Question about precision dies

Having trouble finding good info on a topic regarding precision dies, and was hoping to get some guidance from the group on a couple questions:

1. Are there any material benefits (either way) to using micrometer seating hand dies vs. standard micrometer dies? (e.g. Wilson micrometer hand seater dies vs. conventional micrometer seating dies)?

2. Based on answer to the first question, any advice on preference between Forster Ultra Micrometer seater dies vs. Redding Competition micrometer seater dies (or others)?


Thanks!


ETA: Here are three links to examples of the different (specific) dies I'm referring to:

Hand dies (uses arbor-press):
https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...prod65610.aspx

Forster dies:
https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...prod59246.aspx

https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...rod109546.aspx

Redding dies:
https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...prod38694.aspx

Depends what you're loading for. Precision, defensive, or everyday shooting ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Great-Kazoo

Depends what you're loading for. Precision, defensive, or everyday shooting ?

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The main focus in this case would be precision, consistency, and efficiency for load development (e.g. speed of load/test iterations & data tracking).

Desired process/outcome (and justification for purchasing the more expensive micrometer dies) would be to develop & test optimal loads at the range, while facilitating ease & speed of making precise adjustments and capturing of metrics and load/dimensional data, which can subsequently be used to dial-in standard dies w/ dedicated toolheads (and various press/process tweaks) on progressive machine for volume production...

Unless my understanding of this is off, it seems as if the best way to achive an optimal balance of high-volume and accurate/consistent production (best of both worlds) is to split this into seperate load development & production process optimization tasks, with each handled fully independently of the other.

That said, I'm a novice with this compared to many other board members, so it's easily possible that I'm either missing something in this or chasing a solution which is already well known to others.

ETA: original post updated with links to specific dies/types in question

I personally prefer the sliding sleeve seater design that Forster and Redding both manufacture. The Forster has the option of a micrometer or standard knurled adjusters. I get more consistent runout using the sliding sleeve design as compared to a standard seater, though I’ve achieved equal accuracy from both. From your stated goals, I’d say get a Forster Ultra Micrometer seater die or the Redding.

Get Zediker's book about reloading for competition, it covers all of that and more .

Don't get wrapped up in the type / brand of dies but if they load straight ammo or not , as an example look at all the issues people have had with Whidden dies .

The Redding seating die with the sliding sleeve works better then a standard die if your loading long high BC bullets.
I like the finish and close tolerance on the Redding I bought a set in 9MM. Precision is nice to look at.

I prefer micrometer seating dies so I can read the changes I make. The performance is similar with most, some are harder to read than others. I use Whidden and Forster, they both work great, but prefer the Forster. I wouldn't bother with an arbor press unless your loading for Benchrest or similar. FL sizing dies control should bump, base sizing, runout and neck tension. Those are far more important than seating depth. Don't get me wrong, seating depth is still very important, but proper sizing is critical. Ironically the best finish I ever had at a national match was at an ELR match. I loaded that ammo with the cheapest dies Redding makes. Measuring tools/gauges are also critical.

I have Redding dies specifically for the precision rifle calibers that I own, and while they are expensive, I would buy them again.

The ability to dial my distance from the lands with ease is very nice when it's time for a new rifle or barrel, but the consistency and concentricity of seating achieved with the sliding sleeve of the Redding dies is worth it.

I have used Forster, Redding, and Whidden. The first two are great and basically equivalent. Whidden is crap.

Take careful note of what Chuck and Delfuego said. While seating depth is one important aspect of a precision round, it's not the only one. Getting the bullet concentric with the case so it enters the lands at the smallest possible angle is a big deal.

I load all precision ammo on progressive presses. For ultimate accuracy (bolt guns and load development) I individually weigh and trickle up charges. For larger volume (Presicion AR ammo), I just throw the charges. If you do your load development correctly and find a nice wide charge weight node, your production ammo can often use thrown charges without sacrificing much in terms of accuracy and SD.

