Concrete footing and fencing

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06-10-2019, 16:10
BigBear

Concrete footing and fencing

Hi Guys,
I need some help. This might be a little long winded so please bear with me.

We were involved in the past two major hailstorms. To save some money (I was unemployed for two years until just this month) I've been doing a lot of the house repairs myself and have been learning a lot via different sources. I recently completed my garage where I had to finish framing, installed insulation, put up dry wall, mudded, painted, etc. I've done some small electrical stuff like replacing lights, installing security lights, etc. And even some small plumbing like replacing sinks, toilets, etc. I feel like a "man" (sarcasm, lol). Side note tangent: I'm actually 8 hours away from finishing my Doctorates as I vowed after growing up on a farm, being in a military family, and being involved in a major car wreck that punished me physically, that I would never do manual labor. I would get a good job (even more funny, I chose "teaching music" as a profession, HAHAHAHAH) and gladly pay above and beyond for someone else who loved that type of work to complete it... Never say never. HA!
Now I'm working on my back yard fence. It's one straight section of about 50-60 feet. I've already mitigated behind the fence and taken down the trees, bushes, weeds, etc for about a 4 foot distance. Yes, I had permission from the property owner. I've already taken down the old rotted slat fence. I am adopting some dogs so I need a better fence anyway. I had to put my old Buddy down about a year ago due to age/cancer... However, the fence is on a small hillside so I worry about erosion, etc. I'm thinking I need to put in a small (1 foot high) concrete "footing" along the section I'm doing. But in that, I need to put the posts. I would like to put about a 5 foot high hogwire fence in, with maybe about a foot bent under, in toward the yard to discourage any possible dog digging. I'm not disabled, but I do have a lot of physical problems so I want to make sure I'm doing as much correctly up front before I "dig" in. Does anyone happen to have experience in this area or can guide me to someone I can ask questions too? Or even better, does anyone know someone that actually DOES this type of work? I'm willing to work alongside (yes I've read that thread) to save some labor costs if needed/able.

I appreciate the site, thanks folks.

Respectfully,
Big Bear
06-10-2019, 16:48
Wulf202

So you need to know if a footer or buried fence is easier or more effective?
06-10-2019, 16:54
newracer

I would just make the post holes a little deeper, like 3'.
06-10-2019, 16:55
Irving

Having foliage is your best bet to combat erosion
06-11-2019, 14:05
BigBear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wulf202

So you need to know if a footer or buried fence is easier or more effective?

In essence, yes... I think. Would I necessarily need to even worry about erosion? It's not a super steep angle, but a good rainstorm does push a lot of dirt down the hill. Could I get away with just deeper posts and maybe a treated 1x6 attached to the posts at the ground level? Would a 1x6 last?....

Quote:

Originally Posted by newracer

I would just make the post holes a little deeper, like 3'.

I was thinking that but since we are going away from wood slats and want to put in a wire fence, I worry about erosion... hence my question on do I need a concrete, railroad tie, etc type footer to the fence...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irving

Having foliage is your best bet to combat erosion

We are working on that but the fence must go in first/sooner since we are adopting some pups.
06-11-2019, 14:19
Irving

Are you concerned that the erosion will make a gap under the fence, or that the erosion will carry the whole fence down the hill?
06-11-2019, 14:33
jslo

I'd probably pick out a 4 to 6" trench along the inside post line and bury the wire fencing straight down. Let erosion flow through
06-11-2019, 14:41
jslo

If this is, kind of, a temporary solution I'd also consider slamming in a few T-posts.
06-11-2019, 15:04
newracer

If it is void of vegetation buy some erosion mat to put down.
06-11-2019, 15:05
newracer

A picture would really help.
06-11-2019, 15:19
BigBear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irving

Are you concerned that the erosion will make a gap under the fence, or that the erosion will carry the whole fence down the hill?

I think my concern is that the erosion will carry the whole fence away if I don't mitigate somehow....

Quote:

Originally Posted by jslo

I'd probably pick out a 4 to 6" trench along the inside post line and bury the wire fencing straight down. Let erosion flow through

I'm worried that the erosion could eventually affect the house if not taken care of. I thought about terracing the yard and building retaining walls but that would be a huge project and super expensive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jslo

If this is, kind of, a temporary solution I'd also consider slamming in a few T-posts.

I don't want it to be temporary, but it's kind of looking like that may be the best bet "for now".

