I knew it was only a matter of time. It's why I fully feel that SWATting someone should be charged as attempted murder. In this case, actual murder (by the person doing the call).
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/cri...192111974.html
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I knew it was only a matter of time. It's why I fully feel that SWATting someone should be charged as attempted murder. In this case, actual murder (by the person doing the call).
http://www.kansas.com/news/local/cri...192111974.html
Another case of our society swirling around the toilet bowl.
Swatting is eff'ed up but so is shooting someone who "came to the door".
Yea. A guy who is supposedly holding hostages doesn't come up,to the door and answer it. Well, unless he's really terrible at holding hostages.
There is obviously something seriously wrong when all it takes is a phone call to the gestapo for this to happen.
That’s my reaction to this as well. All it takes is an anonymous phone call. No verification required, just send out the door kickers.Quote:
Originally Posted by DavieD55
"SWATTING" is rare, and the opposite would be a worse situation. If you call the police and they sit around debating whether they should go to the call, then what's the point of calling the police?Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Dutch
I feel like a couple years ago we were actually getting several swatting calls a year, now it seems to have dwindled down quite a bit. This is the first I've heard of a swatting case in a while. I hope that some justice gets served to the the swatting idiots.
Here we go again. My prediction is this thread won't last long.
Worse than seeing a family member gunned down by the cops? I don’t see how, that person is, in fact, dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Yep.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
...and the person who gave the bogus address, manslaughter.Quote:
Originally Posted by RblDiver
O2
Here's a video of the shooting. They shot him from across the street right after "yelling let's see your hands."
Guy is standing in his doorway, moves after being told to show his hands (can't tell if he's holding anything) and then he is shot.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...ting-hoax.html
There must be a misunderstanding here. What do you think I meant when I said the opposite would be worse?Quote:
Originally Posted by Little Dutch
Sounds like they arrested the jackass who made the call. Also has the same name as a guy who was previously arrested for making false bomb threats--but not confirmed it's the same guy I don't think. Hopefully he gets the full body cavity treatment by the legal system.
http://abc7.com/la-man-arrested-in-c...ident/2840369/
So... Time will tell as to how accurate everything being reported by MSM is, but when a call originates in LA (where one douche was reportedly arrested in connection to this incident), but the address provided is in another state, how does that not raise flags? (I admittedly have little knowledge as to how 911 systems + procedures work)
I'm guessing there was some kind of spoofing to make it look like the call wasn't from LA, but I'm not sure either how that works with the system he called into. The other red flag, though, was that the guy told the 911 dispatcher that it was a one-story house (because he was pranking and guessing) . . . and that's a two-story house they responded to. You'd think that disconnect would have been noticed, but maybe that's not a detail that got passed along ot noticed at the time?Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeson247
The one story vs two story thing wouldn't have been noticed by anyone, especially in light of the alleged circumstances.
Some people are goddamn evil.
In before the lock just in case
People still answer their doors to unknown visitors in 2017?
I've got a smartphone and if you know me well enough to ring my doorbell you can text me your intent to do so before showing up. If you don't, then I don't want to talk to you anyway.
I had a late knock on the door. It was after 11:00 PM, I was in bed watching Leno when someone pounded on the front door. I got up, put om my pants and went into the front room, stood back from the door as they pounded again. I yelled, who is it. The person responded Santa Ana Police. This was odd as I lived in Garden Grove (found out later that we were only 50 yards from the Santa Ana, Garden Grove, Westminster city borders.
Anyway, I yelled back, what do you want. The guy just said to open the door, he wanted to talk to me. I picked up the phone and called the operator and asked to be connected to the Santa Ana police department. While waiting, the guy pounded on the door again and yelled for me to open the door RIGHT NOW! I said that I was calling the police department and I asked for his name and badge number. I was connected to the police and told them what was going on, gave them my name and address, they said there was no dispatch or call to my address. The officer told me not to open the door and notified the Garden Grove police department and they showed up within 5 minutes. Whoever was pounding on my door was gone and the police kept additional patrols on my street that night.
To this day, I don't know who or why they were at my door but it was not the Santa Ana police.
I never open my door to anyone at odd hours if I can't verify the identity of the person knocking on mt door.
It is sad that this happened and I think that the guy that called in the report should be prosecuted as far as the law will allow. Prayers up for the victim and his family.
Our front door has a big tempered glass pane, so I know exactly who is on the other side when someone is on the porch. I don't always have a gun on my hip at home, but there is always one available en route to the front door. We've had the police show up a few times, usually asking about a disturbance in the neighborhood. I'll either talk to them through the (locked) storm door (also large tempered glass pane), or step out on to the porch and close the door behind me. It's amazing how polite they are when you're not a dick.
When I lived alone over on Green Mountain many years ago, the Lakewood cops pounded on my door at about 0230 one morning. I looked through the peep hole to confirm they were actually cops, then opened the door. Much to the embarrassment of the two police women who were there, as I slept in the nude, and hadn't bothered to dress, as they sounded quite urgent. The 2 male cops seemed to be mostly amused at their coworker's discomfort. It turns out they were looking for the manager's dipshit son, who lived 3 doors down.
Not to make light of the situation, but your comment reminded me of thisQuote:
Originally Posted by Jer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Swzvm-gXHg
ROFL Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by KevDen2005
Thank cell phones for that, anyone with any area code could be living down the block, or next door. Not speculating what happened or why it did regarding the actual shooting. I doubt when there is a 911 hostages call, the local LE would be hanging around waiting for confirmation that call was legit or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeson247
Respond balls to the wall or sit back till something was confirmed? Either way they're condemned for their actions.
Or the 3rd option: Positive confirmation/ID of both situation suspect before escalation.
