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I will be purchasing a new to me home in about 6 months. In my mind, I have the mentality that baseboard electric heat is junk. Costs an arm and a leg, not efficient at all, and just avoid the house if it has it. My other mindset that baseboard water/boiler is a little bit better as far as costs go, but still not very efficient. Gas forced air is the way to go.
Should I avoid baseboard heat, or consider it? Thanks.
First off electric heat is 100% efficient. Putting the heat where the loss is i.e. exterior walls and windows. Having individual thermostats for each room allows you to turn down the rooms you don't use. The lower level of the heater allows it to more efficiently heat the air in the room.
Having said all that baseband heaters are usually in older homes where insulation lacked to begin with or in additions by inexperienced or cheap owners/builders.
The short answer is a qualified maybe
Thumbs up! That's makes a little more sense. I knew that you could change room temps, but I was under the impression it used a ton of wattage to heat rooms, and since they were at the outside wall edge it would constantly be running drawing power.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf202
so short understanding.... avoid if bad insulation from older home, newer 1995+ it would be good to go??
Your limited what you can put in front of baseboard heat. So depending on your preferred furnishing style it may not work.
Electric heat is efficient only in the sense that 100% of the electricity used is turned into heat. It is also very expensive.
http://homeguides.sfgate.com/electri...per-71384.html
Quote:
As of March 2013, it costs $34.57 to generate one million BTUs of heat using electric baseboard heating, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. This same million BTUs costs $14.39 using an electric heat pump, or $7.33 via a standard gas furnace.
Those numbers are on alot of assumed things. Costs. Efficiency. Ambient temps all play a huge factor. Also the fact that they don't take into account the electric bill that heat pumps and gas furnaces need to circulate said air.Quote:
Originally Posted by davsel
Not to mention equipment costs, emergency break downs. Install. Repair. Retrofit. The mild increased risk of co poisoning to the occupants. There's alot to weigh
For example my uncles place is in the cheapest electric prices in the country. 1/7th of what we pay here.
If you want a generic rule sure but everything has grey areas. Older homes can be updated with insulation materials.Quote:
Originally Posted by fly boy
The cost of going to a boiler can be offset if your current domestic hot water heater is getting up in age and will need replaced in the future.
gas forced air is the least efficient of what you described. the numbers posted dont list a gas fired boiler. It takes a lot less btus to heat up air than water. moving the btus from a to b is where water shines.
forced is common because it is cheap to install. convection baseboard is a step up from forced air
true radiators and radiant floors is the most efficient heating option available. and a well designed system is amazing.
All I can tell you is that I once rented a house near Denver for a few years that had electric baseboard heating only and the electric bill during the winter months was outrageous, and the heat distribution sucked.
The house was built in the 70's, and luckily had a wood burning fireplace with an insert. I burned a lot of wood to help reduce the electric bill and warm up the house.
THIS is my fear. A huge electric bill. Some of the houses are build in 70/80's and have base board electric heat. That is my concern. I have only seen 1 so far that listed base board was with a boiler. Most of the ones I'm looking at are forced air, but some of the nicer house build in mid 80's have base board electric, so I just close out the tab and don't look at the house any more.Quote:
Originally Posted by SideShow Bob
So 70/80's house with base board electric heat, I will expect a high electric bill in the winter?
my place was built in 1902, 1t's 800 sq feet apartment. I have nobody upstairs and a max of r-17 (as low as r-5 in some areas, that's one interior wall worth of insulation) in any direction other than my next door neighbor. All electric, my bill was $78 last month. It's as low as $30 when I don't use HVAC in the spring and fall.
I have seen over the years of working on electric only heated places bills in mid winter 50-100 typical but up to 250 a month in greeley. The variable here was the users, not the structure or equipment. Although this month the meter reader has screwed up and had me dealing with a ton of extremely high bills with no logical reason.
Want to try it yourself? Go to wal mart and buy the oil filled 110v space heaters at $33 per, try it for a month in your place with your usage. 110v is slightly less effecient than the 220v heaters you'd have in those houses. Just put one in each exterior room and turn down the thermostat for the central unit. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Oil-Filled-Heater/53017084
Personally if I were looking for a house I would only get one with gas forced air AND a wood stove, and keep several of the above heaters on hand along with spending money and time dealing with insulation and air flow as soon as I got the keys, the faster you fix this the sooner you start getting a savings. With a strong preference to unfinished basements so I could access the duct work to correct issues.