Thanks everyone, this is exactly the info I was looking for!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delfuego

I prefer micrometer seating dies so I can read the changes I make.
...
I wouldn't bother with an arbor press unless your loading for Benchrest or similar.

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This was the main reason I've been looking at the micrometer versions - ability to easily read/record data & spec changes. The question of regular vs. benchrest dies really was more toward which would be most consistent, efficient, etc.

The arbor vs conventional press consideration isn't really an issue here, as the one I'll be using has an arbor-style conversion. These are links to that specific press/conversion (little miffed that currently on sale for $20 less than what I recently paid):

https://www.brownells.com/reloading/...prod64666.aspx

https://www.brownells.com/reloading/...42-158521.aspx

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delfuego

FL sizing dies control should bump, base sizing, runout and neck tension. Those are far more important than seating depth. Don't get me wrong, seating depth is still very important, but proper sizing is critical.
...
Measuring tools/gauges are also critical.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grant H.

The ability to dial my distance from the lands with ease is very nice when it's time for a new rifle or barrel, but the consistency and concentricity of seating achieved with the sliding sleeve of the Redding dies is worth it.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tim K

While seating depth is one important aspect of a precision round, it's not the only one. Getting the bullet concentric with the case so it enters the lands at the smallest possible angle is a big deal.

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^This was also my understanding, and while possible am way overthinking things, the approach I'm taking is:

1. Rather than just running with min/max SAAMI specs, planning to use the following chamber guage for determining max cartridge OAL, and using the lowest "max" number to support chambering in all of my caliber-matching barrels.

https://www.brownells.com/reloading/...491-68249.aspx

2. For case prep & sizing (not counting one-off stuff like primer pocket swaging & flash-hole deburring), what I'm doing to control those variables (e.g. tension, concentricity, etc.) is:

After initial wet-tumble:

a. Using dedicated "prep" toolheads for the 650, which include a FL (carbide) sizing/depriming die (FL only, no neck sizing) with the neck expander removed. Brass may or may not have been deprimed prior to this on a lee hand press, but if not will be done here.

b. Neck sizing in station 2 using expander die body & carbide mandrel:

https://www.brownells.com/reloading/...807-74483.aspx

https://www.brownells.com/reloading/...422-63473.aspx

c. Still trying to decide between Dillon RT1500 vs. Giraud trimmer, not sure which would be best. My understanding is both will chamfer/deburr as part of the cut, and either would be a leap above & beyond the basic trimmer I have now. If it's the dillon, the prep toolhead(s) would have a station die/mount for this as well.

d. Last steps would be final wet-tumble and batch-based sampling w/ case gauge; failures would either be pruned or re-run, but will need to determine appropriate sample size & acceptable failure/deviation rate (if any; this sampling approach is the only part that makes me nervous).

If that doesn't get me to a good place, thinking that the next steps would be adding prep stages for neck turning & annealing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Grant H.

I have Redding dies specifically for the precision rifle calibers that I own, and while they are expensive, I would buy them again.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tim K

I have used Forster, Redding, and Whidden. The first two are great and basically equivalent. Whidden is crap.
...
While seating depth is one important aspect of a precision round, it's not the only one. Getting the bullet concentric with the case so it enters the lands at the smallest possible angle is a big deal.

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^This was another big item where the feedback is hugely helpful.

In the case of certain calibers (e.g. 6.5CM) where Dillon doesn't have dies, it seems like - all things being equal - the Redding Precision Dies make more sense as they come in a full set (as well as individually), but for others where I may already have a set of Dillon carbide dies, was thinking the individual Forster die might be the way to go.

This is mostly relevant to the "porta-kit", as the plan is to have a second dedicated 650 toolhead per-caliber (expectation is to have duplicate dies for each caliber with exception of size/expander dies; one in "porta-kit" and the other on toolhead), set up as follows:

a. A Lee Universal Decapper in Station 1, just to make sure I don't end up with any loaded rounds with a plugged flash hole. Manually checking each case for this (on top of all the other checks) just seems like an overly tedious task which can be avoided.

b. Rest of stations set up in more standard fashion, with drop, powder check, seater, and crimper (as appropriate).

