How do you handle this?

This is assuming you are carrying or course.

You are in a convenience store, and three drunk kids come in and start making a rukus. You are minding your business and don't do or say anything. As you are leaving, one of the drunk thugs is near the door, sneers at you, and says "What choo gonna do?" while he lifts his shirt and shows you the handle of a gun tucked into his waist band.

So what would YOU do?

I'm a little torn on this because you can likely just keep right on walking right out of the store. At the same time, when you are minding your own business, and someone aggressively confronts you verbally, and by flashing a pistol at you, it is hard to not feel mortally threatened. I'd like to know what you guys think.

This didn't happen to me, but happened to a friend, at a convenience store that I have been in, and drive by twice every day because it is between my house and grandma's house where I take my daughter every day.

Leave the immediate area for your own safety, and call 911 to report the drunken person brandishing a firearm at the convenience store.

Unless the drunk draws down on you, there's no reason to escalate by showing, or drawing your own piece, but good reason to report the implied threat.

Unless the guy touches the firearm it is "legally" considered only a transition from concealed to open carry (not to say the he has a CCW, of course).
If you take "action" without the guy pulling the gun on you, you are,from a legal standpoint, the aggressor.
I would walk away.
The way laws are nowadays,and without a witness,you would likely find yourself in a pool of shit.
What are you going to tell the cops when they arrive to the scene and find the punk shot dead,with his gun still in his waistband and his friends (and likely a terrified store owner) testifying against you?
And what are the cops supposed to think?
It is a very thin layer of ice on top of the shitpool...

I look at it as nothing more than intimidation on their part. But call the Cops and have them charged them with ‘intimidation/menacing with a firearm’ or whatever the correct term is. What are the chances this guy is carrying legally, probably very small ?? Let the local LEO’s deal with this guy. Now if he pulls the pistol out of his shorts (regardless of where he points it), I consider that a threat on my life. Also, I wouldn't turn my back on whoever showed the pistol to me. I don't know what their intentions are and wouldn't want to give them the opportunity to be stupid.

ymmv,
Kyle

That's definitely a toughy! I could see that going down alot of ways, some better than others. These are just ways it COULD go down, not what i would do!!!

He's drunk. Reach over, take it from him than proceed to shove it up his ass! Sideways... Thats the reaction alot of up would have, but definately not a smart one... Unless you KNOW you have the upper hand, and have some sort of super secret squirrel training/great luck!

You could ignore him as best as possible, walk out to your car, get your piece out and to a ready in case he comes out blasting, and call the cops, wait for his dumb ass to try anything then either be a good witness or try and play "hero". Either way, you have a pretty good chance of getting shot in the back as you walk away from him... Pretty risky... best option, and just dont give him your back!

You could draw down on him in the store, prone his dumb ass out, and get the cops there... But who knows if his buddies have heat too... And you making a fast motion for a draw may startle him. He already has his shirt up, so he draws and waxes you first... either way, thats going to be an interesting one to see on the cameras, possibly making it harder to defend... especially if the cam doesnt see him brandishing on you, or the clerk doesnt see anything.

Or you could do it croc dundee style and just show him up (you call that a knife...?) by drawing your S&W .500 bear repellent. ok... this is just getting goofy...

GREAT question!!!!! Would love to hear some answers!!!

What choo gonna do?"

take you gun shove it up your ass then make you suck it.
then........... finish filling up my truck.

brandishing is a felony. your call. BUT never walk away with your back to them.

IF it didn't look like any video surveilence, i'd go back to plan A

Good responses so far guys, thanks a lot. What actually ended up happening is pretty silly and could have ended up going sideways pretty quickly, but no one was harmed and the three thugs turned tail and ran.

Like I said, someone flashing a gun at me while I'm minding my own damn business would make me feel pretty damn threatened. I think it'd be a short and fierce mental battle to decide what to do.

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Originally Posted by Circuits

Leave the immediate area for your own safety, and call 911 to report the drunken person brandishing a firearm at the convenience store.

