Learning LandNav

Hi All,

Working on continuing my education in useful skills; next on my list is land navigation. I've spent some time poking around and watching YouTube videos and reading, and have acquired the following tools:

Cammenga Lensatic compass with tritium
1:25,000 Topo maps of my immediate area, plus the 8 surrounding maps to the central area
A Coordinate grid reader and protractor
Map Tools UTM Coordinate Scale protractor for both 1:24,000 and 1:25,000 maps

I took the REI intro to Orienteering class a few years back and didn't find much use out of it, and now that I have a little more time to dive in for the summer, I'd like to get out and get more practice. I'm looking for recommendations on information and books that would be helpful in understanding and applying these skills, with the ultimate goal of taking backpacking trips this summer and leaving the GPS at home - aka in the backpack turned off. Any help or useful instruction would be greatly appreciated!

Find a 2LT. Do the opposite of everything he says. :D
https://pics.me.me/not-all-who-wande...he-5680797.png

https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-25-26.pdf
http://www.imef.marines.mil/Portals/...Powerpoint.ppt

Once this dang degree is done (juneish?), I'd be happy to join you. Will be integrating this in this season's scouting for a refresh since it's now a rusty skill.

I find that I learn in a task oriented situation better than reading manuals and whatnot. So I'd go onto some Geocaching web sites, find some local geocaches and then go find them with map and compass instead of GPS.

Orienteering is kind of like shooting, yes you can learn stuff by reading about it, but you really need to get out there and do it to accelerate your learning curve.

This is a great idea - never thought of it!

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Originally Posted by Zundfolge

I find that I learn in a task oriented situation better than reading manuals and whatnot. So I'd go onto some Geocaching web sites, find some local geocaches and then go find them with map and compass instead of GPS.

Orienteering is kind of like shooting, yes you can learn stuff by reading about it, but you really need to get out there and do it to accelerate your learning curve.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zundfolge

I find that I learn in a task oriented situation better than reading manuals and whatnot. So I'd go onto some Geocaching web sites, find some local geocaches and then go find them with map and compass instead of GPS.

Orienteering is kind of like shooting, yes you can learn stuff by reading about it, but you really need to get out there and do it to accelerate your learning curve.

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Well of course. Manuals and such are for introducing the ideas one needs to think about when doing it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Batteriesnare

Hi All,

Working on continuing my education in useful skills; next on my list is land navigation. I've spent some time poking around and watching YouTube videos and reading, and have acquired the following tools:

Cammenga Lensatic compass with tritium
1:25,000 Topo maps of my immediate area, plus the 8 surrounding maps to the central area
A Coordinate grid reader and protractor
Map Tools UTM Coordinate Scale protractor for both 1:24,000 and 1:25,000 maps

I took the REI intro to Orienteering class a few years back and didn't find much use out of it, and now that I have a little more time to dive in for the summer, I'd like to get out and get more practice. I'm looking for recommendations on information and books that would be helpful in understanding and applying these skills, with the ultimate goal of taking backpacking trips this summer and leaving the GPS at home - aka in the backpack turned off. Any help or useful instruction would be greatly appreciated!

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Go to the Colorado Mountain Club (CMC) web site. There are classes you can attend for a small fee. Wilderness Trekking School manual has information on land navigation and compass use.

https://hikingdenver.net/wp-content/...al-F17-V4s.pdf


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

https://www.amazon.com/Expert-Map-Co...70_&dpSrc=srch

best book but practice is crucial

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Batteriesnare

Hi All,

Working on continuing my education in useful skills; next on my list is land navigation. I've spent some time poking around and watching YouTube videos and reading, and have acquired the following tools:

Cammenga Lensatic compass with tritium
1:25,000 Topo maps of my immediate area, plus the 8 surrounding maps to the central area
A Coordinate grid reader and protractor
Map Tools UTM Coordinate Scale protractor for both 1:24,000 and 1:25,000 maps

I took the REI intro to Orienteering class a few years back and didn't find much use out of it, and now that I have a little more time to dive in for the summer, I'd like to get out and get more practice. I'm looking for recommendations on information and books that would be helpful in understanding and applying these skills, with the ultimate goal of taking backpacking trips this summer and leaving the GPS at home - aka in the backpack turned off. Any help or useful instruction would be greatly appreciated!

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No short cuts, pal. Go out and join the military like the rest of us did to learn this. 4 years from now you'll be over the desire to learn this.

[Coffee]

Brian Whalen teaches Landnav. He is pretty freaking good too. A couple buddies took a landnav course from him and got 2nd in the SAC. Great teacher and all around good guy.

https://cprifle.com/

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

No short cuts, pal. Go out and join the military like the rest of us did to learn this. 4 years from now you'll be over the desire to learn this.

[Coffee]

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ROTFLMAO

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Originally Posted by CavSct1983

Find a 2LT. Do the opposite of everything he says. :D
https://pics.me.me/not-all-who-wande...he-5680797.png

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That works until you have personally watched a unit's LTs teach land nav during Sergeant's Time Training because the NCO's were incompetent and could not effectively poor piss out of a boot. [facepalm]

To be honest, I've never actually seen an LT that's incompetent at land nav. But reality need not get in the way of humor.

