Transfer to Children under 18

I think I found some opportunity. But correct me if I am mistaken.

CO 13-1229 requires BGCs on all transfers but specifically exempts immediate family...

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(6) THE PROVISIONS OF THIS SECTION DO NOT APPLY TO:

[snip]

(b) TRANSFER THAT IS A BONA FIDE GIFT OR LOAN BETWEEN
IMMEDIATE FAMILY MEMBERS, WHICH ARE LIMITED TO SPOUSES, PARENTS,
CHILDREN, SIBLINGS, GRANDPARENTS, GRANDCHILDREN, NIECES, NEPHEWS,
FIRST COUSINS, AUNTS, AND UNCLES

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"CHILDREN" is not qualified by age in 13-1229 nor are there any other age limits in the bill so it does not modify any other state law with respect to age restrictions.

CO prohibits anyone under the age of 21 from possessing a handgun. There is no age limit on possession of long guns. None. 1 day old to 17 years, 11 months. No state law against it.

The Feds have an 18 year old limit on the transfer of long guns (not possession). But the Feds have no jurisdiction on in-state transfers unless it involves a FFL. This is the whole point of 13-1229, to force Fed authority/rules on the transfer. If a BGC isn't required, it doesn't involve a FFL, Fed rules don't apply.

Even the grabbers point this out as a gap and want to close it...

http://lawcenter.giffords.org/gun-la...n/minimum-age/


Would it not be prudent to informally gift lowers and ARs to children now and document prior to any new restrictions?


I have un-built lowers in the safe that are considered firearms. Been sitting there for years but my kids are also years off from being 18. Documenting the giving of these as gifts would be easy.


NOTE: This is not skirting the law or suggesting anything illegal. This is a feature purposefully built into 13-1229.

Sounds like a question for a lawyer.

However, it's not illegal for a person under 21 to possess a handgun. Not sure if that was just a typo but here's what the law says. Basically, if they have the parents permission and are on their own property there's no age limit for handguns, either:

18-12-108.5. Possession of handguns by juveniles - prohibited - exceptions - penalty
(1) (a) Except as provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person who has not attained the age of eighteen years knowingly to have any handgun in such person's possession.
(b) Any person possessing any handgun in violation of paragraph (a) of this subsection (1) commits the offense of illegal possession of a handgun by a juvenile.
(c)
(I) Illegal possession of a handgun by a juvenile is a class 2 misdemeanor.
(II) For any second or subsequent offense, illegal possession of a handgun by a juvenile is a class 5 felony.
(d) Any person under the age of eighteen years who is taken into custody by a law enforcement officer for an offense pursuant to this section shall be taken into temporary custody in the manner described in section 19-2-508, C.R.S.
(2) This section shall not apply to:
(a) Any person under the age of eighteen years who is:
(I) In attendance at a hunter's safety course or a firearms safety course; or
(II) Engaging in practice in the use of a firearm or target shooting at an established range authorized by the governing body of the jurisdiction in which such range is located or any other area where the discharge of a firearm is not prohibited; or
(III) Engaging in an organized competition involving the use of a firearm or participating in or practicing for a performance by an organized group under 501 (c)(3) as determined by the federal internal revenue service which uses firearms as a part of such performance; or
(IV) Hunting or trapping pursuant to a valid license issued to such person pursuant to article 4 of title 33, C.R.S.; or
(V) Traveling with any handgun in such person's possession being unloaded to or from any activity described in subparagraph (I), (II), (III), or (IV) of this paragraph (a);
(b) Any person under the age of eighteen years who is on real property under the control of such person's parent, legal guardian, or grandparent and who has the permission of such person's parent or legal guardian to possess a handgun;
(c) Any person under the age of eighteen years who is at such person's residence and who, with the permission of such person's parent or legal guardian, possesses a handgun for the purpose of exercising the rights contained in section 18-1-704 or section 18-1-704.5.
(3) For the purposes of subsection (2) of this section, a handgun is "loaded" if:
(a) There is a cartridge in the chamber of the handgun; or
(b) There is a cartridge in the cylinder of the handgun, if the handgun is a revolver; or
(c) The handgun, and the ammunition for such handgun, is carried on the person of a person under the age of eighteen years or is in such close proximity to such person that such person could readily gain access to the handgun and the ammunition and load the handgun.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Sounds like a question for a lawyer.

However, it's not illegal for a person under 21 to possess a handgun. Not sure if that was just a typo but here's what the law says. Basically, if they have the parents permission and are on their own property there's no age limit for handguns, either:

[snip]

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Should have qualified that. Those carefully listed exemptions could bring a question as to ownership. Example, if you can't readily access a thing absent permission, do you own it? "Well, CO has a law..."

No such restrictions that I'm aware of, or narrowly listed exemptions, with long guns. And no law against it. That's my focus for now. If there are zero restrictions based on age then it would be difficult to disqualify a gift to a minor.

The Colorado handgun law covers those under 18, not under 21. I know, because I was lucky enough to be caught in limbo for a few months after the law took effect and before turning 18.