Unless the drunk draws down on you, there's no reason to escalate by showing, or drawing your own piece, but good reason to report the implied threat.

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Yeah That...

remember this line "I was scared for my life."

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Originally Posted by CareyH

remember this line "I was scared for my life."

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and hope a jury agrees...

what is "dial 911 and cower in a corner"?




;)

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Originally Posted by Mtn.man

and hope a jury agrees...

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I don't think it matters, as long as he perceived it as a threat on his life and there is reasonable evidence to show it wasn't completely unfounded.

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Originally Posted by Circuits

Leave the immediate area for your own safety, and call 911 to report the drunken person brandishing a firearm at the convenience store.

Unless the drunk draws down on you, there's no reason to escalate by showing, or drawing your own piece, but good reason to report the implied threat.

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I would lean toward this unless he grabbed the gun or pulled it out and I felt my life was in danger. at that point it may not be a shoot triggering in my mind but I would blade at a 45 and draw down.[Beer]

If your family is present, does it change anything?

What I'd want to do, and I what I would do, are two different things.

In this scenario, once he's made the overt action of showing the gun after making the statement he did, it's felony menacing, IMHO.

Menacing is defined as any threat or physical action that knowingly places or attempts to place a person in fear of serious bodily injury. It's a misdemeanor unless comitted by use of a deadly weapon. A handgun is obviously a deadly weapon.

If I were placed into that situation, I'd still try to de-escalate, seek a position of cover/concealment, attempt to discreetly draw my gun and wait until the turds left. Or, if it was possible, I'd leave.

However, I do think a person would be legally justified in drawing on that person who displayed the gun. It would be dicey since in this case it's a 3 on 1 situation and that wouldn't be MY first choice.

Frankly, that punk's gonna try that crap on the wrong person some day...an off-duty cop or an armed civilian who's gonna be quick on the draw and might shoot. I think you could make a decent argument that you felt your life, not to mention the lives of others in the store, was in imminent danger and you reasonably believed a lesser degree of force was inadequate. After all, once he's displayed the weapon in a waistband, it only takes maybe 3/4 of a second to actually draw the gun. And by the act of lifting the shirt I think a reasonable person might conclude he was taking that action prior to drawing the gun. That sort of behavior is a good way to get yourself shot.

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Originally Posted by Circuits

Leave the immediate area for your own safety, and call 911 to report the drunken person brandishing a firearm at the convenience store.

Unless the drunk draws down on you, there's no reason to escalate by showing, or drawing your own piece, but good reason to report the implied threat.

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+1 especially if you are already on your way out, and even more so if your family was with you. After he asked what I was gonna do, I would say, "i'm not looking for any trouble" and walk out, and call 911. Now this is what I would do today. 20 years ago when I was in my 20's growing up in Chicago, I did things a little different.....

Quit frankly, the kid is already scared if he is showing you his weapon, and scared people do not make rash decisions. So, unless you are in immediate danger, or someone in the store is in direct immediate danger, and a gun is drawn and ponted at someone, I say stay calm, leave and let the authorities handle the situation.

JM2C

What did your friend do, please tell us.

Man, even thinking about it makes me angry... I like the "I was scared for my life, so I shot him." version...

very good question! Thank you for it!

P.S. So, did it happened to you? When/where? what did YOU do?

P.P.S. I like your new avatar! [LOL]

"You going to pull that pistol? or, whistle Dixie?"




Oh, come on somebody had to say it...[Tooth]

Without being there, I couldn't answer. However, if he showed me his gun, and then showed even one ounce of aggression towards me, I'd smoke him like a big free bag of weed and then draw down on both of his buddies. Depending on their immediate reaction, I may or may not shoot them.

Buddy got into his car, reached under his seat, put his had under his shirt like he had his own gun, hopped out of his car and ran at them. They turned tail and ran.

Sounds like a good way to get shot to me, and not what I would have done. My friend has experience with worthless trash like this though, so he probably had a better feel for the situation than the patchy details version of the story he told me.