Quote:

Originally Posted by newracer

If it is void of vegetation buy some erosion mat to put down.

Never heard of an erosion mat. I'll look it up, thanks.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newracer

A picture would really help.

Yeah...I'll try to figure out how to do that.
06-11-2019, 15:35
BigBear

hmm... I took pics but it says "upload of file failed" when I try to post them... help?
06-11-2019, 16:52
jslo

Normally I'd say, this would be a problem for the homeowner, but don't know the situation, don't need to and am sure you already know this.
06-11-2019, 17:15
Irving

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Jc...A=w834-h625-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3J...g=w667-h500-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jN...g=w667-h500-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/N0...w=w834-h625-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qB...w=w834-h625-no
06-11-2019, 17:18
Irving

Doesn't look too bad. I'd personally go with a wood slat fence, but that is just my preference. I'd look at the ancient fence next door to check for movement, as it doesn't look like it's gone anywhere. I don't think I'd be worried about erosion at all.

Here is the thread from when I built a wall under my fence. https://www.ar-15.co/threads/154827-...retaining+wall

Honestly, I probably wouldn't even bother doing anything with yours beyond building a little trench (6"-12") and burying the chain link in the trench. Just make sure that you get a fence tall enough that burying it isn't going to make it too easy for the pups to jump the top.
06-11-2019, 17:38
BigBear

Quote:

Originally Posted by jslo

Normally I'd say, this would be a problem for the homeowner, but don't know the situation, don't need to and am sure you already know this.

Lol, I am the homeowner... thanks for the help? lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irving

Doesn't look too bad. I'd personally go with a wood slat fence, but that is just my preference. I'd look at the ancient fence next door to check for movement, as it doesn't look like it's gone anywhere. I don't think I'd be worried about erosion at all.

Here is the thread from when I built a wall under my fence. https://www.ar-15.co/threads/154827-...retaining+wall

Honestly, I probably wouldn't even bother doing anything with yours beyond building a little trench (6"-12") and burying the chain link in the trench. Just make sure that you get a fence tall enough that burying it isn't going to make it too easy for the pups to jump the top.

Yeah, wife doesn't want the wood slats... happy wife, happy life and all that. Hmm, ok, thanks for the other info.
06-11-2019, 17:41
BigBear

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irving

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/Jc...A=w834-h625-no

from close to porch to see slope of hill

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/3J...g=w667-h500-no

The new fence on one side I did for neighbors

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/jN...g=w667-h500-no

Section/corner where I'm unsure as what to do since post doesn't line up on property line... do I cut the fence and install a post where it should be?

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/N0...w=w834-h625-no

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/qB...w=w834-h625-no

Pics of old ancient fence/retainer wall/etc I'm pulling out to install new... this is what was worrying me about erosion... The last pic is about a foot drop from my yard to the back area.

Thanks all.
06-11-2019, 17:45
newracer

It is likely that the ground level was at the bottom of the fence when it was installed, soil built up over the years higher than the bottom.

I'd regrade the area to create a gentle slope, install the fence, put some seed down, and possibly erosion mat (just to protect the seed from dog traffic).
06-11-2019, 17:51
BigBear

Quote:

Originally Posted by newracer

It is likely that the ground level was at the bottom of the fence when it was installed, soil built up over the years higher than the bottom.

I'd regrade the area to create a gentle slope, install the fence, put some seed down, and possibly erosion mat (just to protect the seed from dog traffic).

Could you explain the "regrade"? I know a huge tractor grades roads, etc... but how would I do that in a small yard. No vehicle could fit back there and there's no road to get to it.
06-11-2019, 18:37
jslo

Ah. Now I understand. Removing the bushes and trees were in your neighbors yard.

Never mind
06-11-2019, 19:14
BigBear

Quote:

Originally Posted by jslo

Ah. Now I understand. Removing the bushes and trees were in your neighbors yard.

Never mind

Huh? I did clean out/mitigate about 4 feet behind the old fence line. I did take down a few trees and pull up a ton of bushes. It needed to be done. Yes it is someone else's property, but I got permission as stated in the OP. I do still need to do some cleanup back there... but this post was about a fence. Did I piss you off somehow?
06-11-2019, 22:37
jslo

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBear

Huh? I did clean out/mitigate about 4 feet behind the old fence line. I did take down a few trees and pull up a ton of bushes. It needed to be done. Yes it is someone else's property, but I got permission as stated in the OP. I do still need to do some cleanup back there... but this post was about a fence. Did I piss you off somehow?

Not at all. It's just me not following.
Originally I read it as you got permission from property owner, so thought you were renting. I then read you saying you were the property owner and assumed the permission was for bush and tree removal from a neighbor's property.
The "never mind" was meant for my previous post and an attempt at some Emily Litella humor, which doesn't really work in written form.
Sorry for the confusion, all's good
06-11-2019, 23:17
newracer

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigBear

Could you explain the "regrade"? I know a huge tractor grades roads, etc... but how would I do that in a small yard. No vehicle could fit back there and there's no road to get to it.

Instead of the abrupt drop where the fence line is I'd knock down that edge along with some soil above it and push it to the downhill side creating a gentler slope. From about halfway to the trees continuing 3-5 feet past the fence line. All could be done with a shovel and rake pretty easily.
06-12-2019, 06:31
encorehunter

Are you able to get a cement truck back there, or are you mixing by hand?
There are a few options I see. Level the fence line with a shovel about 10" wide, set post around 30-36" deep and place railroad ties between them. Drill the railroad ties and pound in rebar 24-36" deep every few feet.
Level fence line, use dry stack interlocking retaining wall block and set the fence back 8" onto your property.
Level fence line, dig your post holes, then set concrete forms. Use maybe a 2x10 on the down hill side and a 2x4 on the uphill side. With the posts 30-36" deep every 6-8', it should not move.
I have been using 2 7/8 drill stem for my fences using the field fencing. So far, 3 pigs have not been able to get through it.
06-12-2019, 12:04
BigBear

Quote:

Originally Posted by jslo

Not at all. It's just me not following.
Originally I read it as you got permission from property owner, so thought you were renting. I then read you saying you were the property owner and assumed the permission was for bush and tree removal from a neighbor's property.
The "never mind" was meant for my previous post and an attempt at some Emily Litella humor, which doesn't really work in written form.
Sorry for the confusion, all's good

Ah, ok. My apologies for not being comprehensive in my storytelling. Thanks! For clarification, I am the homeowner and need to replace my fence. Tangent: I had to mitigate an area behind said fence due to overgrowth, etc, but I did get permission from THAT property owner beforehand... Now, back to the fence, lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newracer

Instead of the abrupt drop where the fence line is I'd knock down that edge along with some soil above it and push it to the downhill side creating a gentler slope. From about halfway to the trees continuing 3-5 feet past the fence line. All could be done with a shovel and rake pretty easily.

Ah, gotcha. I should be able to do that. Thanks Sir.

Quote:

Originally Posted by encorehunter

Are you able to get a cement truck back there, or are you mixing by hand?
There are a few options I see. Level the fence line with a shovel about 10" wide, set post around 30-36" deep and place railroad ties between them. Drill the railroad ties and pound in rebar 24-36" deep every few feet.
Level fence line, use dry stack interlocking retaining wall block and set the fence back 8" onto your property.
Level fence line, dig your post holes, then set concrete forms. Use maybe a 2x10 on the down hill side and a 2x4 on the uphill side. With the posts 30-36" deep every 6-8', it should not move.
I have been using 2 7/8 drill stem for my fences using the field fencing. So far, 3 pigs have not been able to get through it.

No, not enough space to get any vehincle get back there. It would all be hand mixing with a wheelbarrow. Thanks for the options/suggestions! I need to spend some time browsing the Lowe's website and do some pricing. Thanks!
06-12-2019, 13:05
jslo

Just in case, I have seen some small walk behind loaders that fit through gates. Toro Dingo is one of them
06-12-2019, 15:28
ChickNorris

Dingos are useful in tight spaces but can be bit of a hassle with the center of mass & raising the trough on slopes, for folks not used to operating it. I've watched more than one person try to ride the roll over.

I suggest you don't put yourself or anyone else downhill of it.
06-12-2019, 17:24
jslo

Definitely need to get use to them. In the beginning it's like wrestling a bull.
06-13-2019, 10:35
BigBear

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChickNorris

Dingos are useful in tight spaces but can be bit of a hassle with the center of mass & raising the trough on slopes, for folks not used to operating it. I've watched more than one person try to ride the roll over.

I suggest you don't put yourself or anyone else downhill of it.

It is a pretty steep area... I think I'd be fine with a wheelbarrow and some muscle though.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jslo

Definitely need to get use to them. In the beginning it's like wrestling a bull.

I've done some wrangling before... now I'm more interested, lol.