Now see before Bgc check law you could sell a 18 year old a handgun (Private party) and he could possess it but not buy from a ffl. Since the law says we have to do ffl xfers that closed up that hole since now you can't really do a Private party sell to a 18 year old because they cant purchase a handgun from a ffl, hence once you gun goes into the ffl's A&D book it has to be signed out to a person of 21 or older.

The rest is pretty interesting and I agree with Bailey it's a question for a lawyer.

A revocable living trust is what I put my faith in. It can own about anything and be accessed by anybody listed.

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Originally Posted by sniper7

A revocable living trust is what I put my faith in. It can own about anything and be accessed by anybody listed.

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How does one transfer firearms to a trust, post 2013? Does doing so require that each person listed go through a background check?

Does a trust have as many legal protections (ha!) as an individual?

Per the CRS, what prohibits the transfer from family member to the 18 - 21 recipient without UBC?

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Originally Posted by CavSct1983

How does one transfer firearms to a trust, post 2013? Does doing so require that each person listed go through a background check?

Does a trust have as many legal protections (ha!) as an individual?

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http://coyoterifleworks.com/nfa-trust

might answer your questions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by CavSct1983

How does one transfer firearms to a trust, post 2013? Does doing so require that each person listed go through a background check?

Does a trust have as many legal protections (ha!) as an individual?

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Great question as I had almost all mine listed pre 2013. But with the NFA items in the trust I still had to do the background check personally but all people in the trust have access. That has now changed where all responsible people have to submit fingerprints and background checks but at least then they are allowed access.

So I’m not really sure what is needed if I were to purchase a new gun and put it in the trust. I’ll have to read the link COgirl attached

It's all about NFA and their specific trusts. I'm not seeing where it answers those questions specifically.

Obviously, the simple answer to #2 is to simply boot everyone from the Trust before the bgc portion of a non-NFA transfer.

I've researched this before and came up empty, as most simply say (either of their own accord or relaying what their NFA Trust lawyer said) not to put non-NFA items on a trust. However, a lot of that info is non-CO specific.

Here's a 2011 example of such a question/answers: http://www.m4carbine.net/archive/index.php/t-80219.html

https://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2012/...-firearms.html says you can, but doesn't specify *how*.

I'll ask NFATrustGuy again, since his info is CO specific and is based on the trusts he makes, which I have.

The problem with Trusts is if someone in the Trust becomes a prohibited person, the whole thing is a mess. According to my Attorney, and the ATF attorney I spoke with, upon my death, the tax stamp items I own can 1. Become the property of my heirs, each having to pass the background checks, but not requiring a new stamp (they actually have a process to do this). or 2. Transfer into a trust that could have members who could keep the trust, or transfer them out individually.

Both of my boys (14 and 16) own several of their own firearms and boxes of magazines. We gave them AR15 lowers and a box of parts from which they built their own at 12 years old. I have given them several of the long guns I hunted with as a kid, and shotguns and pistols. Perfectly legal. Possession by them of their handguns off our property has to meet the restrictions enumerated in Post #2.

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Originally Posted by CavSct1983

How does one transfer firearms to a trust, post 2013? Does doing so require that each person listed go through a background check?

Does a trust have as many legal protections (ha!) as an individual?

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The BGC for each firearm has to be done for the trust they are being transferred to.. Since the trust name is not the name on the 4473 they were purchased by. I put the trust name with me as Trustee on the 4473.

After some reading and info by the ATF and attorney, everything is in the will that's not part (NFA) of the trust. The pre trust NFA items will be done with a Form 5. Same for NFA trust items the remaining family members don't want. Which will save the lucky winners a lot of $$$$$ and hassle.

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Originally Posted by MarkCO

The problem with Trusts is if someone in the Trust becomes a prohibited person, the whole thing is a mess. According to my Attorney, and the ATF attorney I spoke with, upon my death, the tax stamp items I own can 1. Become the property of my heirs, each having to pass the background checks, but not requiring a new stamp (they actually have a process to do this). or 2. Transfer into a trust that could have members who could keep the trust, or transfer them out individually.

Both of my boys (14 and 16) own several of their own firearms and boxes of magazines. We gave them AR15 lowers and a box of parts from which they built their own at 12 years old. I have given them several of the long guns I hunted with as a kid, and shotguns and pistols. Perfectly legal. Possession by them of their handguns off our property has to meet the restrictions enumerated in Post #2.

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This is what I'm talking 'bout! And was intended to be the original topic of the thread.

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Originally Posted by Skip

This is what I'm talking 'bout! And was intended to be the original topic of the thread.

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Do it. My boys had a great time building theirs and they enjoy shooting them and understanding the inner workings. Saved some time once they started to clean them too. In reality, the lead and chemicals from cleaning is my biggest caution. I make sure they wear good gloves, well ventilated and the harsh solvents, if needed, I apply still.

I grew up admiring the smell of Hoppes #9 since I was a kid. I hope yours aren't being deprived. [Coffee]

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Originally Posted by Gman

I grew up admiring the smell of Hoppes #9 since I was a kid. I hope yours aren't being deprived. [Coffee]

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A spritz here and there, but a lot more Lucas Products that are low VOC.