Once in the car I'd probably just leave. I'd be fucking pissed beyond belief though. Having someone use threat of force to try and elicit fear from me is a great way to put me in a foul mood in no time flat. Apparently my buddy doesn't like people trying to manipulate him either.

Save all the lecturing about how easy that situation could have gone sideways, we all know it already.

Foxtrot made an important post, and it is important to think through these situations all the way through, in your head, before you get into one. This is a perfect time to do so. You want to think through the scenarios in your head all the way through and not just past the part where you draw your gun, lest you find yourself regretting your actions for the rest of your life. Good job for pointing out the potential reality foxtrot.

I would do a Dirty Harry on the first guy and shoot twice in the chest and once between the eyes and then do a little Joe Cartwright spinning cigarette roll and blow the knees off the other two as they try to bolt out the door and then for the grand finale, I'd put on my Rambo bandana and pull out the machete and start hacking off their...wait ahh ahh what!... WTH? what just happen here... I must have been day dreaming or something, gees I was watching TV land and checking my E-mail and kind of dosed off. All I know is when I woke up Death Wish with Charles Bronson was on the tube and my computer was on the floor.[Ninja] [LOL]Scratch that! I'm hiding behind 7IDL

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Originally Posted by foxtrot

A wrong is forever a wrong, there isn't anything you can do to bake shit into a cake.

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A work friend of mine recently got into some trouble in a situation similar to this one.

He, his wife, and thier two sons were broadsided by another vehicle which blew through a stop sign. My friend exited the vehicle to confront the other driver. Words were exchanged, but no physical violence.

This all transpired in a residential neighborhood where there happened to be people out and about. Two of these people were young men who, apparantley, were friends of the driver who ran the stop sign. They informed my friend they were going to kick his ass. Friend withdraws a Leatherman tool, yes, a Leatherman tool and opens the knife blade. He tells them GET. THE. FUCK. BACK!! They comply...

Someone from the group of people who witnessed the whole thing calls the police. When the cops arrive, my friend, instead of being assisted out of an ugly situation, is arrested and charged with a FELONY!

Fortunately for him, he is 43 years old with NO criminal record of any kind prior to this incident and was given a deferred sentence and will have no felony record if he completes his probation. Totally bogus deal IMO..

What did he do wrong?

He needlessly escalated the level of danger in the situation.

He was running his mouth and talking big shit out of anger..

The lesson? Don't draw a weapon unless there is no other alternative.

The cops will not necessarally see your side of it. They can and will charge a guy with a felony even if no one was harmed in any way...

I've said this before to a few people. I'll say it here. If in doubt, error to the side of cowardice. Tough guys get convicted or killed.

Leave the store, call the cops, give them an amazing description of the retard, and then do a street ID for them. Then, go testify against the retard.

Cowardice, BTW, is fear in the face of danger or pain. Victim's fear is a required element of brandishing and the various assaults. Battery takes physical damage, so you don't have to technically fear it but you do have to take an ass whoopin.

I'll take cowardice over an ass whoopin any day.

if my family is there and I can walk far enough to get them out, then so be it, but if they are in the middle and no way to get out then its my way, they know that, even my kids know "in coming" in a situation as that. They will duck and cover. Me?! well the old soldier and old law enforcement guy in me would have to take one of a number of actions, but I never was one to be intimidated or run. I wont leave the public if I feel there is no other way out for them either. If walking and calling 911 at the time is the action that will preserve the most life, then that is what I would do. But if a more violent action is required then that is what he would get. It is a decision that I would have to make at the time and rely on my training.
Some of you have said that he would have to pull the gun on you. This is not true. 1. he has the means to do harm. 2. he has the opportunity, 3. and this is the point that would have to be decided at the time, if you honestly felt a danger to yourself or others. You have the right to do what is needed to protect yourself and others. No this does not mean kill everyone and let God sort them out. This mean what is necessary. If you HAVE TO harm to protect this is justified, but if the other teens are not aggressive then you can't harm them. It would all depend on how it went down at the time and the immediate threat to life at the time.
In reality we can all train for the perfect situation but that is not what will happen. I have been in shooting situations before, each is different, each has its own response that is appropriate. God willing we will all make the right one if needed, and more importantly we wont have to.

