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I am curious to hear some first hand impressions of the RFB and KSG. There's lots online but I trust opinions here. I've never owned a keltec and realize many people say avoid them like the plague, but with rfb as low as 1100 new and ksg as low as 575 new they are actually worth me taking a look at now.
The mdr, tavor 7 and m17s are all over 2k, almost double a rfb. Are they really as much of a crap shoot as people say?
keltec suck
I have a Sub2000 in .40 S&W. Sight height doesn't make it the most comfortable to shoot but using Glock magazines and being able to fold in half makes it a pretty easy carbine to tote around.
Another board that is focused on KT firearms is https://www.thektog.org/
George Kellgren is an interesting guy and has some very novel design ideas. His production facility in Florida seems to be producing firearms as fast as they can but for some of the firearms, demand is clearly out pacing supply.
Wrong sub forum, but...
The KSG is interesting for the size/capacity aspects, but beyond that, I have to agree with BFB.
I don't mind a little polymer but there's just way too much plastic in their lineup. Especially for the price. If the KSG was around $299 or maybe even $350 I'd likely buy one. At $500+ I'd rather buy to 870's and just duct tape them together.
As for the RFB, besides being priced higher than I think a predominantly plastic rifle should be, I actually don't like that it uses FAL magazines. There was a time when those magazines were cheap and plentiful. Seems the Pmags that are everywhere these days might have made a better choice.
I've spent some time behind a buddies Sub 2K it was a pretty nice shooter pretty accurate.
Kel-Tec has great design concepts than need to be manufactured by somebody besides "Plastics R Us".
I totally agree that at msrp they are absurd. I've just noticed they have gone down enough to where it seems semi plausible to try one out. Especially the ksg as it's pretty unique and at 600 or so fairly easy to recoup my money.
I've owned a Keltec RFB for a few years and have no complaints. It's compact with the ballistics of an 18" .308. I bought several metric FAL mags when they were still cheap and easy to find. I used it on a Texas hog hunt and appreciated it's short size when I was in a blind. Got a moving pig at 200 yds with it. The only negative thing I can say is it's heavy.
They are pricey unless you find a stupid good deal. I like my sub 2000. Accurate enough and uses Glock magazines
It's not that bad. 8.1 lbs is fairly typical for a 308 especially an 18 inch 308. M17s, mdr, tavor 7 are all around 8 to 8.5.Quote:
Originally Posted by omega1
Well that's kind of the thing. I wouldn't buy them at full price which is why it's never even crossed my mind. But an rfb for 1100 is half the price of any other 308 bullpup. I don't like that you can't clear or see hand easily thoigh.Quote:
Originally Posted by fitterjohn
Same on ksg. I never considered it at 900 but now you can get them at 575. That's not too shabby. I've just heard so many stories of keltec lemons not to mention there are virtually no parts for them made by third parties. No barrels, grips, triggers, etc. That makes it a little dicey because it means you are 100 percent reliant on keltec to continue their design and to even continue as a company.
I have a sub2000 I have not gotten a chance to shoot yet. So far it does what I want it to: collapse into a small footprint and be light, take my pistol's mags. Assuming it shoots and doesn't have jamming problems, it will be the new "drive to denver" gun.
The company has been in business since 1991. Not quite as long as Remington or S&W but they’ve been cranking out and selling firearms for over twenty five years. Not to say they couldn’t go belly up tomorrow but they apparently must be turning enough profit to keep the owners in the lifestyle they’re accustomed to.Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckay2
My RDB is much better made than I expected it to be ... side by side with a Tavor its every bit as well made. The guy I work with has two Sub2000s that he says are a hoot to shoot and have given him no problems.
My wife's got a P3AT that is wonderful to carry, but horrible to shoot (but it does always go bang, so it works, it's just not comfortable to shoot).
True but you have to wonder how they will do when the owner passes on. He's not super young after all and seems to be the brains behind it. Also it seems no one ever makes spare parts third party. I mean the rfb barrel especially would be a real problem because of its weird dimensions.Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1970
I'm just playing devils advocate. I appreciate info both positive and negative, I'm just try8ng to convince myself one way or another. The ksg is unique enough that at 575 I probably couldn't lose money. The rfb is trickier. It's half the cost of other 308 bullpups but also uses difficult to find mags and has almost no modularity. Also it sounds as though keltec plans to replace it some day with a rdb version. The other 308 bullpup options would be the mdr, tavor 7, and k&m m17s, all this their pros and cons but all north of 2k. Hmmm....
But to that note at some point doesn't everyone stop making their model of xxxxx at some point, but the demand doesn't drop for it. Example: security sixQuote:
Originally Posted by tmckay2
I think what makes most of the Kel Tecs seem cheap and poorly made to me are the way they have tons of little nuts and bolts holding all of the plastic together. Kind of like the way cheap toy guns are put together in China. Almost like rather than engineer something quality they just said f**k it we'll make a left and a right half and we'll run to Ace Hardware and get some nuts and machine screws and just bolt the plastic together.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zundfolge
Likely not much of a market for them. Kel Tec built its reputation around offering a cheaply priced product. People who buy products because they're cheap usually aren't interested in tossing a bunch of money into upgrading their stuff. In other words, no demand for aftermarket support means no supply.Quote:
Originally Posted by tmckay2
Have owned a RFB RDB and a KSG. They are interesting firearms, but there was always a few things that made me get rid of them. KSG required you to nearly kill your shoulder to cycle the stupid thing reliably (have bad shoulders). RFB ended up jamming up really bad on me twice so i sold it. also didn't hold up well between cleanings. ~300 rounds and it was clean or adjust your gas system every 30 rounds or so (gen1). RDB actually worked fine, but it was quite awkward and really wasn't more than a range rifle so i sold it. I hear the new RFB's are working fine once they did a few generational upgrades to the system... wouldnt buy another one though as they cost more than when i bought one now a days.
I like my RDB quite a lot. It has not jammed in any way and is good ergos me
Full disclosure...I have owned several and shot everything in the KelTec Line. I like them and I have friends who work at KelTec and I sponsor their 3Gun shooting team. I have 5 of them now, PF9, Sub2000, RDB and honestly, I think those are some of their better offerings. The PF9 is NiB coated, runs like a champ, but I will admit it was hand selected. The Sub2000s have some sight issues, but they are fun, accurate and have some interesting features. The front sight is just terrible in design. The RDB, rail screws came loose requiring me to locktite them. I have been running the prototype magwell for the RDB and it really improves the reload speed. The RDB is not very accurate, but it is very compact and has a decent trigger. For me, it ended up being a good choice for my Gemtech Halo.
The RFB, I would not own. There are just too many issues, and .308 in a kind of a one-off configuration with all proprietary parts.
The KSGs are pretty cool and offer a lot of on-board ammo, to me it is a niche gun and not the first choice for anything except coolness maybe. That is not to say the ones I shot had any issues, just not my cup of tea,
They do have excellent customer service, which for many mitigates the issues with any of their guns.
Keltec is very cheap brand that appears to many because of price. One of my only interactions with the brand directly has been the KSG shotgun. I have been notified of 2 incidents of severe user personal damage from them. The design is great; however the forward hand working the slide is very capable of coming in front of the muzzle with any error. Both errors I was notified of were in relation to a forward style "broom stick" grip that came unlocked allowing the hand to come forward. While I agree the design is amazing and impressive, all of my use of the shotgun for hunting and tactical use (including combat for 10 years) never warranted the use of this design. I think it's worth spending the extra few cents in a well known design such as a Remington 870 build by Vang Comp.