240 gfci breaker troubleshooting help

Have a head scratcher.
Building an electric brew kettle using a 5500 watt hot water heating element.

Built a subpanel and control box that plugs into my dryer outlet. Using a 50 amp gfci spa panel for some don't electrocute myself protection. With a potentiometer controlled solid state relay to control the power into the element.



anyway
fired it up 2 nights ago and ran some water up to a boil everything worked perfectly.

Fast forward to today and I plugged it in and it tripped the breaker immediately. Not the breaker in the main panel but just my gfci. Ohmed out everything have no continuity where it shouldn't be all connections right and tight

I then disconnected all wiring on the outlet side of the breaker and it still trips. Measured 2 hot legs at the wall plug and getting 124.6 and 126.1 volts. Same volt reading on both the ground and neutral.


Is that voltage difference enough to trip the breaker? Any other ideas as to what could be causing the issue?

Check for broken neutral or ground

Did you wire it in properly ? Recheck & retighten all connections, if it worked once, a loose connection at the curly neutral to the neutral bus is likely the problem.
Attachment 64336

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Originally Posted by SideShow Bob

Did you wire it in properly ? Recheck & retighten all connections, if it worked once, a loose connection at the curly neutral to the neutral bus is likely the problem.
Attachment 64336

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Attachment 64337
Triple checked all connections. Line in is all tight. Not using the neutral on the element side so it is terminated.

That is your problem. The load side neutral does not go to the neutral bus. ( From the load side of the breaker.)
Also, if that is a GFCI breaker, it looks like it is missing the curled neutral that should go to the neutral bus. ( See the lower left of the illustration, it appears more of a zig zag.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SideShow Bob

That is your problem. The load side neutral does not go to the neutral bus. ( From the load side of the breaker.)
Also, if that is a GFCI breaker, it looks like it is missing the curled neutral that should go to the neutral bus. ( See the lower left of the illustration, it appears more of a zig zag.)

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the load side neutral is not being used at all. And the curled wire on the breaker Is stretched to make it to the neutral bus

Looks to me that he has the load side neutral capped off at the bottom of the panel. I believe the wire he has going to the neutral buss is the "curled" wire. Might just be a bad GFI breaker.

Attachment 64338Here's my diagram like I said I can take the load side completely out and it still trips. If I pull the curly white from the neutral bus it does not trip

Quote:

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Originally Posted by laportecharlie

Looks to me that he has the load side neutral capped off at the bottom of the panel. I believe the wire he has going to the neutral buss is the "curled" wire. Might just be a bad GFI breaker.

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correct Charlie

have an an email into Home Depot see if they will swap out just the breaker or if I have to take everything apart and send them the entire panel

Is your dryer plug a 3 prong or 4 prong ?

4 prong. But don't need all 4 for my circuit not going to power any 120 volt loads My understanding is I can wire it as it is and still have gfci protection. Which when It worked the other day i verified with the test button.

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Originally Posted by DFBrews

4 prong. But don't need all 4 for my circuit not going to power any 120 volt loads My understanding is I can wire it as it is and still have gfci protection. Which when It worked the other day i verified with the test button.

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You still need the neutral from the plug to the neutral bus in the breaker can. And of course the ground.

Now I'm confused!

My wiring in the first picture is
red and black hot leg go into their respective slots into the breaker
line in green ground goes to ground bus
white neutral goes to neutral bus
curly wire from gfci goes into neutral bus.

This set up with nothing on the load side still trips the breaker immediately.
Going to buy another breaker (at 100 bucks a pop ouch) and see if the problem continues.

If you didn't have the neutral from the dryer plug to the GFCI breaker can, you may have damaged the breaker, or you got a defective breaker.
Homey Depot has a no return policy on electrical parts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SideShow Bob

If you didn't have the neutral from the dryer plug to the GFCI breaker can, you may have damaged the breaker, or you got a defective breaker.
Homey Depot has a no return policy on electrical parts.

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lovely....
its been hooked up like this since I first plugged it in. Will see what Home Depot.com says tomorrow

thanks for the help

So how did things turn out ?

If does not reply soon..... not well?

Haven't heard back from the depot regarding replacement yet

Are you sure the ground and neutral are not bonded in the box? Lift all ground and neutral wires then check continuity between ground and neutral bars.

Edit to add: In the pic it appears there is a screw or something o right side of neutral bar touching can? Hard to tell for sure from pic.

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Originally Posted by Colorado Fatboy

Are you sure the ground and neutral are not bonded in the box? Lift all ground and neutral wires then check continuity between ground and neutral bars.

Edit to add: In the pic it appears there is a screw or something o right side of neutral bar touching can? Hard to tell for sure from pic.

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Isolated and ohmed during initial troubleshooting no continuity anywhere it shouldn't be. And the gold screw top right of the sub panel is not touching the box itself it is isolated with a piece of plastic and is what holds the neutral bar to the box itself on a piece of plastic


kinda want to put it on a different 240 circuit and see if the problem follows meaning I have a problem on my dryer circuit but sadly my stove has a different plug.

The amperage is different but there are the same number of wires and volts to a stove if you need to temp change the plug.

Or use the whip from the stove and wire to your sub panel

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DFBrews

Isolated and ohmed during initial troubleshooting no continuity anywhere it shouldn't be. And the gold screw top right of the sub panel is not touching the box itself it is isolated with a piece of plastic and is what holds the neutral bar to the box itself on a piece of plastic


kinda want to put it on a different 240 circuit and see if the problem follows meaning I have a problem on my dryer circuit but sadly my stove has a different plug.

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Why not just hook it up directly to your main panel board to test the breaker? That would tell you if it's a bad breaker or a wiring issue.

Sounds like a bad breaker, in my experience GFI breakers fail far more often than a standard breaker.

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Originally Posted by Colorado Fatboy

Why not just hook it up directly to your main panel board to test the breaker? That would tell you if it's a bad breaker or a wiring issue.

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in apartment with no real access to my panel

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thedave1164

Sounds like a bad breaker, in my experience GFI breakers fail far more often than a standard breaker.

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Update on this bit the bullet and bought another breaker at the despot today. Unit is working again!

now I need to see what Home Depot is going to do about replacing the original one .


Attachment 64384D

Attachment 64385

Nice. What contoller is that, and what display?

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Originally Posted by Erni

Nice. What contoller is that, and what display?

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Controller is very simple potentiometer controlled ssvr relay the display is a bayite multifunction led display in a square box from the depot 50 amp gfci spa subpanel. Nema rated twist lock plugs into a 5500 watt ultra low density element. Should boil 12 gallons of beer quite nicely.