked for me (rent vs. buy) as a commodity. Would I buy for an investment? Not sure I would right now.