Thanks for posting these, I missed them in the first read through with your comic. I'm down to go exploring once you're wrapped up with school!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CavSct1983

https://fas.org/irp/doddir/army/fm3-25-26.pdf
http://www.imef.marines.mil/Portals/...Powerpoint.ppt

Once this dang degree is done (juneish?), I'd be happy to join you. Will be integrating this in this season's scouting for a refresh since it's now a rusty skill.

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A Boy Scout orienteering merit badge book was all I ever needed. Was setting up orienteering courses at 16yo.

https://www.amazon.com/Wilderness-Na...s=Orienteering

Excellent book to get started. In preparation for last years SAC, my teamie and I got us a nav coach. Retired SF type. He taught us a ton .

My best advice failing that is to start by walking some trails that show on your maps. Use all the tricks you know about terrain association to keep track of your progress on the trail. Ten or twenty miles of that and you'll have a bare bones basis.

Things I recall being helpful from all those years ago:

1) Pace count in different types of terrain, along with average deviation from azimuth (deviation can be offset with frequent shooting of azimuth)

(just throwing out examples here, not necessarily what mine were):

flat: 67 paces per 100m, no deviation
hilly: 72 paces per 100m, deviation terrain dependent (sloping one way or another, obstacles, etc.)
thick growth: dependent on obstacles. Looking at you with angry slits for eyes, Fort Stewart training area.

2) Don't forget to convert grid-to-magnetic and magnetic-to-grid, every time you shoot/plot, ESPECIALLY here.

3) Handrails, backstops, and intersections/known points are your friend. If present, USE THEM.

handrail -- something you follow which is on the map as well as visible, e.g., a stream, ridge, road (don't walk on the road; it's a handrail, not a path. Stay in the woodline), etc.

backstop -- something you do not advance beyond which is on the map as well as visible.

intersections/KP -- the glory of cross-country land nav is you can go more quickly (i.e., less stopping to confirm azimuth) if you can get to either an intersection or known point as a waypoint. Sometimes a straight-line distance is NOT more quick (e.g., straight line distance takes you over the top of steep terrain which you can otherwise go around).

4) Terrain/man-made objects are your friend, not your enemy. Frequently consult the wise old hills, marked (and visible) radio towers, etc. This is "terrain association", at least in a loose use of the term. Learning to match up what you see on the ground with what you see on the map is a valuable skill. Combined with back azimuth and plotting an intersection of those tells you exactly where you are, assuming you didn't mistake $terrainfeatureX for $terrainfeatureY.

Practice this by comparing a map with surrounding terrain in a KNOWN location.

5) If you see terrain lines start to stack on each other, remember it will be steep and plan accordingly. I'd rather walk fast and go around, providing I have something to associate with on the other side, than go over the top of a steep feature at a snail's pace.

6) No one ever got lost by shooting their azimuth more frequently and confirming data on their map. Save the speed records until you get comfortable. S&R has better things to do than find your corpse, or at least your dehydrated, hungry, hypothermic ass. You cannot get lost fast enough.

7) Moving back to a known position (IF you are sure you can find it), is better than moving forward to an unknown position from an unknown position. However, taking an extra few minutes to recheck your data, have a drink of water or snack, etc. is not a problem. You're not going to get more lost by getting your head back in the game. Depending on the situation, it's not an awful idea to pull a Hansel and Gretel -- leave waypoint markers. Obviously that's bad and dumb in a tactical situation, but last I heard the bear has yet to come over Badger Mountain. On that note, leave the WP markers so they are also visible from your return.

8) There's no shame in breaking out the GPS if you have exhausted analog options. Better to know where you are and reverse engineer your mistake than be tonight's news.

9) Check your damn azimuth! Again!

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I'm open to corrections on the above. It's been a lot of years since I had map and compass in hand and I might be misremembering, phrased poorly, etc.

I like to take the map and compass with me when out hiking known trails and find my location by orienteering. The one thing I always find funny, and is guaranteed to happen, is getting asked if I'm lost.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

No short cuts, pal. Go out and join the military like the rest of us did to learn this. 4 years from now you'll be over the desire to learn this.

[Coffee]

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LIKE! [ROFL3]

Minor quibble here:

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Originally Posted by CavSct1983

Things I recall being helpful from all those years ago:

...

3) Handrails, backstops, and intersections/known points are your friend. If present, USE THEM.

handrail -- something you follow which is on the map as well as visible, e.g., a stream, ridge, road (don't walk on the road; it's a handrail, not a path. Stay in the woodline), etc.

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Unless OP is planning an ambush or trying to evade the law there's no need to avoid roads or trails. ;)

From a tactical standpoint, I get it, it's beaten into your head that you avoid roads and trails but presumably the OP just wants to know how to get from point A to point B without having to rely on a GPS and in that circumstance there's no reason to avoid roads.

Start small. An exercise we did while I was a search and rescue diver was to practice moving in a pattern. Start at point A, proceed X distance to a turn, change direction and go X distance, and hopefully end up at your starting point. Squares and triangles were popular patterns to practice. The exercise was intended to build skill and confidence with our compasses. We'd do this both on land and under water.

You could also practice using your compass while out hiking. Just practice shooting azimuths on landmarks to find yourself on a map. In steep mountains and canyons I've discovered ded reckoning is much less practical than terrain association.