My buddy is going for elk this weekend. I told him he needs to get a 5rd mag (he only has 10rd mags) he seems to think that it's legal for him to use the 10 rd mags if he only loads 5 /10 into it. Is this correct?
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My buddy is going for elk this weekend. I told him he needs to get a 5rd mag (he only has 10rd mags) he seems to think that it's legal for him to use the 10 rd mags if he only loads 5 /10 into it. Is this correct?
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If a DOW Officer is able to get a 6th round in, you're in trouble.
Did Ctrl+F in the Big Game brochure for "magazine". Exact wording:
"If semiautomatic, a maximum of six rounds are allowed in the magazine and chamber combined."
Only other result was regarding carry of firearms when hunting, other than handguns.
By its phrasing, one would think that the present capacity is the issue, not potential capacity. However, I suppose that would be up to the DOW officer to make a judgement call and then let you fight it. Not a fight I'd like to go through.
If he wants to use anything larger, it needs to be blocked so it can only hold 5 rounds plus 1 in the chamber. If you can push a 6th round into the mag it will be trouble.
best solution is to buy a factory 5 round mag. If he doesn't and he gets checked it will be a nice fine and points against his hunting license. Not something I'd mess with over a $25 mag available at most big box stores.
It's a bolt gun (RPR). Seems unclear if that makes a difference. Problem is he doesn't really have the time to pick up another mag. Works late. Leaving tomorrow night, hunting Saturday. I suggested he try the Walmart out by Vail (he is hunting in that area-Driving from Denver) dropping a dowel into his mag is probably the smartest course of action.
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The big game brochure makes no mention of a mag restriction for bolt. It specifically states for semiautomatic, but its phrasing is that "a maximum of six rounds are allowed in the magazine and chamber combined"; there's a substantial difference between that and potential to carry more.
However, does he have time to speak with DOW folks prior to confirm, and get their name, etc. if they say no problem?
I've asked the DOW about this before. The response I got was the mag needed to be blocked or plugged. Just having only 5 in the mag was not acceptable.
Then they need to have their regs writer take a course in phrasing.Quote:
Originally Posted by whitewalrus
Bolt Gun means he can load it up with as many rounds as he wants and be OK.Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverDave
Tell him to drill a screw in the damn thing! It's cheaper than a ticket and he won't have to worry!
It is not vague at all.
centerfire rifles:
C. If semiautomatic, a maximum of six rounds are allowed in magazine and chamber combined.
no mention for bolt action, so no restriction other than caliber size. I figured he was using an AR. So no need to buy a separate mag.
Bu that is vague for semi-auto users, because a 10 round mag w/ 5 rounds+1 in chamber = 6 rounds in magazine, as written is allowed. It doesn't say, "If semiautomatic, a magazine can only accept no more than 5 rounds, and one round allowed in the chamber." or any other combinations of explicitly worded phrasing such that one could conclude a 10 round mag w/ only 5 rounds in it is unacceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper7
I bet a lawyer would have a field day with it if someone read it as simply a 5 round limit and got hemmed up.
I have spoken to DOW about this and have received the same answer from multiple officers and the office. There is no restriction for mag size on a bolt gun. A gas gun must be limited to 5 rounds in the mag. You can use a 30 round mag as long as it has a plug to limit capacity to 5 rounds and not another round more. A wooden dowl in the mag to limit capacity is acceptable. Your buddy may want to call and verify on his own and I can't take responsibility as an officer in a bad mood could interpret in his own words, but this is the results I have came up with based on my conversations. I have a 10 round mag in a Creedmoor bolt gun and have never had an issue during multiple interactions with DOW officers.
along with What Lars said, I have personal experience with a few different DOW officers that will check and make sure a mag or tube is limited to the stated number of rounds. If they can push in a round 1 over the limit in a shotgun or semi auto then you will most likely get a ticket.Quote:
Originally Posted by CavSct1983
i agree with you that it can be interpreted easily to state you can have a larger mag but not put in that many rounds, but based on experience it does in fact need to be plugged or blocked to limit the mag from accepting any more rounds.
It doesn't surprise me. But when it comes to entities like DOW, the only thing that surprises me is when they don't do the dumb. Notice in my first post I wrote, in part, "By its phrasing, one would think that the present capacity is the issue, not potential capacity. However, I suppose that would be up to the DOW officer to make a judgement call and then let you fight it. Not a fight I'd like to go through."Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper7
Yeah, the whole rule seems kinda odd. The levergun I used can hold 14 or 15 rounds of .45 Colt, and two wildlife officers helped me load my deer into my truck. They didn't ask me diddly about the rifle. Ran into a third officer and let him check out my rifle because he liked leverguns, but capacity was never mentioned.
The average person cannot fire a lever or bolt gun very rapidly. The average person can fire a semi-auto very rapidly.Quote:
Originally Posted by rondog
I guess my question would be, why the heck does it matter if someone fires rapidly?Quote:
Originally Posted by newracer
Dumbass fires 20 shots into a herd of elk hoping to hit one.Quote:
Originally Posted by CavSct1983
One can do that same thing with a lever action or bolt, or even 6 quick shots from a semi-auto.Quote:
Originally Posted by newracer
Do you hunt?Quote:
Originally Posted by CavSct1983
Yes, though I haven't done big game in a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
I got checked this year. Was carrying my 308 semi. had a 20 round mag with 4 rounds (didnt know it was 5). He asked me to drop my mag and empty it. Saw there were only 4 rounds and said thanks and good luck.
