BO vows to end 'Don't ask, Don't tell' policy

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10-10-2009, 19:20
SA Friday

BO vows to end 'Don't ask, Don't tell' policy

Figured this would get on here sooner or later, so I figured I would throw it out there first. http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_obama_gays

I know I throw out an opinion once and a while that isn't too popular with the COAR15 masses. Well, I'm sure this will be one of them. He can't get rid of the military's current policy on gays fast enough. It's crap. I knowingly served with gays while in the military, and it didn't make any difference to me. Their partner selection was irrelevant, their work ethic was. Sexual harrassment is sexual harrassment regardless of the sexual orientation of the harrasser and harrassed. That's enough to cover it.

I saw this policy continually cause problems for commanders. One overt act of homosexuality and thus begins the 'kick'em out' dance. Are they doing it to get out without the taint of a discharge less than honorable, or are they really homosexual? Was the act enough to meet the definition? Will someone investigate this for us? bla bla bla. Look, either they are a good soldier, marine, seaman, airman or they are not. I used to sit in certain meetings and hear these issues discussed monthly, sometimes weekly. I've seen it hurt our military and very good airman get booted because they were who they were. It was just stupid. Right up there along the lines of the 18 year old convoy gunner I had in my vehicle not being able to buy a f'n beer in this country, but he could run a 50 in a war zone and possibly die or worse.

Forcing anyone to live secretly for any law abiding citizen is just flat out unethical in any form. I personally hate it that I have to be careful telling people what my hobbies are when interviewing for a job. Shooting and hunting are a huge part of my life, but I know there are those out there that will hold it against me to the point of not being able to make my morgage. This is the exact same type of secret life, same type of retribution.

Ya, but the military lifestyle is different. They have to live in close quarters. I don't want any gay guy looking at my junk in the shower.... It's all BS, and the sexual harrassment policy covers it. If you are so fragile that you freak out over being sexually harrassed by a homosexual, then you are probably too fragile for the military anyway. You report it and the chain deals with it...

Let the flames begin.
10-10-2009, 19:37
sniper7

I think it is so he can apply to the army so he can learn to salute...not to mention the fact that he wouldn't be able to apply now since Michele is a man[ROFL1]
10-10-2009, 20:00
ChadAmberg

I've honestly never saw the issue when I served either. If you can maintain discipline and follow all orders and regulations, I don't think its really a big deal.

I doubt many "flamers" will join up. The biggest problem I have with "gay soldiers" are the fake ones like Duncan/Strandlof. Rule One: Know who your enemies are.
10-10-2009, 20:32
GreenScoutII

Couldn't possibly care less. Gays don't bother me. Its not like they're vampires and if one bites you, suddenly you will turn gay your self. We have a lot more important things to worry about in this country than who our nieghbor might be screwing.
10-10-2009, 20:43
ColoEnthusiast

The floral camo gives them away.
10-10-2009, 21:21
SNAFU

IMHO he's lining up votes,,gays,,welfare recipients,,.......

Socialism,,the new americanway
10-10-2009, 22:07
theGinsue

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNAFU

IMHO he's lining up votes,,gays,,welfare recipients,,.......

I am 100% in agreement with SA Friday on this issue, but I also agree that B.O.'s motive is simply to buy more votes. As with Sa Friday, I expect that my response below will bring shouts of "liberal", but they would be inaccurate.

During my 20 yrs, I worked with many individuals in uniform that I knew were gay, and many others that I suspected of being gay. Most of these individuals were good, conscientious, hard workers, a few were somewhat anti-social and difficult to work with, and some were pieces-of-shit that were breathing oxygen that someone with value could be using. So, pretty much, it was the same dynamic that I encountered in the hetero troops. I didn't have any inappropriate or uncomfortable situations with heteros - or gays -- at least not in the sexual side of things. What was important is the individuals ability to get along with others and complete the mission. I watched many outstanding troops (both male and female) run for a military discharge at the first chance they could get BEFORE they could be officially "outed". I even knew one married guy who committed suicide before returning from Turkey so he wouldn't get outed here in the states.

