M1A/M14 Advice

In an effort to round out my standard issue US infantry weapon collection, I'm looking at purchasing a M1A rifle that is walnut stocked that is representative of the early Vietnam era. I have no plans to shoot the rifle in matches or plan to mount a scope on it.

I know Springfield Armory is one of that typically comes to mind, but have also heard about LRB and James River Armory/Classic Firearms as a source for Vietnam era M14s. Price point obviously steps up steeply with the James River and particularly so with the LRB. Fulton Armory is another one that I'm familiar with.

Reliability is my primary goal, since it will be a rifle that gets shot but closely behind that is the looks of the rifle being representative of the Vietnam war.

Any words of wisdom?

Are there any reliability issues with the SA M1A standard?

Any reason to step up to a James River Armory which is about 50% more or LRB with is over 2x the price of a SA?

I have two Springfields and they run fine and seem plenty accurate. I hear great things about some of the other brands you mention, but my Springsfields have been great rifles for me.

Thanks.

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around spending the additional dollars.

Both talk about authentic Vietnam era reproductions but not sure what that means.

Original or refurbished USGI parts seems to be one characteristic they talk about.

LRB has a interesting looking Service Grade M14 that has the character you see in CMP Service grade M1 Garands.


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Reviews I've read so far that are coming from folks that call it the way it is, seems generally favorable to the Springfield Armory Standard model. They call out that SA uses MIM parts, receiver is cast vs hammer forged and that the build isn't completely milspec. Seems the comments were targeted more towards current production models with older M1A (80s) being milspec.

Need to decide how much of a difference that makes to me.

Comment from Classic Firearms:

These rifles are built to replicate the original military configuration of the M14, using new barrels and receivers but otherwise with original parts kits.
The Springfield M1A Standard is a completely newly manufactured firearm. The prices are comparable, with the nod to the Rockola but not by a lot. The Rockola's use of original parts also provides a physical connection with the original military rifles.

Stay away f I'm Springfield. I've destroyed 3 of them. Warranty is great but if you plan on using them they will break a lot and it's annoying that you have to ship the entire rifle back to Springfield. They use shit parts that are not machined well with inferior metal. I now have a LRB m25 and it's a great gun. I also recommend Fulton as a great shooter as well

Good to know. Great customer service is a good thing, but not something I want to be too familiar with.

Anyone have experience with James River Armory M14s?

There's a great sale on the M14 forum. It's an all GI spec M1A built by Ted Brown. The rifle is stuffed full of GI parts along with a GI walnut stock. Low round count and shocked it's still available at the price.

"LRB marked Criterion medium weight chrome-lined barrel
TRW bolt and USGI bolt guts
USGI trigger group
SEI forged oprod
Sadlak spring guide
USGI gas system unitized by Hueygunner (screw and glue)
Sadlak piston
USGI flash suppressor NM reamed
.062 NM front sight
USGI rear sight
USGI hand guard
Balance of other small parts is USGI

Will also include two CMI 20rd mags (where legal). Ammo shown not included.

It's a shooter. Ted test fired this action and shot a 1" 5 round group at 100 yards with M118 special ball. That was unbedded in a USGI fiberglass stock.

I've put maybe 200-300 rounds through it at most. It's mostly sat in the safe and my other rifle gets the range time.

$2000 now $1900 now $1800 now $1700 shipped to your FFL

Let me know if you have any questions or would like any more detailed pics."

http://m14forum.com/px/357121-ted-brown-built-m1a.html

You must be clairvoyant. I'm currently reading through the M14 Forum and saw that listing. I was actually reading Ted Brown's posts when the notification of your post came in.

Appreciate the tip.

Springfield Armory has a lifetime guarantee on their rifles. Yes, some things break, but generally I don't see it very often and they are few and far between. Now, the older M1A's with the GI parts in them are not known for this. Anything can wear out. About 2004 is when Springfield was running out of the GI surplus parts to fill M1A's with. The original M1A we bought was in the late 90's and everything is GI on it; it is running 15k rounds though it and everything is fine. The GI parts definitely bring a premium on the price now because of their limited amount. There are a few companies that are matching the GI quality but they are very pricey, LRB is one of them.
It just depends what you want to do with the rifle and what your price point is. Fulton Armory makes some excellent models as well and very accurate if you get the Peerless.

Since my goal is a M14 in an "as issued" condition, a build with GI parts is preferred but as you said, they are becoming difficult to find. I expect companies like LRB and James River are using reproductions in some cases for that reason.