Fascinating. So they really do abide by their wording, then.Quote:
Originally Posted by drift_g35
Depends on the officer. My Cousin was checked last year. Officer had him drop the mag and clear the weapon. He then emptied and reloaded it, and tried like a SOB to get that 6th round in the mag.
I just spend the $20 and buy a mag to dedicate to hold 5 rounds. I enjoy hunting and wouldn't want to ruin my right to hunt by something stupid as that
It's akin to arresting someone for having a car which *can* go over 20mph in a school zone, even if they *did not* go over 20mph in a school zone, when the regulation put out by DOW clearly does not ban *potential* but *actual* capacity over a certain number of rounds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunner
http://www.denverpost.com/2013/03/23...s-in-colorado/Quote:
“With big game hunting, we have had since the mid-’70s a provision in our big game regulations that did not allow for the use of any magazine that would hold over six rounds,” Hampton said. “So in terms of big game regulations, the new law on magazine limits does not affect big game hunting at all. If someone has used a legal big game firearm from the mid-’70s up to now, that rifle will still be legal. Even before the new law, the magazine had to be limited.
But the wording in the regulations don't say that, do they Mr. Hampton? No, no they don't.
So then you know how many dimbass hunters there are out there.Quote:
Originally Posted by CavSct1983
And your point is?Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
If they do something dumb, then punish them. But it's asinine to limit the potential for a magazine because someone might do something as dumb as fire into an entire herd of elk -- it's akin to the folks who think bolt action rifles are fine but semi-autos are somehow bad; yet, a bolt action in the right hands is devastating. Why not limit it to 2 rounds? What sort of poaching is someone doing where they need 6 insane, flashback addled spray and pray rounds!?
If we are going to limit someone from doing something completely benign because of dumbassery, then we need to ban hunting all together, and guns too.
I mostly lost my point between posts. Regardless of what the rules are, People break them frequently anyway. I think a lot of hunting regulations are like a lot of IDPA rules where it seems to serve the purpose of just making things needlessly more difficult. While it'd be nice to be able to point to regulations specifically created to prevent poaching and draw a direct link to the success of game management, I doubt that the link is very strong.
I was just speculating, I do not know the reason behind the limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by CavSct1983
Also up until recently there wasn't very many bolt action rifles that held more than 5 rounds. With more bolt action rifles available with detachable magazines that hold more than 5 maybe they will change that regulation too and we would get some insight as to why.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CavSct1983
I equate it more along the lines of; requiring a watercraft driver 13-16 years old, which also requires a safety course, to only have access to the learning key (limits speed) in an otherwise faster boat/pwc. The boat/pwc CAN go faster, but not without installing the regular (high capacity) key. That rowboat is only gonna go so fast no matter who's paddling it.
My interpretation is precisely that if SEMI-AUTO, it can only hold 5+1 in the pipe. Pretty simple.
If I recall, there was a case back in the 70s or 80s where some out of state hunter fired multiple rounds into a herd of elk...ended up killing 6 and wounding several more. Not sure if that is related to the law at all, but that is a good enough reason. Only time I ever fired more than 2 rounds at an animal was last years elk. I put 5 of 5 into her as fast as I could run the bolt. It was cold, dusk and snowing and I did not want to track.Quote:
Originally Posted by newracer
^^^This, plus semi autos with mag capacity greater than 5 rds(detachable) started gaining popularity couple decades ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by newracer
Regulation is outdated.
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The regulations are outdated a bit, but are based around fair chase for the game. Same reason muzzle loader season still has heavy regulations on powder, projectiles, optics, etc.
It's still a gentleman's sport that some people take seriously. Not a full battlerattle, tactifools outing.
Besides, if you need more than 6, you shouldn't be hunting.
Some people care more about filling their freezer than some ridiculous notion of "sport" (and some of those folks really count on that meat) -- we aren't Victorian "gentlemen"; please don't lump all hunters in with some ridiculous NRA trope designed to present hunting as something palatable. If people want sport and challenge, they can archery hunt.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderSquirrel
Who said anything about "tactical"?
What about the potential for a mountain lion, angry bear, or for that matter, another human being who decides you "ruined" "their" hunt because you were stalking through and didn't realize they were about to get an animal (or you were about to stumble on their meth lab in the woods, grow operation, etc.).
Who said anything about HAVING more than 6? And, why is 6 a magical number? Why not 3? Why should a person be forced to buy some special, otherwise useless, magazine for a multi-purpose weapon?
What if the animal twitches as you touch off the shot and you need engage while it's running away, lest it otherwise die a horribly slow death? After all, "Only Hits Count, You Can't Miss Fast Enough To Catch Up."
It is what it is. Hunt how you want, with what you want.
If you want to use a 10/20/30 or a drum mag, you can.
Just have your checkbook ready when the man comes around.
Besides, you're allowed a sidearm, with no round limit, for your engagements of mountain lions, bears, other hunters and meth heads.
There was such an incident about 15 years ago, I recall it being the topic of discussion at a hunter ed instructor seminar. The DOW officers matched tags to elk carcasses until the party ran out of tags, then wrote citations for every elk carcass that couldn't be tagged. I forget the total fines from the incident but recall it was quite large.Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkCO