How to get better?

Ok, so I started getting to the range more and had a thought: Now what? I have been shooting for 3 decades but not really training.

How do I get better at shooting rifles? What training regimen? How to track if I am improving?
The range has 25, 50, 100, 200. What to do for AR? What to do for "precision" rifle?

I know we have some 3 gun and PRS gurus here. Can any of you recomend a regimen for the following:
+AR 20/30 rounds per session
+Bolt gun 10/20 rounds per session

Also any pointers to understanding density altitude and any other things that will help with bolt guns? I zeroed my rifle, now how do I get from holes on paper to sub 1moa at 200 yards first shot everytime?
I understand there is no shortcuts, but I don't think I even know where this trail starts.

If you don't want to join some matches, look up some popular drills and go from there.

Tibosaurusrex has a YouTube series about understanding the long gun that is pretty good. It's quite in depth and will take many evenings to get thru.

It's no replacement for hands on but the book knowledge has to come from somewhere

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Originally Posted by Erni

Ok, so I started getting to the range more and had a thought: Now what? I have been shooting for 3 decades but not really training.

How do I get better at shooting rifles? What training regimen? How to track if I am improving?
The range has 25, 50, 100, 200. What to do for AR? What to do for "precision" rifle?

I know we have some 3 gun and PRS gurus here. Can any of you recomend a regimen for the following:
+AR 20/30 rounds per session
+Bolt gun 10/20 rounds per session

Also any pointers to understanding density altitude and any other things that will help with bolt guns? I zeroed my rifle, now how do I get from holes on paper to sub 1moa at 200 yards first shot everytime?
I understand there is no shortcuts, but I don't think I even know where this trail starts.

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First make sure you, your rifle and ammo are capable of 1 MOA accuracy.

After that its just trigger time with good ammo. Most likely you wont get there with cheap bulk pack 55 fmj and for sure green tip wont get there.

Semi-Autos are difficult to shoot well with the really long lock time compared to a bolt gun. Follow through is everything.

For an accurate AR make sure it has a decent free floated barrel and a good trigger.

Inside 600 yards density altitude and stuff like that wont make too much difference.

For training just spend some time shooting groups or dots at 100-200 yards with your semi. Don't be in a hurry. Maybe 30-50 rounds. Wrap it up with the same accuracy drills with your bolt gun.

This might sound silly but I find shooting at three to five hundred yards more productive for honing skills.

Why you ask?

At one hundred and even two hundred yards small errors in form sometimes aren?t easily noticed or recognized. Those little errors in technique become rather obvious as distance increases. Also, I find the longer the shot the more focused I am on doing everything right.

Take this advice with a grain of salt as I?ll be the first to admit I?m not the best shooter.

So this training is aimed at my every 2 weeks range trips with the limitation of 200yrds max. I would love to shoot longer range but doubt I will be able to have a weekend free for several more years. Irv, I love matches, but they are hardly the place to work technique or to improve. Matches are great at showing me where I suck, whats wrong with my gear, and highlight what I need to work on, but that's just me.

You should attend an Appleseed 2 day shooting clinic. They are inexpensive ($60) and the instruction is phenomenal, best $60 and 16 hours you'll spend, period. (And if you are a vet, even cheaper at $20) They are done for this year, but usually have 5-9 Colorado events a year at Boulder, Nunn or CRC. The people that poo poo it off as a .22LR event without "real manly guns" are those that could probably use the instruction the most. I am still amazed at how much I learned at an appleseed even with 20+ years shooting under my belt.

https://appleseedinfo.org/

High lighting where you suck is a great first step because then you can select drills with greater focus.

22s are one of the best training tools out there.

I wrote this plan for someone else.

Here's the training program I recommend. This first section addresses shooter skill, not compensating
for bullet drop (external ballistics). I'll address that at the end.

Step 1 - Learn to shoot prone. This is a huge deal. It's the
foundation of all precision shooting. Shooting prone gives you the
opportunity to experience the most stable possible position. When you
are stable, you can work on fundamental skills like trigger squeeze,
head pressure, bipod loading, recoil management, etc. I'll explain all
those as we goes along.

I informally teach prone fundamentals. Failing that, you can probably find that instruction on-line somewhere.

