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Having an issue with copper fragments inside the action areas of my new Desert Eagle. The popular opinion is that these fragments are coming from the copper jacket during ramping. The cartridge of a spent round is not marked. Would like to examine the jacket of a shot round without any impact damage. How can I do that?
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I have always been amazed by the pristine nature of bullets, even hollow points, recovered from snow banks. Given your location, however, that could prove problematic.
Load 2 in mag
Fire one
Hand eject 2nd and examine.
Can't imagine how copper jacket will come off of bullet and stay in gun between the time it is chambered and the time it exits the barrel.
Large tank of water or water barrel. Fire from about 10 feet to the top of the water. Recover the spent bullet.
You may want to talk to someone at the state forensic lab as they will have techs who do this on a regular basis and can at least answer your questions.
Be safe.
Can't you just chamber a round and then eject it to see if there is damage to the bullet jacket?Quote:
Originally Posted by porterdavid98
There might be damage that only occurs from the gun cycling that chambering it by hand may not replicate.
Do any of your neighbors have a swimming pool?
Well, shoot one round and eject the next..Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverGP
Knock KnockQuote:
Originally Posted by ray1970
“Hey Neighbor....I noticed you pool.....I have a favor to ask......”
Wait till they go out to watch the fireworks. That should cover it. [Sarcasm2]Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1970
Seriously, guys??? Just shoot one into the air, then catch it in your hand when it comes back down. Sheesh. Easy.
Jeff
ETA, we had a bullet pass through a steel roof on a hangar and penetrate both the top and bottom skins of a fuel tank of a plane in said hangar. Didn't work out when the next pilot took off with a "known full tank" and came to grief later. (Pre-flight check is like gravity, it's not just a good idea, it's the law!).
It apparently happened on the fourth of July.
I was going to suggest something similar, but wanted him to get real answers first before I started clowning around. I've dug bullets out of roof shingles before as well.
Thanks for all the constructive comments. I still would like to post a photo showing what these particles look like but for some reason my phone is not accessing my photos. I have clicked every reference in settings that I can find. Tapatalk is not requesting access. Anyway, these particles are rather large, not like dust but easy to see and feel. No question in my mind particles this size if missing from a jacket would have to affect bullet path and accuracy.
Update: hand cycling rounds shows some scratches on the jacket but no large scars or gouges. Have not had the chance to fire a round and hand eject the next chambered round which should be more meaningful.
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Just to keep the shenanigans going in an otherwise serious thread...
Desk pop.
Then into the attic for projectile recovery.
Just remember, don’t pull the trigger with a dummy round in the chamber without an old primer or the primer pocket filled with something like hard rubber, or your firing pin could become lodged in the primer’s flash hole and make it very difficult to get the gun disassembled without damaging the firing pin.Quote:
Originally Posted by foxtrot
I think these particles are chunks not shavings. Anyone want to give me email address that I can send my photo and in turn somebody could post to this discussion. I don’t know what is wrong but I can’t upload to this forum. In my case 10,000 words won’t do.
Dave
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Here are a couple of pictures that the OP wanted to post up.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...f0bfdc9036.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...bdb1cb71b3.jpg
Thanks to Ray for posting my photos. Not sure why I couldn’t do that myself.
Anyway, I hope the photos show that these fragments are larger than tiny scrapes or shavings. These particular pieces were in side the slide area amongst the two recoil springs, after only 25 shots, 1/2 of a box of 50. I can promise that the gun prior to this outing was fully cleaned and no such fragments existed.
Would you agree that fragments this size would have to affect the flight path of the bullet?
Dave
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Are you positive the pieces are bullet material?
I have no experience with the platform but you don’t have something in the pistol eating itself up?
I’m having trouble figuring out how pieces of the projectile could end up in the recoil spring area under normal operation.
If you want to humor me you could take a magnet to the little chunks and see if they stick. If they’re magnetic you can rule out the ammunition as the source.
Thanks Ray, but the idea of magnetic materials crossed our mind early on. Yes we verified that all the pieces are curved and brass or copper colored. Non magnetic as well. I will shoot a photo to demonstrate that soon.