Yeah...because when the police arrive on scene of a reported homicide/hostage situation and a guy opens the door and appears to be reaching for something in/near his waistband, after the police have told him to keep his hands visible and in the air, the police have all the time in the world to ask for his ID and confirm whether or not he killed someone and was still holding hostages or is something else going on. Everyone knows that.
Or maybe in future situations where it's not clear what's going on the police on scene could just jump online to their favorite forum where everyone's an expert and start a thread about what they should do to handle the situation? That might work.
Or how about this? If the cops suddenly show up at your house, with guns pointed at you, maybe it's a really good time to just listen closely and do EXACTLY what they tell you to do. I'm just throwin' that out there. But I know the drill...a bunch of people want to be all riled up about the Gestapo and trigger happy cops. But sometimes being stupid around the po-po has some pretty negative consequences.
Do what you're told to do when cops are pointing guns at you and live to sort it out later. Then you can be alive to be outraged about the Gestapo.
From the article in the OP:Quote:
Originally Posted by KevDen2005
More than 1 a day? Damn. Not insignificant, but there's not a big rash of this going on either I guess. It's a testament to the police that tragedies like this one don't happen more often IMHO.Quote:
Around 400 swatting cases happen each year
Edit before I get gored:
The cops have to assume that the threat that was called in is real. I imagine they show up in full gear, weapons ready, expecting the worst, but I don't know that. Innocent person opens the door or it gets kicked in and sees guns pointed at them. WTF are lots of people going to do? Freak the f out, that's what. People freaking out in front of cops with guns isn't a good situation.
I'm not a cop, so maybe I'm way off here.
I was really only thinking of geo location associated with whatever phone was used - area codes are practically useless given cell phones and how far some of us live from where we bought our first cell. Maybe it’s not automatic, but a geoloc even if just based on towers and not gps would be one more thing that could help departments avoid situations like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo
Bailey, in this case, the police were across the street taking cover behind vehicles. The distance most certainly affords a bit of time to confirm what he was doing with his hands before being shot. No, they won't be confirming ID's but they can certainly take 1 second to get a visual of a weapon before shooting in this particular case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
I know your experience leads your opinion on these things. And I don't question that. I don't have that experience. But I watched this video with my Dad who spent decades as a State LEO, SWAT marksman and LEO firearms instructor. He is a similar generation as you and he swears this generation of police are being trained to handle these sorts of situations differently than his was. In all his years, he was taught to confirm before taking deadly force. SEE a weapon before firing. Simple hand movement was not a reason to kill someone (unless of course a weapon was visible in the waistpants for example.)
People do strange things when contacted by police. Why they move their hands down when guns are pointed at them may seem dumb, but I suspect it's mostly involuntary. I'm sure you pulled someone over in your career for a simple moving violation who was shaking and/or crying when you approached the window. Why would their body respond that way for nothing more than a quick discussion with an officer? I'm sure if they could control it they would, but it happens. Now take that very simple police contact, but instead of someone who was driving 10 over, it's a person awakened from sleep, still a bit confused, who opens a door to spotlights shining in his face, bullhorns yelling commands and threats of being killed if he did something wrong? Is it unreasonable to believe that person may have an uncontrolled, stress induced physiological response where he does something he shouldn't? Absolutely! Most people wouldn't think clearly during something like this.
People deserve to be given the benefit of the doubt by police. I will always believe that. I was raised to believe that the police protect and serve, that they are willing to risk their lives to help people. That them going home at the end of the day wasn't the most important thing but instead making sure they treated people right, did their job right and helped the people they meet was.
Man in a truck on fire? Nope, going home tonight is not most important, going into a burning truck to help give that that guy a chance to live is. Confused man who may be a bad guy standing on his front porch moves his hands in a downwards motion? Nope. Going home tonight is not the most important, making sure you don't kill an innocent man is. This is not fairytale. It's the way many police officers live their lives and do their jobs. It's not unreasonable to hold them to that standard.
On that note, breaking news is multiple officers down in Littleton. Don't know the details. Let's pray for them.
My intrepretation is they can bypass most means of knowing where the call really came from. Or in the other case, they can CSI GEO blah blah blah it, I imagine that takes calls to the telecoms and time which if you don't react promptly to these things and it is real...... bad outcome that way too.Quote:
Originally Posted by eyeson247
I can respect a well thought out and reasoned response like yours, hollohas. Thank you for that. I'll offer up some differing perspective in bold.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hollohas
Regarding the phone spoofing thing, per https://hotair.com/archives/2017/12/...s-transparent/ , spoofing is actually legal unless you have "intent to defraud, cause harm, or wrongly obtain anything of value." So, in this case it's illegal, but frequently it's permitted. Apparently, so is the requirement that cross-state calls must be allowed to have "blocked" numbers. Pretty stupid if you ask me. All numbers should be readily identifiable.
FIFYQuote:
Originally Posted by RblDiver
Bailey, you make great points that I can't argue with. I appreciate you responding to my comments because it creates a learning opportunity for everyone.
I especially agree with this..
"But anyone who intentionally places themselves in a deadly situation just because they want to "protect and serve" probably needs to rethink their priorities."
...and want to make sure it's clear I don't expect police officers to do that. A hero complex is not a healthy characteristic for a police officer.
I respect LEO's a great deal. I was raised to not even call them "cops" but to actually use the term "police" instead. I just ran into a few officers at the Littleton Hospital and had a quick chat. I didn't shed a tear when my baby boy was born this week, but my eyes were sure watery after a quick chat with those guys.
My respect for LE is the reason I hold them to high standards. Maybe fair, maybe not, but that's where it comes from.
Good reason to make sure you have a home phone registered for reverse 911. That way the local agency can call to talk to anybody in the residence.