Talk me into this, 6.5 Creedmore

(We have plenty of talk me out of this threads so lets try something new.)

Here is the situation:
Took my highschooler to the range and he insisted on firing a 30-06 with 150grain hinting rounds. Since he is about 125lb, the results were predictable, lots of flinching. So....

I'm thinking of setting him (me) up with a 6.5 Creedmore, Ruger Predator with the AI type mags. To top it off I am thinking a Luppy AR Mod 1 3-9 x 40 with TMR reticle, mil/mil. This setup is in budget, but could get stretched a bit. The local vendor stocks Luppy and Vortex so other choices around $500 so the scope could be changed up a bit.

Even though I have grand visions of long range shooting, most of the rounds will be on my local range which is 100 and 200 yards. Once we get good enough we may stretch it and go to Pawnee for some longer range work.

Is this a good setup for a smaller teen? I think the 6.5 Creed will do elk so that should be good enough for eventual hunts. Lighter end of bullets should keep recoil managable, and for 200yrds that should be a good enough setup. Mil/mil scope will keep things simpler.

Help me out and let me know what you think of this setup.

Thanks!

Had a friend purchase a Savage Axis II combo in 6.5 Creedmoor and we sighted it in last week down on Fort Carson public range.
New rifle, new shooter- got it sighted in and grouping about a 4" group during break in. After 40 rounds it started to settle down as he got used to the gun Groups dropped to around and inch.
He let his 10 year old shoot it as well with no issues. Light recoil even compared to the 308. Spotted for his son and after calling him in had him hitting steel at 700 yards on range 1. He was stoked!

Sounds good to me, only I would get the 6.5 Creedmoor, it is a little more common so ammo is a little cheaper ;)

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Originally Posted by thedave1164

Sounds good to me, only I would get the 6.5 Creedmoor, it is a little more common so ammo is a little cheaper ;)

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Yes but you get so much more from a Creedmore!


Thanks for your feedback folks.
I will let him get better and then might find a ffp scope with more magnification.

Those ruger american's are a great bang for the buck investment.

1st range report:
This rifle is stupid accurate. The 1st shot was 9 o'clock 3" off. Adjusted it to zero at 50 and lit off 3 rouds. 1/4 to 3/8 vertical group, all holes touching.
Moved to 100, and shot three shot groups on 3 targets. First one 1/2" verical group. Second 2 were 1/4 apart, last was low for about 1" group and I feel like I pulled it. Last set was 1/2 group horizontal. On this one I started gripping the front end tight, before that it was just using my support hand on the rear bag.
This is just using Armscore 123gr off the shelf fodder, and the stock trigger weight.

I think as long as I grip the stock consistently and don't get the barrel hot this thing is a gem. Can't wait to try some other loads and see if it gets even better.

What rifle did you buy? Thinking about rebarreling my Axis to 6.5 Creedmore, and building an AR in that caliber as well. Also interested in being talked into this round.

Ruger Predator with AI mags. Topped with a Leupold 3-9 Mod AR.
Better than just a hunting rig, less than a precision gun, but a great combo.

You would use as a hunting rig though?

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Originally Posted by Irving

What rifle did you buy? Thinking about rebarreling my Axis to 6.5 Creedmore, and building an AR in that caliber as well. Also interested in being talked into this round.

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Before you go that route, check to see if there are aftermarket stocks available. The ruger american will run $400 ish OTD.
http://northlandshooterssupply.com/b...terion-savage/

I already have an aftermarket stock on mine. Isn't the Ruger American just a copy of the Savage Axis?

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Originally Posted by Irving

You would use as a hunting rig though?

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Sure, as long as it's enough caliber for the game.
Also, lighter kicking round should be just right for my teen son for a hunt.

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Originally Posted by Irving

What rifle did you buy? Thinking about rebarreling my Axis to 6.5 Creedmore, and building an AR in that caliber as well. Also interested in being talked into this round.

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+1 on AR in 6.5 Creedmore.

For the price of Axis, buy one. Not long til daughter will be ready to hunt.

Kid will be eligible to hunt next year. I'm going to take her on a hunt if I can, but she's far from wanting to actually take any animal.