I think it's about time to end "Don't ask; don't tell" and all other limitations on homosexuals in the military. The DoD already has a number of "out" gays in civilian service as well as many contractors - both working side-by-side with those in uniform.

As SA Friday said, any inappropriate sexual conduct can be covered by the existing Sexual Harassment policies. Lets move ahead and focus on what's really important - accomplishing the mission.

ETA: For the record, I'm hetero.
10-11-2009, 00:26
theGinsue

Good points.
10-11-2009, 13:07
SA Friday

Quote:

Originally Posted by foxtrot

Question is, depending on how the policy is rewritten, can people use it as an excuse not to get discharged.

IE, "Your not discharging me because I accidentally shot a 2nd LT in the back, your just doing it because I'm gay!"

"Your not discharging me because I refuse to walk more than 1mph without an assistant bringing cold vitamin enriched water with me, your just discharging me because I'm gay!".

IMO - the don't ask don't tell could use some adjustment, but it wasn't intended to keep gays out of the military. It does keep "gay" from being an excuse for anything.

Not bashing, and not disagreeing really. Most gays in the military have no problems, and already serve with honor. And if only 672/tens to hundred thousand+ got discharged last year, the vast majority stay in the military and have long careers.

The problems you seek to fix can very well open up new doors. If the policy is written in such a way that you can challenge a discharge or sue on the premise of being gay, you just created a bigger problem then you did a solution. How many straight guys would switch sides just for that [LOL]

Would you have said the same statements above if you had served with the theatrical, shirt tied in knot, can't eat meat from MRE's so have to have everyone bring fresh fruit for him, refuses to shoot at the enemy, won't carry 80 pounds of gear homosexual - and your CO can't discharge him because "well, he's gay, captain" to speak nothing of his quality and skill as a soldier?

For the record, I have zero problems with homosexuals. They can do what they want. I do have problems with people that are "protected" from any action because of something completely unrelated.

True, but these issues get ringed out in the wash. We have the same issues with women in the military, women in combat, women as pilots, women in military academies.... If you look at the media frenzied cases over the years concerning women being inappropriately kicked out or prosecuted or whatever, very few of the claims or wrong-doing have been true. Best example is the female B-52 pilot up in Grand Forks that got prosecuted and the following crap storm from the media about how she was being persecuted for being a female pilot... Lol, I've actually seen the criminal case on her... She got off easy. If she would have been a man, it wouldn't have made the news but she would have gone to Leavenworth. I've also seen the cases from the USAF Academy and the whole rape scandal crap... No comment is all I can say[Rant1].

Same thing... We/the military can survive these allegations of impropriety and subsequent media spins. We cannot continue to openly persecute in the name of "what's right" at a governmental level. This is obviously at a much smaller scale, but the last time we tried this it was pretty catastrophic and ended in civil war. Nothing good ever comes from this type of philosophical disregard.
10-11-2009, 18:33
GunTroll

WOW! Touchy subject! I'm so far from center there is nothing I can say that wouldn't sound like the beginnings to premeditated "hate crimes" type of speech. You can choose how to be. Just keep it to yourself and don't expect the world to embrace you. I hate being told to be embracing of the gay culture. I'm not a hater of gays, just that I half to see it on TV, movies, news, politics, etc. Keep your shit private! I feel no one can tell me to be "understanding" , copasetic, or whatever. Damn crap!

I did meat an openly gay jewish, conservative, lesbian once. That was weird! She was so mixed up! Just hated the Left. She was cool to me.
10-11-2009, 22:48
theGinsue

I agree with you GunTroll. Please don't misinterpret my post to say that I agree or accept the gay lifestyle; I don't for personal and religious reasons. But as long as it is kept private and not thrown in my face I will disregard it. This is the same behavior I expect from most of my hetero acquaintances & friends. I don't need to see or hear all of the sexual comments or (esp.) the macho sexual behavior - from anyone.

I just think that, so long as the sexual preferences/comments/behavior is kept personal and private that it shouldn't be an issue for serving in the military.

I also agree that it shouldn'y be used for preferential treatment or as a means of giving someone a protected status as others have identified the problems that can/do arise from that.