If I could find a Springfield Armory GI, it definitely would be a contender.

Watch the M14 Forum. A Springfield Pre-Ban model was just on there for $1700. In order to verify that they're GI parts you'll need the serial numbers. Important parts to watch for is the serial number on the receiver heel, the bolt, and the op rod mainly. If you get really picky you can watch for the trigger and sights as well.

The manufactures for the US GI M14 were Springfield Armory (SA), Winchester, Harrington and Richardson (HR), and Thompson-Ramo-Wooldridge Inc (TRW). Springfield are the most common and the most manufactured. While Winchesters are rare and bring a lot higher priced. TRW on the other hand is very valuable and demanded as they exceeded the requirements on the specs and their parts are know to last the longest in opinion.

Numbers to watch for to verify it is a GI part:
GI bolt: 7790186
GI op rod: 7267064
Trigger group: Manufacture Stamp: SA, TRW, HR, 7267030
Hammer: 5546008
Gas cylinder: 7790902

On GI manufactures parts, there will also be an initial of the manufacture on the part such as SA, TRW, H&R, or HRT. There is a wealth of information on the M14/M1A platform out there and I'm just starting to learn about them after about 10 years with the weapons. I've forgot more than I remember hence I have the books for fast reference.

Lee Emerson makes some great books that are worth purchasing for reference, "M14 Rifle History and Development." Along with The M14 Owners Guide and match conditioning instructions" by Scott A. Duff and John M. Miller and the shop manual from Jerry Kuhnhausen.

Getting a rifle as close to USGI as possible is hard but very feasible if you take your time. To me, the biggest things I'd look for is the serial number on the receiver to verify it was built during the proper time, a USGI bolt, USGI op rod, and preferably a USGI gas cylinder. Everything else is fine. If you don't get a USGI bolt, it's easy to swap out the ejector and extractor with USGI parts to get them up to spec. GI op rods are very pricey at around $250 and up but the current ones being manufactured aren't bad. Just my opinion on them for the amount most people shoot and problems that have been discussed.

The USGI parts numbers listed are from "M14 Rifle History and Development" on page 144.

Wow. Appreciate the detail. It is like Groundhog day and reminds me of my first M1 Carbine purchase. Were the M14 similar to the M1 Carbine and mix master rifles by design? Not sure if all manufacturers made every part.

I've got an e-mail in to Ted Brown over at the Shooter's Den to see what he can do for me. Receiver will likely be LRB or Gunwerks but should help scratch the itch while I work on a true USGI M14.

The M14 adopted some similarities of the M1 Garand but it was an entirely different beast. There are some parts interchangeable between the Garand and M14 and the sights are one of them. Only differences is yards increments for the Garand and meters for the M14.

I'm with you there. With the M1 Garand, most of the major parts were of a single manufacturer but with the M1 Carbine, it wasn't unusual to have multiple manufacture parts in an original M1 Carbine since some manufacturers only produced receivers and the remaining parts came from other manufacturers. Makes it difficult to figure out whether a M1 Carbine came that way originally or a result of a rebuild or franken build.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marine24

I'm with you there. With the M1 Garand, most of the major parts were of a single manufacturer but with the M1 Carbine, it wasn't unusual to have multiple manufacture parts in an original M1 Carbine since some manufacturers only produced receivers and the remaining parts came from other manufacturers. Makes it difficult to figure out whether a M1 Carbine came that way originally or a result of a rebuild or franken build.

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Uhmm, no.
Springfield Armory
Winchester
Harrington & Richardson
International Harvester
Beretta
Breda
FMAP

I'm not communicating very well. WW II Garands were manufactured by Springfield Armory and Winchester.

Both manufacturers made each of the components on the Garand and stamped them appropriately. Those with the correct manufacturer's mark on all the stamped components are highly collectible, as opposed to the typical mixmaster Garands that resulted from rebuilds, imports or general maintenance.

Following WWII, Springfield rebuilt a number of M1s at the onset of the Korean War. Iver Johnson and Harrington & Richardson also produced M1s during the Korean War period.

For the M1 Carbine, some manufacturers only built the receiver with the remaining components coming from other manufacturers to complete the rifle.

My question was whether the M14 followed the M1 Carbine model or the M1 Garand.

Somewhat of a moot point since it unlikely to find an original M14 receiver since they were select fire unless you have the appropriate license.



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