Take a look at The Thompson Center Compass. I bought one last year in 6.5 Creedmoor. After the the rebate ,shipping and fees it cost me $207. Great shooting rifle with some good features for $207. All the Factory ammo I have shot through it has been right around MOA. Hand loads are 1/2 moa.

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Originally Posted by Irving

Also interested in being talked into this round.

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It is a pretty solid caliber. It had pretty much all but completely sunk the 260. Factory ammo is cheaper than 308 and hunting ammo is starting to appear.

With proper bullet selection, putting a hurting on an Elk out to 300 yards or so is very doable. Something like a bonded core bullet or a solid is what I use in my 6.5-284 Elk rifle.

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Originally Posted by Erni

Sure, as long as it's enough caliber for the game.
Also, lighter kicking round should be just right for my teen son for a hunt.

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I was thinking more about that specific rifle as far as compatibility with being a hunting rig, i.e. is it too long? Too heavy?

However, I'm interested in the conversation of caliber effectiveness for hunting as well, but that might not fit into this thread and I don't want to high jack as I'm sure it's been discussed as well.

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Originally Posted by Hoser

It is a pretty solid caliber. It had pretty much all but completely sunk the 260. Factory ammo is cheaper than 308 and hunting ammo is starting to appear.

With proper bullet selection, putting a hurting on an Elk out to 300 yards or so is very doable. Something like a bonded core bullet or a solid is what I use in my 6.5-284 Elk rifle.

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Just as a quick mental exercise, would you consider shooting an elk at further than 300 yards with a .308?

I don't have to switch my hunting rig to 6.5 Creedmore. I can just as easily build one on an AR platform and use that gun for antelope or coyotes.

Irv, I see where you are going with this.
The rifle combo balances well. Thepredator barel is a bit heavier then stock (I think) but not bad overall. It should carry well. Kick is less than the 150gr out of a 30-06 and probably good enough for a kid that is 120lb. I'm about 2x that so the 30-06 didn't bother me much, but my kid started flinching after 10 rounds. That was the lightest ammo on hand and he wanted to try a bolt gun that day. He is strong but thin, can deadlift 1.5x bodyweight and do 15 pullups in a row, so careying it should be fine.

Btw, a note on the Mod AR scope. With good light and properly focused, I was able to make out the holes ar 100yards on 9x. That is a huge step up for me from the bargain scopes I have been using.

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Originally Posted by Irving

Just as a quick mental exercise, would you consider shooting an elk at further than 300 yards with a .308?

I don't have to switch my hunting rig to 6.5 Creedmore. I can just as easily build one on an AR platform and use that gun for antelope or coyotes.

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By the time you're done , again, you could just buy a nice bolt action and optics. The 6.5 uses a 30 cal AR lower, so you're starting from scratch.

Well part of this is that I've got some lowers to build into another caliber. I had thought there was a 6.5 that could fit a standard AR lower, but it sounds like I was thinking of a different one. I'm less interested in switching to Creedmore since I've already got a .308, BUT I'm not so deep into .308 that switching would be at all difficult. As I get deeper into hunting though, I'd like a round that will be good enough for anything in the lower 48, which it sounds like 6.5 Creedmore probably would be.

ETA: Kazoo, last time I checked, your job is to help people spend their money, not save it. Get back in your lane!

6.5 Grendel fits in a small frame AR. 6.5 Creed fits in an AR-10 lower.

I wouldn't use a 6.5 Grendel on an Elk. Deer and Antelope for sure.

Copy that. Grendel is the one I was thinking of for an AR. Doesn't make me any less interested in 6.5 Creedmore for a long range rig if I ever want to get into LD rifle comps.

Just tossing around more opinions.

I put some rounds through my step dad?s 6.5 Creedmore and found it to be very soft shooting. His is a bolt action and to be fair I?m pretty sure it had some sort of muzzle break (brake?).

My 6.5 Grendel on the AR platform seems to have a pretty decent kick, more so than his Creedmore. I am just running a flash hider on mine and it?s built to be short and light so that could be part of it.