Bulk production priming done at this stage as well, but individually priming for load dev inline (from a selection of primers kept in kit) using one of these:
https://www.brownells.com/reloading/...732-70817.aspx

Also planning to get some additional gauges/comperators for load dev and volume-production batch-sampling; need to do more reasearch on optimally efficient methods.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tim K

I load all precision ammo on progressive presses. For ultimate accuracy (bolt guns and load development) I individually weigh and trickle up charges. For larger volume (Presicion AR ammo), I just throw the charges. If you do your load development correctly and find a nice wide charge weight node, your production ammo can often use thrown charges without sacrificing much in terms of accuracy and SD.

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^This is exactly what I'm hoping to achieve, in as streamlined and efficient manner as I can.


Thanks again for the info!

I'm confused by your sizing procedure. I see you sizing the case down with a body die and then expanding the neck? Obviously, the neck diameter needs to be smaller, not larger, so I think there is something in your process I don't understand.


Myself, I want to size the body and the neck in the same operation. Seems to me that should be the optimal situation for maintaining concentricity.


I've gotten away from bushing dies and have moved to Forster dies that they hone to the exact neck dimension I want. These work great and don't leave that little section of the neck unsized like a bushing. It's cheap. Like $17 IIRC.


I've noticed that the lube step is a much bigger deal than I'd originally thought. If all my cases are not lubed close to exactly the same, I get varying dimensions to the shoulder. Something to keep in mind in your process.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tim K

I'm confused by your sizing procedure. I see you sizing the case down with a body die and then expanding the neck? Obviously, the neck diameter needs to be smaller, not larger, so I think there is something in your process I don't understand.

Myself, I want to size the body and the neck in the same operation. Seems to me that should be the optimal situation for maintaining concentricity.

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More likely that I'm missing something or didn't explain properly, but the idea here (based on research only at this point, haven't ordered the mandrel/die pairs yet to split this out), is that the mandrel-based expansion is able to maintain better tolerances (e.g. size & neck tension consistency) and concentricity over the expander ball in a FL sizing die.

So, unless I'm missing or misunderstanding something (easily possible), the FL die will size the case down first (below target neck diameter), then unlike having the expander re-upsize the neck (and set neck tension) in the same step, as a subsequent step the mandrel will expand the neck back up to -.002 (or -.001 if needed), and will be more consistent/concentric, in part, due to direction of force applied during neck expansion.

The expander die body is universal (e.g. doesn't downsize/compress case), so both downsizing to proper headspace (and sub neck size), as well as expanding to (optimal neck tension) target diameter both occur during the compressive part of the operation, which should support tighter tolerances on the whole...(in theory at least, still need to test).

Hopefully I'm not missing/misunderstanding any fundamental premises here...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tim K

I've noticed that the lube step is a much bigger deal than I'd originally thought. If all my cases are not lubed close to exactly the same, I get varying dimensions to the shoulder. Something to keep in mind in your process.

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That's good to know, and makes perfect sense now that I'm thinking about it. Great tip, thanks!

Yes case lubes matters , Dillon case lube needs time for the alcohol carrier to flash off and the lanolin equalize or you'll end up with shoulder set back issues , I saw as much as 3 - 4 thou variance which is not good . Went to one shot and no more issues, got to use more than the instructions say .

I'm partial to Redding dies , the Foresters are the same construction because they license the design from Redding . The Foresters are black bodies and there is no contrasting color in the micrometer numbers and are hard to read .

I've noticed the occasional variations, but was thinking it was either brass spring-back or operator error. Inconsistent/insufficient lube seems much more likely now, however.


ETA: great tip on the indicator color-fill, thanks!