How about just knocking the motherfucker out if he's in striking range?

Just hope an NRA like minded juror is in the jury box if you ever go to trial!

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Originally Posted by rondog

How about just knocking the motherfucker out if he's in striking range?

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If he was alone it'd be lights for him for sure, but since his buddies were there I'd just make my way to the car and phone the man on his ass. I'd be supprised if he was the only one with a gun.

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Originally Posted by Graves

I'd be supprised if he was the only one with a gun.

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...if there is 1, treat it like there is 2...

In this situation, I guess it would depend on how much of a threat I felt these jokers were. My first inclination would be to avoid confrontation, keep my eyes on the punks(s), leave the store, and call the cops with words that include "brandishing" "gun" "armed robbery" and "potential shooting" I'd stay close enough to be a good witness, and try to take note of things like the type of car they were in, the plate number, and detailed descriptions. I may have a permit and a gun, but nobody's paying me to play cop/security guard, so unless there's an immediate and grave threat to health and life, the only person who is gonna know about my sidearm is me.

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Originally Posted by TFOGGER

In this situation, I guess it would depend on how much of a threat I felt these jokers were. My first inclination would be to avoid confrontation, keep my eyes on the punks(s), leave the store, and call the cops with words that include "brandishing" "gun" "armed robbery" and "potential shooting" I'd stay close enough to be a good witness, and try to take note of things like the type of car they were in, the plate number, and detailed descriptions. I may have a permit and a gun, but nobody's paying me to play cop/security guard, so unless there's an immediate and grave threat to health and life, the only person who is gonna know about my sidearm is me.

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+1 for the right answer TFOGGER

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Originally Posted by TFOGGER

In this situation, I guess it would depend on how much of a threat I felt these jokers were. My first inclination would be to avoid confrontation, keep my eyes on the punks(s), leave the store, and call the cops with words that include "brandishing" "gun" "armed robbery" and "potential shooting" I'd stay close enough to be a good witness, and try to take note of things like the type of car they were in, the plate number, and detailed descriptions. I may have a permit and a gun, but nobody's paying me to play cop/security guard, so unless there's an immediate and grave threat to health and life, the only person who is gonna know about my sidearm is me.

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I agree, this would be the correct procedure.

I think this was a pretty good exercise. We should do this once a month (week?).

I would probably be in jail... I would commence on walking past, turning into a IM hold, grab his pistol and firing it while still in his crotch and blow off his small, tiny, weeny penis... Then shoot the other guys with him just because they are associated with the moron. Two in the head and you know they be dead.

Grab a soda and chill with the store clerk until the PD arrives to haul me off to jail where I then commence to take all the useless members of society and.... end up in isolatation...

Where I would commence to.... nvm.

HAHA.

TFogger hit the nail on the head.

BigBear for president.[ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL1][ROFL2]

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Originally Posted by GhostRider

BigBear for president.[ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL1][ROFL2]

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Lol, funny. Not the first time that's been suggested. A lot of people would hate me (like I care) but on the other hand, I would set this country right and get it back on track. What is that track you ask? Read the Consitution and you'll get the general idea! lol.

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Originally Posted by TFOGGER

In this situation, I guess it would depend on how much of a threat I felt these jokers were. My first inclination would be to avoid confrontation, keep my eyes on the punks(s), leave the store, and call the cops with words that include "brandishing" "gun" "armed robbery" and "potential shooting" I'd stay close enough to be a good witness, and try to take note of things like the type of car they were in, the plate number, and detailed descriptions. I may have a permit and a gun, but nobody's paying me to play cop/security guard, so unless there's an immediate and grave threat to health and life, the only person who is gonna know about my sidearm is me.

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Couldn't have said it better!

I like the Crocidile Dundee answer. That being said, if you were ninja enough, you could make fun of his gun, and when he attempts to pull it out on you, knock his dumb fucking ass clean out and take his gun.

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Originally Posted by ryanek9freak

and take his gun.

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It's about time someone suggested this.