Handgun or Pistol Defense Against Bear Attack

Link: https://www.ammoland.com/2019/08/han...-96-effective/

I almost posted this in in the Hunting forum, but it applies to anyone in the forest.

Interesting, but hopefully I never have to test this.

I think the way that he handled the information was well done. You hear about people not being able to effectively use guns in a moment of panic, which is understandable, but not really the guns fault or evidence of the efficacy. Good find.

https://sangrechronicle.com/raton-man-attacked-by-bear/

I will leave this here. It doesnt mention in the article that the bear died while still clamped down on his leg, or the fact they had to cut the bears head off and transport it with him to the hospital.

The article certainly doesn't "prove" anything but it does provide some interesting data.

I was especially surprised at the effectiveness of the .22 in the cases mentioned.

Good stuff to think about.

I was scanning through the article and was a bit miffed that they weren't talking about what type of bear. A black bear is not the same as a brown or polar. I'm glad they included the bear species in the details at the bottom.

why not just use bear spray? i'm no Davy Crockett but supposedly it's way more effective than a firearm. Btw, i do carry a 10mm pistol as the backup to the bear spray

Bear spray has problems when it's windy. Just like pistols have problems when your buddy is in the way, like in the bear's mouth.

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Originally Posted by Irving

Bear spray has problems when it's windy. Just like pistols have problems when your buddy is in the way, like in the bear's mouth.

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This is why I always try to hike with a slower friend.

... because 9 year olds run pretty slow.

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Originally Posted by Irving

Bear spray has problems when it's windy. Just like pistols have problems when your buddy is in the way, like in the bear's mouth.

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If I?m ever being eaten by a bear you have my permission to take the shot. Hopefully you?ll hit the bear and not me but at that point does it matter to me either way really?

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Originally Posted by glocktoberfest

why not just use bear spray? i'm no Davy Crockett but supposedly it's way more effective than a firearm. Btw, i do carry a 10mm pistol as the backup to the bear spray

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The advice that bear spray is more effective is always sourced to people who care more about bears than you.

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Originally Posted by spqrzilla

The advice that bear spray is more effective is always sourced to people who care more about bears than you.

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Hear hear

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

I was especially surprised at the effectiveness of the .22 in the cases mentioned.

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22LR will absolutely kill just about anything that walks, crawls, slithers, flies, slides or swims on this planet. Just gotta get that shot placement right.

I think the example given of the guy with the Ruger was an example of killing the bear with lead poisoning. Sounds like it took two magazines but fortunately for him two rounds found their mark on vitals.

All the .22 examples were with black bears, too. I'm curious what the outcome might've been against an 800 pound Grizzly as opposed to a much smaller black bear.

I know a .22 will kill a black bear. Mrs BG and I found a dead black bear just outside the fence line of our Bailey property. Cause of death wasn't obvious. I searched the carcass with my metal detector and found one .22 LR LRN slug. Really pissed me off that someone shot that bear with a .22 and left it to die what was most likely a slow and painful death.

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Originally Posted by ChickNorris

... because 9 year olds run pretty slow.

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Especially when they "fall"...

I suppose that's kinda not funny after hearing of the kid attacked by a mountain lion in Bailey last night.

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Originally Posted by spqrzilla

The advice that bear spray is more effective is always sourced to people who care more about bears than you.

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so to be clear, are you saying this is not accurate?

The world record largest brown bear was liked with a .22lr IIRC.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

I think the example given of the guy with the Ruger was an example of killing the bear with lead poisoning. Sounds like it took two magazines but fortunately for him two rounds found their mark on vitals.

All the .22 examples were with black bears, too. I'm curious what the outcome might've been against an 800 pound Grizzly as opposed to a much smaller black bear.

I know a .22 will kill a black bear. Mrs BG and I found a dead black bear just outside the fence line of our Bailey property. Cause of death wasn't obvious. I searched the carcass with my metal detector and found one .22 LR LRN slug. Really pissed me off that someone shot that bear with a .22 and left it to die what was most likely a slow and painful death.

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There was an unsuccessful defense against a polar bear with a .22:

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3. 1 September, 1995, Norway, Svalbard Island, .22 rimfire, Failure Polar Bears: Proceedings of the Twelfth Working Group

On 1 September, 1995, two male tourists were attacked by an adult male bear on a remote island in eastern Svalbard. The two tourists defended themselves with a .22 calibre pistol which proved ineffective. One man was killed, the other injured. Police later shot the bear.

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Police later shot the bear.

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Now you're assuming the local po-po was using something larger than a .22LR. That's as bad as assuming someone's gender.

[Coffee]

I never assumed that at all. I think the po-po were smart enough to use whatever it took.

http://youtu.be/QrFTZohQObw

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Now you're assuming the local po-po was using something larger than a .22LR. That's as bad as assuming someone's gender.

[Coffee]

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That is funny shit right there.

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Originally Posted by spqrzilla

The advice that bear spray is more effective is always sourced to people who care more about bears than you.

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Originally Posted by glocktoberfest

so to be clear, are you saying this is not accurate?