The next step in this saga will be trying a different brand of ammo and also some non jacketed ammo.
In each case we will hand eject a few rounds to see if that will help point us in any direction.
Like you, we can not account for how these particles end up inside the slide area.
Besides the curiosity factor we need this fixed. But so far our preliminary effort to enlist the help of Magnum Research has not been helpful.
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What does the spent brass look like?
I thought the recommendation was not to shoot unjacketed, because of the gas system. I'm sure you found this link. https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=212553
Why not send it back? I've found shooting into dirt usually produces a bullet that would tell you what the jacket is doing. Though it is a bit rough.
I would like to meet a guy that can concealed carry a Desert Eagle.
On second thought...
If I were going to test damage from chambering, I'd slingshot fully to the rear from maximum slide travel and let it fly into battery.
Hey, I just thought of another bullet damage mechanism. The DE is gas operated and shooting a rimmed cartridge that has a semi-jacketed bullet. Could the rim of the spent cartridge be catching the lead face of the bullet at the top of the mag under recoil? This seems to me like it could create pieces of bullet similar to those in the pics.
I would think this is most likely to happen when the mag is loaded to capacity and difficult to compress. Maybe try loading less than full capacity to see if the problem is reduced? I'd try it with FMJ ball and see if there's an absence of bullet pieces. Then you know the bullet construction is playing a role.
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Well that is a well thought out scenario totally different than everything expressed so far. Thanks for the concept. I will try to find some round nose fully jacketed ammo to try out.
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Sending the whole gun back is my last resort mainly because of the need to involve a FFL dealer and the one I bought/ordered the gun through is 150 miles away. But I am afraid it will come to that. Also, I am not comfortable parting with the whole $2,000.00 gun. I am hoping I can avoid the FFL dealer part by keeping the frame since the issue involves the chamber/barrel/slide but not the fire control/trigger. But what do I know.
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I also have shot these rounds into a 50 pound sand bag and that didn’t leave me anything telling.
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I've sent an entire pistol back to the factory with out involving an FFL, I think. Has something changed?
I thought I answered this one, but I collect all my brass and not one had even the slightest ding or mark.
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Someone sent me the paperwork to prepare in advance and the factory needs to issue a return authorization and include the FFL dealer info that will handle the return.
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Just my 2c, but I would load the mag, fire a round, eject the round that is now in the chamber. Do that until you see chunks in the ejected live round. I had a very similar problem with a pistol caliber carbine and that is how I found out where the bullet shavings were coming from. Ended up being the bullet was scraping where it was entering the barrel. It was just barely out of spec.
That seems a little odd to me, but I haven't had to do a warranty return since our transfer laws changed. I would usually get the RMA and a pre-paid shipping label. I put the gun (in its mfr. padded box) in the shipping box, attach the label, with nothing identifying that there's a gun inside, and ship it. They'd fix it and ship it back to me directly the same way, but with the repaired gun inside. I once received a different serial # back since they replaced the entire gun, but since the mfr. was also an FFL, it was easy for them to do. But maybe the times have changed.Quote:
Originally Posted by porterdavid98
I think mine was before our law change as well. Doesn't matter since OP is from LA and we probably are not familiar with their laws (if they even have any down there). ;)
About a year or two after the new background check law, I was able to fedex my gun to ruger, they repaired it and shipped it back directly to my door.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gman
I believe they told me if the serialized receiver had to be replaced, they'd ship it back thru an FFL, but they would pay for the background check.
They should be able to send it back directly to you.Quote:
Originally Posted by porterdavid98
Louisiana has fewer laws than we do.. should be fine to ship directly to him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Irving
Well apparently I can send a complete gun back directly without FFL intervention provided I do not use the US Mail. I DO need the Mfg. return authorization label which Magnum Research will Provide and the complete gun inside the factory padded case must then be sent Fed Ex over night or UPS priority two day delivery. Ouch, pricey as you already noted. I will work out the details later this morning and Magnum Research said to not be surprised if they don’t send a completely different gun since this one is only 4 months old.
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More pictures that the OP wanted posted.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...edf6d181ee.png
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...3ddb5ff7e0.png
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...2174b9ca6a.png