Excel used to offer an average use quote, you could call them and give them an address and they would give you an average bill based on the past 3 years broken down by winter/summer. They've stopped this recently but your utility company may offer it? Worth a call.
Also semantics but boilers are for steam heat, not hydronic heat. Those are just hydronic heaters but slang is boiler but it will cause severe damage if it boils.
Keep in mind if the house only has electric and no gas, you will likely have an electric water heater. It gets expensive to keep 40 to 50 gals of water hot 24/7 as well. Gas fired boiler hot water heat is fairly efficient but expensive to install.
I installed my own wood stove for 1200 bucks. Bought a used stove and all new Selkirk chimney products from Home Depot. Cost is 300 bucks a year for wood. I could do it for free by cutting up pallets. I use the forced air gas "fan only" setting to circulate air. Ceiling fans too. With passive solar I could probably lower the cost to $150. Craigs free wood sometimes.
The biggest thing for me is baseboard=no duct work, no duct work= no air conditioning
If you want base board for sure go with a gas boiler. The plus side to that is you can have a snow melt loop or a solar loop
See my above post about being all electric. That includes and electric water heater....Quote:
Originally Posted by Big E3
From what I've seen baseboard electric heat is commonly found in additions where they don't want to spend the $$ to run ductwork from a forced air system.
Having lived with baseboard heat in a few apartments I hated it, the only warm spots were near the heaters and as others have said, it really impacts where and how you can set up your furniture. It's also hella expensive compared to gas.
On our recent house search I automatically ruled out anything that had baseboard heat. In warmer climates where they don't get sub-zero temps, baseboard heating might make sense but not around here.
I won't live in a house with forced air or carpet because they aggravate my asthma and allergies so much. The self contained hydronic baseboards are nice but expensive to upgrade. The old heating element convection heaters are very costly to run, and I wouldn't want them as my primary source of heat. I have baseboards but never use them since I have two wood stoves. I'm slowly upgrading to the self contained hydronic for resale value when I retire.Quote:
Originally Posted by fly boy
Edit, I also purchased eight upright radiant heaters that I use when I am gone for extended periods of time, and they work well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf202
My electric bill is $100 per month + or - $10. I have a 50gal electric hot water heater, a couple of chest freezers, my refrigerator as well as my shop and and general electricity use for electronics, etc. I burn 6-8 cords of wood each year for heat.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big E3
While it may be obvious to a grand master know it all, when talking electric only houses, many people overlook the water heater and tend to think only of heating systems. I see nothing in any of the posts above that specifically mention an electric water heater to the OP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf202
Just more food for thought. If electric heat is your only heat source you better hope the power doesn't go out for an extended period of time.
It's not an issue with a good plan. I don't think a single source of heat is a good idea with gas or electric. I don't need either to heat my house, and the power could go out for months and I wouldn't care. I also need electricity for water because of the well pump. I cover that with a generator and backup supply. I'm certainly not an advocate of electric baseboard, but there are ways to work through it. The only thing I cared about when I purchased my house is that it had wood stoves; I wouldn't buy a house that didn't have either fireplace(s) or stove(s).Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1970
Electric loss will take out almost all types of heat other than some fireplaces but if you're using a generator as a backup it's a small power draw for a gas furnace or rediculous for an electric systemQuote:
Originally Posted by ray1970
I'm not going to take this bait. Just trying to help the opQuote:
Originally Posted by Big E3
I get that point. I went for about four days without power after a big ice storm in southeast Texas once. The gas stove and gas water heater let me cook and bathe. I had an old Dearborn heater that kept the house warm until the power came back on. My in laws home was all electric. After the second day without electricity they came and stayed with us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wulf202
Thank you all for the help. Sounds like I should go with my original thought and try to avoid baseboard electric heat.
I have baseboard water heat. Occasionally it can't keep up with the cold, but it never gets too cold to be dangerous. My house was built in 1955, and the boiler is probably original. I like the boiler heat, and if the house here in Cheyenne is insulated well enough, you won't need A/C.
Thanks Jeff,
I would still consider baseboard WATER, but not Baseboard Electric. Your boiler was fine when it was -50's a few weeks ago?
My house isn't insulated very well, so it struggled to keep up. I have some electric radiator type space heaters that I use to help out when it gets that cold. My gas/electric bill has never been over $200 in a month. My last bill was $173, so it wasn't too bad. I also have a gas clothes dryer, and gas water heater.
The baseboard heat is blocked in some areas by furniture, shelves, and cabinets. It still does pretty good for an old system.