Also, you need to pay attention to how square the case mouths are trimmed and are perfectly perpendicular to the case centerline. Same goes for your inside/outside chamfers. Inconsistencies will result in bullet runout and loss of accuracy. Learned this the hard way and, for me, I pay WAY more attention to case prep than which style of seater die I’m using.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KS63

Also, you need to pay attention to how square the case mouths are trimmed and are perfectly perpendicular to the case centerline. Same goes for your inside/outside chamfers. Inconsistencies will result in bullet runout and loss of accuracy. Learned this the hard way and, for me, I pay WAY more attention to case prep than which style of seater die I?m using.

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Thanks. This was part of the reason was planning to upgrade to either an RT1500 or Giraud, as my understanding is that either will help address those concerns more effectively.

Haven't decided which yet, but just based on research so-far, the Dillon seems to be more versatile with an ability to handle straight-walled cases (but no direct experience with either yet).

Ok, I think I understand your neck procedure. Myself, I'd skip all that and get a die sized (bushing or honed) to give you the correct neck diameter without an expander ball. This has a couple of advantages.

1. You're working your brass less. This will be good for brass life.
2. You won't need to lube the inside of the neck. I find this to be key to making loading on a progressive press work. Lube in the neck will catch powder and make a mess. Stick powder is not so bad, but with ball powder it's a real problem.

I have a Giraud and wouldn't trade it for anything. It integrates into my process perfectly.

BTW, here's my process starting with dirty brass.

1. Anneal in the AMP annealer
2. Trim in the Giraud. I had shell holders reamed out to hold fired brass.
3. Tumble clean (wet or dry depending on my mood)
4. Lube with OneShot

The following 3 steps all happen simultaneously on the Dillon
5. Size. No expander ball.
6. Powder. Weighed charges for bolt gun ammo and load development on AR's, thrown charges for production AR ammo.
7. Seat a bullet. I use Forster or Redding micrometer dies

8. Tumble for 5 minutes in corn cob to remove the lube

This right here is the best money I ever spent on reloading tools and is still the very first thing I reccomend,

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...4Q-ZzjtOKYJWFB

There is a lot of institutional voodoo that is accepted that is a real waste of time that is tested and discussed in the book in detail.

Tim K- I’m assuming your honed sizing dies were special ordered and they had to take a virgin die to make yours. How long did Forster take to deliver? Thanks

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KS63

Tim K- I’m assuming your honed sizing dies were special ordered and they had to take a virgin die to make yours. How long did Forster take to deliver? Thanks

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It was just a few days. I ordered the die directly from them, specified the neck diameter, and they showed up 10 days later.

Thanks. I think this is the way to go as far as sizing. You can have a “custom” die for less than $100.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tim K

Ok, I think I understand your neck procedure. Myself, I'd skip all that and get a die sized (bushing or honed) to give you the correct neck diameter without an expander ball. This has a couple of advantages.

1. You're working your brass less. This will be good for brass life.
2. You won't need to lube the inside of the neck. I find this to be key to making loading on a progressive press work. Lube in the neck will catch powder and make a mess. Stick powder is not so bad, but with ball powder it's a real problem.

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That makes perfect sense, and seems to get to the same place/result in a more streamlined fashion.

Only question I have would be, how much impact do you see from case wall thickness variations using that approach?

With all forming performed on external surfaces, would you not see corresponding variations in neck ID? If so, would that fall below any reasonable threshold for impact? Contrasted with forming to desired neck ID based on internal contact points (making wall thicknesses less relevant; at least insofar as neck diameter/tension, if not case volume, etc.)

Also, honed sizing dies would be to standard target dimentions correct? (e.g. caliber specific w/ some custom specs, as opposed to chamber-specific from fired/formed case).

The lube inside case necks is a solid point, but I haven't been to concerned with that just because I'm probably over-killing it with the wet tumble (easy to just throw a load in and walk away for a couple hours, and no big deal if something comes up and I have to leave turning a while longer), and by separating the prep and load stages, with final wet ss tumble after prep, hoping not to run into that particular issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tim K

I have a Giraud and wouldn't trade it for anything. It integrates into my process perfectly.