I guess my point is as far as caliber selection for youth or people who don?t enjoy lots of recoil it?s probably not as critical as the rifle platform and setup. If you don?t mind the excessive noise and a little concussion, I?ve shot magnum caliber hunting rifles that had breaks (brakes?) that had very little felt recoil and were a joy to shoot.

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Originally Posted by Irving

I already have an aftermarket stock on mine. Isn't the Ruger American just a copy of the Savage Axis?

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I have a Ruger American Compact in .308 and love it, weighs 7lbs scoped. The stock required some sanding as it touched the barrel but that?s fixed now and it shoots Barnes Vortx ammo very well. Now that Magpul has released a stock for the American, I?m strongly considering buying an American in 6.5 Creedmore and installing it in the Magpul stock.



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Originally Posted by Irving

Just as a quick mental exercise, would you consider shooting an elk at further than 300 yards with a .308?
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I won?t based on a diagonal crosswind I experienced at Ben Lomond that pushed my rounds 12? off target. Didn?t happen at 300 yards or less but would at 400. My flags never picked up the wind and we were really scratching our heads until we felt the wind while checking our target. So, I keep my shots to 300 or less. As always, yours and others MMV.


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Is it a shorter barrel that earns the compact designation?

6.5 CM is a legit cartridge. Easy to shoot, load and does well on game further than most hunters will (or should) pull the trigger. It hangs (energy wise) with .308 and even some .30-06 loads. Our 6.5 CM 143ELDX has 1450 ft-lbs at 500 yards, our .30-06 180g has 1550 ft-lbs at the same range. That is not enough difference to matter. The .308 is around 1350 ft-lbs at 500 (I use 350 yards as a max for the .308 on Elk).

RAPs are pretty good for the money. I have one in .243Win in a Boyd's 1AT stock.

I tend to look at cartridges in clusters and most of the 6.5 to 8mm cartridges that push 100 to 200 grain bullets at 2500 to 3000 fps MV will be okay for CO big game, granted with different parameters. My max distance for big game is almost always based on sufficient energy to make a clean kill. Not a fan of 6mms for Elk, but use them a lot for Deer down to Prairie Dogs. I like to use .30 or .33 caliber on Elk, but am fine with the 6.5s and 7mms. My 14 year old is using a 6.5CM (Bergara) for Elk and he shoots it better at 14 than I shot anything at 21. My 16 year old uses a .30-06 for Elk. All three of us are using .243Win for Deer this year.

Anecdotal, but I have seen more animals walk away, or not get collected, when shot with a 7mm Mag than any other caliber. Few would argue that the 7mm Mag is not sufficient for Elk. Some of that is just hunting. Practice with your kids makes more difference than adding 50 yards to their max range. All the people (including my Kids) I have taken hunting for the first time have to shoot 100 rounds in a variety of field positions at a variety of ranges over a few range sessions before hunting season. We then use that to lay down a Max distance, shot angles, etc based on their skills and caliber. Blake shot his first Elk at just under 350 yards and it was not a big deal at all. He was holding 8" groups as 550 yards with his hunting rifle and we set a limit at 350. But I have had some that 100 yards was their max, and they had to be sitting with the forearm on a pack. As their skills and/or size improves, they get more freedom in terms of their engagements on big game.

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Originally Posted by Irving

Is it a shorter barrel that earns the compact designation?

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Shorter barrel and stock. LOP is 12.5?. I?m a big guy and mine looks like I?m carrying a 10/22 but it fits me just fine.

I just checked Ruger?s website and it looks like they?re coming out with a Compact in 6.5 Creedmore. Sweet!!!!




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I heard a former hunting guide talking about the early days of 7mm Mag and having lost the most animals with that caliber. They didn't really get into it, but it seemed like part of the problem was that people started hunting with it before there were good hunting rounds made.

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Originally Posted by Irving

I heard a former hunting guide talking about the early days of 7mm Mag and having lost the most animals with that caliber. They didn't really get into it, but it seemed like part of the problem was that people started hunting with it before there were good hunting rounds made.

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That might be part of it. I have seen some bullets pencil through without expanding at closer ranges. Tracked a 6 point bull 5 miles after a friend put a 175 grain bullet through both front shoulders.