Step 2 - Practice prone. Your prone position needs to be automatic and
instinctive. Once you have the fundamentals down and know how to get
into your prone position, it's time to work it. Basically, you'll start
shooting 5 round groups at 100 yards. You'll strive to shrink
your group size. You'll also strive to have your groups always land in
the same spot on the target. Very subtle changes in your position can
affect your POI (point of impact, different from your point of aim), and
your goal is to be so consistent that your POI is stable and your groups
small. During your practice, you'll be experimenting with a number of
variables like your grip, where you place your finger on the trigger,
how much head pressure to use, how much to load the bipod, etc. During
all this, your body will be hardening up to the discomfort of prone.

Prone practice also involves dry fire. Dry fire is practice without actually
firing a shot. You do everything exactly the same as if you were planning to
shoot a target, but the hammer falls on an empty chamber. It is a PROFOUND
training tool, in some ways superior to actually shooting. In dryfire, we watch
to see how the reticle moves on the target when the hammer falls. We can learn
a lot about what we're doing wrong by observing when and how the reticle moves.

Step 3 - Get your prone baseline. Once you're practiced up and feeling
confident, then it's time to really measure the accuracy of your
gun-ammo-shooter combination. Let's say for the sake of argument that
you can put 5 shots into 1 1/2" consistently at 100 yards. Now you
know the basic accuracy potential of your system. Your goal as a precision
shooter in the prone should be 1 MOA or better. At 100 yards, it's five shots into an inch.


Step 4 - Try new positions. You've got your accuracy baseline, now it's
time to try all the other positions. Your goal should be to get as
close to your baseline as possible. Many positions won't be very close
at all. You should practice as many different positions as you can imagine
encountering in the field. Examples are kneeling shooting off a stump, standing
supported by a tree branch, seated off a log, etc.

Part of trying new positions is learning how to BEST shoot from a given position.
We strive to use bone support or artificial support for the rifle, never muscle support.
This is the fun part There are all sorts of little
tricks a shooter can use to improve accuracy that aren't immediately obvious.

I generally start every practice session with a couple of prone groups just to confirm
that the gun and I are both working as expected.


External Ballistics is the easy part. We can generate drop data (commonly called
DOPE or Data On Previous Engagements) in just a few minutes. All that is required
is to measure how fast your bullets are exiting the barrel with my chronograph, and then measuring the
height of the scope centerline above the center of the bore. If we know the make and
model of the bullet, we input that into a ballistic solver program and it spits out your
drops at whatever distances you like. It helps to know the approximate elevation of the
area you plan to hunt since the bullets path is significantly affected by air density.

Tim hits most of the meat of the subject in his post. Also, for the distances you have available. Buy a good 22LR and use that to practice everything but recoil control. It will pay for itself 10 times over in saved ammo costs over running the big rifles. Plus shooting out the 200 with a 22, is like shooting out to 500 or so with a larger rifle. It's exceedingly good for learning wind calling, and positional shooting.

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Originally Posted by Wolfshoon

You should attend an Appleseed 2 day shooting clinic.

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An appleseed was the only rifle training I've ever had. Learned a lot, even though we never shot at real distance (only 25 meters at the reduced size targets). Had a lot of fun, and knew I learned some basics but wasn't sure if it would translate into actual distance shooting. Last month when I shot at the bailey 2-gun match, I did really well shooting at 300, 500, and 600 yards. My worst stage scores were from the standing position, which is easy to practice using my 22lr rifle at the 25 yard indoor range.

Thank you Tim K.

I only shoot groups when working up a load or checking if my barrel is still shooting. Other than that I firmly believe shooting groups is a waste of time for the type of competitions I shoot, PRS, long range steel..... mostly one shot at a target hit or miss, next target. Shooting dot drills I feel is a much better way to get better at point of aim, point of impact consistency. When I first tried a dot drill several years ago, I thought that should be easy, I got me a one of those sub moa rifles. First time trying a dot drill, 15 1" dots from 100yds, don't remember how many I hit, not many, it was humbling. After that first attempt, shot countless dot drills, see my scores go up at local matches. I do 20 shot dot drills at 100yds with my center fire bolt rilfe, 50yds for my 22. My rifle and I get up and down between every shot, I'm re-establishing everything, cheek pressure, bipod loading..... Two years ago had my first precision AR built, not sure how many 20 shot 1" drills at 100yds I did before I finally cleaned one, it was a lot.