BTW, here's my process starting with dirty brass.

1. Anneal in the AMP annealer
2. Trim in the Giraud. I had shell holders reamed out to hold fired brass.
3. Tumble clean (wet or dry depending on my mood)
4. Lube with OneShot

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Is there any benefit to trimming prior to resizing, other than eliminating a wash cycle?

Also, are you re-annealing each batch?


This is great info, thanks! Apologies for the bit of topic drift from OP, or if any of these are dumb questions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by C Ward

This right here is the best money I ever spent on reloading tools and is still the very first thing I reccomend,

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...4Q-ZzjtOKYJWFB

There is a lot of institutional voodoo that is accepted that is a real waste of time that is tested and discussed in the book in detail.

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That looks interesting, going to order a copy (and one or two related ones that showed up in the suggestions).

Thanks!

I don't know that I can shoot any accuracy differences there might be between turned and unturned necks or between necks sized on the inside vs outside. My good guns shoot groups in the 0.1"-0.3" range, and that's plenty good enough for me. I run Lapua brass when I can, and it's pretty consistent in thickness. Not worth worrying about.

I have my dies honed to the dimension I want based on bullet dimensions and brass thickness. Chamber dimensions do not come into play.

I trim when I do only to make it fit into my process. If I trimmed after sizing, I wouldn't be progressively reloading anymore.

I anneal after every firing. It's fast and easy, and I think I get more consistent resizing and neck tension that way.

Extremely helpful, thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DireWolf

1. Rather than just running with min/max SAAMI specs, planning to use the following chamber guage for determining max cartridge OAL, and using the lowest "max" number to support chambering in all of my caliber-matching barrels.

2. For case prep & sizing (not counting one-off stuff like primer pocket swaging & flash-hole deburring), what I'm doing to control those variables (e.g. tension, concentricity, etc.) is:

After initial wet-tumble:

a. Using dedicated "prep" toolheads for the 650, which include a FL (carbide) sizing/depriming die (FL only, no neck sizing) with the neck expander removed. Brass may or may not have been deprimed prior to this on a lee hand press, but if not will be done here.

b. Neck sizing in station 2 using expander die body & carbide mandrel:

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I would get a set of either Sinclair or Hornady case gauges immediately! These gauges (shoulder bump & bullet comparator) allow you to precisely measure the changes to you bras after you fire them, resize them and what your bullet seating is. I also recommend the Sinclair seating depth gauge. This will tell you where the lands are in your barrel. Without tools like this you are just guessing your measurements. Also get a good set of calipers, they don't have to be Mitutoyo, but good ones none the less. I use iGauging Origin.

Do not mess with primer pockets or flash holes! Just buy good brass Lapua or similar. It is accurate, consistent and lasts a long time.

Do not neck size! This does nothing beneficial and will end up biting you later. Just get a good Full-Length sizing die and be done after one pass.

Neck tension is important. This is where bushing dies or honed dies come into play. A bushing die allows you to change the desired tension of the neck on the bullet. 2-3 thousands is usually good. These measurements are taken from a fired case vs a sized case vs a loaded case. With Forster dies (and some others) you can either give them the desired measurement, or send them a fired case to have them "open up" or hone out a die to your desire neck diameter. I have done this and it works great. I have also used bushing dies to get the same result, albeit more expensive.

Also I always use the expander button on my brass. Some people will say it's bad, I don't care. I have had bad results without it and don't want the extra step of using a mandrel.

If your gonna wet tumble, be aware that seating pressure might be heavier and the necks could benefit from chamfer and deburr after SS tumbling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DireWolf

Is there any benefit to trimming prior to resizing,

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Trim after resizing. Cases get longer during FL resizing. I almost never trim, cause I hate it, only when it has to be done.

Smash balls with hammer or neck turn a batch of brass , hmmm , where's the hammer. Only way I neck turn brass again is if it absolutely is the difference between me shooting or not .

I load in 2 processes on my 650 , brass prep and ammo construction . All the steps that need case lube are completed on one tool head , deprime and size , and the swap the tool head out and load ammo on clean dry cases .

All good points!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delfuego

I would get a set of either Sinclair or Hornady case gauges immediately! These gauges (shoulder bump & bullet comparator) allow you to precisely measure the changes to you bras after you fire them, resize them and what your bullet seating is. I also recommend the Sinclair seating depth gauge. This will tell you where the lands are in your barrel. Without tools like this you are just guessing your measurements. Also get a good set of calipers, they don't have to be Mitutoyo, but good ones none the less. I use iGauging Origin.

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I've got some of this already, although existing case gauges are the basic "good enough" min/max variety, planning to order the precision ones and the Sinclair depth gauge shortly. Have been looking at additional items such as micrometer case guages, comperator/thickness/concentricity/etc. gauges, just deciding which ones are needed prefered.

One thing I may not have clarified is that I'm trying to build commonality of optimized process (excepting stages not applicable to straight-wall cases), with minor variations as applicable, across 11 different calibers (currently), and while the priority-stack may vary a bit, the same overall process goals apply to all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delfuego

Do not mess with primer pockets or flash holes! Just buy good brass Lapua or similar. It is accurate, consistent and lasts a long time.

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Unfortunately this isn't really an option for me overall.

In the case of 6.5CM, have been slowly acquiring boxes of small-primer Lapua brass while working through a bunch of factory stuff originally purchased.

Other than that, I already have a significant qty. of brass which is slowly being baseline cleaned/processed; the vast majority of which is from factory ammo personally fired/collected, but also includes a few thousand (give or take) pieces of other slightly-mixed HS once-fired .308/7.62 brass. Lots of crimped Nato stuff altogether...

Trying to keep minimal at single-pass with swager/deburring tool, and just a quick touch with cleaning tool/brush as needed thereafter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delfuego

Do not neck size! This does nothing beneficial and will end up biting you later. Just get a good Full-Length sizing die and be done after one pass.

Neck tension is important. This is where bushing dies or honed dies come into play. A bushing die allows you to change the desired tension of the neck on the bullet. 2-3 thousands is usually good. These measurements are taken from a fired case vs a sized case vs a loaded case. With Forster dies (and some others) you can either give them the desired measurement, or send them a fired case to have them "open up" or hone out a die to your desire neck diameter. I have done this and it works great. I have also used bushing dies to get the same result, albeit more expensive.

Also I always use the expander button on my brass. Some people will say it's bad, I don't care. I have had bad results without it and don't want the extra step of using a mandrel.

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I'm only doing FL sizing, was planning to stick with that approach.

The main intent of using the mandrels w/ body die instead of the expander ball for is attempting to achieve optimally consistent neck tension & concentricity, without having to be as concerned with inconsistencies in (or known) brass thicknesses.

I'm also still early in the learning/observation curve with this, (and we've drifted a bit off OT), so it's entirely possible that my current understanding/perspective & hypothesis regarding the mechanics involved are flawed, but am trying to close as many knowledge gaps as possible while working through it...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Delfuego

Trim after resizing. Cases get longer during FL resizing. I almost never trim, cause I hate it, only when it has to be done.

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Either way works great with a Giruad. I'm just barely smart enough to compensate for the fact that the case length is going to change after I size. Just barely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tim K

Either way works great with a Giruad. I'm just barely smart enough to compensate for the fact that the case length is going to change after I size. Just barely.

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You have the cool kid tools, why not use them :)


The comparators are cheap!
https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...prod34014.aspx
https://www.sinclairintl.com/reloadi...prod35265.aspx

I would start slow and add more steps if they are needed. I am lazy and do the bare ass minimum.