Start out by shooting X size dot, when you can clean it or get 18/20 go to a smaller dots. As Tim mentioned dry-firing, practice dry firing at a single dot, getting up and down between.

I very much enjoy helping new shooters, pay back for everyone who has helped me. Last summer I met two green as could be bolt rifle shooters at my local range. They asked me about how I practice, I went over dot drills, why, how.... One of them took it to heart, the other with the nicer rifle/scope kept on doing his thing shooting groups. Shot with them both at a steel match in Rifle, Co. Dot drill spanked group shooter. Group shooter was convinced scope was not tracking, gotta be the gear right! Group shooter could not maintain point of aim/point of impact.

In general the biggest thing I see new and guys who been shooting for years is poor trigger control. When I first started shooting Hoser's prairie dog match, that is one thing I pay attention to with the better shooters, Hoser, Brian W, Fritz, James V, Chuck W.... how long they stayed on their triggers, follow though. I was taught a trigger drill by a local Palma shooter, sure it's nothing new. Start to slowly put pressure on the trigger and say out loud or to myself, pressure, pressure......trigger breaks, hold trigger to the back and say pressure, pressure, pressure three times, release. Staying on the target the whole time. I've done that drill dry-firing about a billion times.

Offgrid is exactly right. When I shoot groups, I completely break position on the rifle, sometimes even to the point of standing up. If your position and your procedure to get into it are solid, you'll shoot the same group size if you fire 5 without breaking position or if you stand up between shots.

Interestingly (to me, at least), the best group I've every fired was with me standing up between each shot.

Dot drills (like Offgrid explained) and the Scrambler drill are the two that give me the most quality feedback/training per round fired, regardless of platform. The Scrambler Drill is from Manny Bragg, but basically, one target and two positions separated by about 8 feet. Hit or miss, move to the other position, until you get 10 hits. With AR, we do it at 100 yards with a 4 or 10 inch plate. With a bolt gun, I have been doing it at 200 to 550. The position can be anything from Prone to Standing, barricade, pretty much anything from a prior match that I sucked at the most. It helps with patience, trigger control and building the positions quickly, but correctly. Every miss is a movement penalty that, after a while, hurts.

3Gun has become, to some degree, a contest to see who can unload their guns the fastest, so a word of caution if you are looking at 3Gun on the National Stage. Along the Front Range, it has not devolved as much.

Take a class. We have top tier Precision Rifle instructors a plenty in CO!

The only thing I would add to this so far, is to take a class with a good instructor. Appleseed will only get you so far, and the ladder from there is way higher than most even know. A one or two day class with a high end PRS shooter is easily equal to wearing out a barrel or two of your own experimentation and practice. Spending a weekend with Andy Reinhardt or Brian Whalen or someone equivalent will be an explosive expansion of shooting understanding. It will also show you a lot of the drills they use to improve specific tasks. I learned more this last summer practicing for and shooting a team match with RJ Dussart than I had in 10 years of dabbling in PRS previously. I have taken classes from Ron Avery, Todd Jarrett, Matt Burrkett, Charlie Perez, and Kyle Lamb. Short of Matt's class, I made major advancements in my shooting from all of them.

Thanks for the training path forward.

I haven't thought about adding a 22 trainer or steel targets but it sounds like they should be an integral part.

I will revive this thread sometime in the future and report out.

Quick update on progress.
Pistol is coming along, accuracy is improving, accuracy at speed still sucks.
Bolt gun at 100 of a bench is good and about 1/2 or so. Need to finalize zero, I think it is off by 0.1mil. Moving to prone position, and to 200yd bench.
AR work sucks. I think the combo of IMI 55gr rounds and and scopes is messing with me. ( I know blaming the tools...) one gun has a vintage millet 1-4, and combined with my eyes and the IMI it was 3-4" at 100. Just could not get in target at all. The other scope is a Burris mtac, and the huge dot in the center just hard to work with for accuracy. Will try again with wolf gold which I know at least one AR likes. IMI may be relagated to blaster fodder.
So I need a few better scopes or some younger eyes. And also a plate so I can hear if I am missing.