Wipe dirt off brass with a cloth
Spray lube
FL resize with the expander and decapper
Tumble (walnut)
Prime
Charge
Seat
Done!

Every 3-4 firings I will
Deprime
Stainless Tumble
Anneal

Annealing is probably the step that has made the most difference in consistency, I do mine every 2-3 firings and especially for big batches for money matches .

I still deburr flashholes but uniforming primer pockets is a waste of time and can damage brass with making the pockets to loose to hold a primer .

If your processing lots of crimped brass get a swage from Dillon .

The Dillon trimmer is exponentially faster than a Giraud trimmer but you have to handle the brass 2 more times to chamfer and deburr the cases . When I had my Dillon trimmer I could never get it to cut square necks and it went away and there is a Giraud in its place now .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by C Ward

Annealing is probably the step that has made the most difference in consistency, I do mine every 2-3 firings and especially for big batches for money matches .

I still deburr flashholes but uniforming primer pockets is a waste of time and can damage brass with making the pockets to loose to hold a primer .

If your processing lots of crimped brass get a swage from Dillon .

The Dillon trimmer is exponentially faster than a Giraud trimmer but you have to handle the brass 2 more times to chamfer and deburr the cases . When I had my Dillon trimmer I could never get it to cut square necks and it went away and there is a Giraud in its place now .

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I replaced the cutter on the dillon with a blade from giraud? solved the square cutting issue. For the money the Giraud Power trimmer is they way to go. https://giraudtool.com/giraud-power-trimmer.html

So many ways to go about the reloading process. I believe our personalities play a major role. I'm results oriented. Large part of that comes from being a repair tech and being married to a statistician. Make a change see a result, improvement or no change. No change, don't waste my time and my customers money.

Person who influenced my reloading process the most is Trudy Faye. Several years ago while in Raton for the Sporting Rifle match friend and I stopped in gunsmith Clark Faye's shop, Trudy's husband. Trudy is a well accomplished Palma, F-Class shooter. Won many matches on the national and world stage. No doubt she can shoot. Probably should pay attention to what she does! At the time she worked at the Whittington center, putting 30K+ rounds down range annually. Asked about her reloading process. Surprised how little she did. Sinclair not making any money off of her! She shot world/national matches with virgin brass, no prep, cases out of the box, load and shoot. Her biggest advice to me, learn to read the wind, no reloading step will help you with that.

Most or what I view as a waste of time now is not going to hurt brass. Exception would be cleaning up primer pockets. I did all the stuff Sinclair sold parts for primer pocket clean up on 10 cases, kept those cases separate. Primer pockets loosened up much quicker then the non-prep cases. Waste of time, cost me brass life. Couldn't shoot the difference.

Forster dies are a great value. As Tim mentioned, they'll honed the neck for the desired neck tension. Micrometer top on their seating makes it easy to see where I'm at.

Dies I'm using.

Dasher. Harrels FL bushing sizer (matches my reamer/chamber perfectly). Forster Micrometer seater
7SAUM. Forster FL sizer, neck honed. Forster Micrometer seater.

My process.

After two firings of a new batch of brass, find the shortest OAL. Trim all case .020-.025 shorter, never trim again for the life of the brass. Only de-burr necks after that trimming, never de-burr again. I've put rounds on paper at distance with cases trimmed to the exact same OAL/necks de-burred and cases random OAL not de-burred, could not shoot the difference.

Shot brass. Spray with lube, FL size (bumping shoulders .002-.003), stainless media clean/tumble, prime, load and shoot. Anneal randomly or when all my brass is in the same state.

Regarding annealing, I've put rounds on paper annealed and not annealed, I can't shoot the difference. Brass probably last longer annealing.

See many newbies to reloading do lots of stuff, something you can control. I too was that guy. When in fact to improve shooting, should be working on fundamentals, learn to read the wind....

Once again lots of ways to go about this. Gotta find out what works for you.