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This was an interesting article, and given where i live and my time in the back country something I've spent time pondering. I would say its just the difference between lethal and nonlethal force. Bear spray's effectiveness will be determined by environment (wind) accuracy as well as the bears determination and recovery for a subsequent attack; the bear is temporarily incapacitated so the threat is still present. Additionally, bear spray would prove unwise to deploy once the attack is on you; chances are you would get hit with some of it. A firearm is lethal force; and if used correctly by somebody with appropriate skills and tools, will eliminate the threat. A combination of both depends on reaction time, so if you deploy bear spray in the short effectiveness window, you may or may not have time to deploy a firearm before the attack is on you. I think ultimately, the use of nonlethal force really comes down to are you OK with the threat still being present or do you want the threat eliminated. Whichever is fine as long as you are aware of the possible outcomes and are prepared for whatever you choose to do. Like anything security related preparedness and situational awareness are key.

I disagree with the idea that it would be unwise to deploy spray during an attack. I'll post the podcast that goes indepth to a lady's grizzly attack to support my position when I get home.

What about bear flares? [Peep]

So, I'm reminded of two things by the posts in this thread.

First, images from a 1979 movie called "Prophecy" come to mind.

Second, (in response to the comments about a 9 year old) I was reminded of the video where a family is attacked by a buffalo and the parents bail and leave their daughter to face the wrath of the buffalo.

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Originally Posted by ray1970

So, I'm reminded of two things by the posts in this thread.

First, images from a 1979 movie called "Prophecy" come to mind.

Second, (in response to the comments about a 9 year old) I was reminded of the video where a family is attacked by a buffalo and the parents bail and leave their daughter to face the wrath of the buffalo.

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Bingo

My knowledge of bears basically comes from internet videos, but i'm starting to head into the rockies on a regular basis with my sons. So i feel like I need to ramp up fast on what really works and what doesnt. If a bear was charging at me, i wouldn't try bear spray, I'd be mag dumping the 10mm. What i'm imagining with all these 22 bear shootings in the OP is a little black bear looking for food and getting shot in the eye. Some of them seem like big lazy animals -- not charging grizzlies like the one in that movie Revenant. If a curious bear came up to my campsite, I would probably spray first and shoot second. Hopefully, i'll never have to find out how effective bear spray is.

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Originally Posted by MED

This was an interesting article, and given where i live and my time in the back country something I've spent time pondering. I would say its just the difference between lethal and nonlethal force. Bear spray's effectiveness will be determined by environment (wind) accuracy as well as the bears determination and recovery for a subsequent attack; the bear is temporarily incapacitated so the threat is still present. Additionally, bear spray would prove unwise to deploy once the attack is on you; chances are you would get hit with some of it. A firearm is lethal force; and if used correctly by somebody with appropriate skills and tools, will eliminate the threat. A combination of both depends on reaction time, so if you deploy bear spray in the short effectiveness window, you may or may not have time to deploy a firearm before the attack is on you. I think ultimately, the use of nonlethal force really comes down to are you OK with the threat still being present or do you want the threat eliminated. Whichever is fine as long as you are aware of the possible outcomes and are prepared for whatever you choose to do. Like anything security related preparedness and situational awareness are key.

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Originally Posted by glocktoberfest

My knowledge of bears basically comes from internet videos, but i'm starting to head into the rockies on a regular basis with my sons. So i feel like I need to ramp up fast on what really works and what doesnt. If a bear was charging at me, i wouldn't try bear spray, I'd be mag dumping the 10mm. What i'm imagining with all these 22 bear shootings in the OP is a little black bear looking for food and getting shot in the eye. Some of them seem like big lazy animals -- not charging grizzlies like the one in that movie Revenant. If a curious bear came up to my campsite, I would probably spray first and shoot second. Hopefully, i'll never have to find out how effective bear spray is.

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A couple years ago, I walked out my front door with a black bear pretty close on my driveway. My GSD let out one loud bark, and that thing was running so fast to the other end of my five acre lot that I barely had time to get a pic after it was almost out of sight. Black bears really want nothing to do with people and especially dogs unless they have been desensitized with trash, food, and other crap that people leave out for them to rummage through. I have bear scat all over my lot, and I really don't see them that much. They absolutely stay away from large dogs...don't want any part of that so if you have one (especially two), they will stay away from you. They are dangerous in the spring when they are hungry especially the early springs when there is no food. My neighbor had a lama taken down by one in the early spring, which was pretty impressive and they have left deer kills on my lot in the spring. They are the most dangerous when you enter a sow's territory where she has her cubs. I think situational awareness is your best tool. You can clearly see when you are in their territory if you are looking. All the years I lived up here in bear, mountain lion, and bobcat territory I've never had an issue with the kids and GSDs hanging out on my lot or campsite during the day...however, evening time come in the house. My only close call in the back country was seeing fresh cat tracks along the river bank from a cat that I scared off before I saw it; that could have been a bad situation. Brown bears are far more confident and very powerful animals; stay vigilant in their territory because they will absolutely challenge you if they see you as a threat or if you have something they want like a fresh kill. My niece has a cabin up by Leadville; her biggest encounter at this point hiking the trails up there was with another dog attacking her dog causing a lot of damage. She carries bear spray to protect her dogs, and her CCW to protect herself.

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Originally Posted by MED

A couple years ago, I walked out my front door with a black bear pretty close on my driveway. My GSD let out one loud bark, and that thing was running so fast to the other end of my five acre lot that I barely had time to get a pic after it was almost out of sight. Black bears really want nothing to do with people and especially dogs unless they have been desensitized with trash, food, and other crap that people leave out for them to rummage through. I have bear scat all over my lot, and I really don't see them that much. They absolutely stay away from large dogs...don't want any part of that so if you have one (especially two), they will stay away from you. They are dangerous in the spring when they are hungry especially the early springs when there is no food. My neighbor had a lama taken down by one in the early spring, which was pretty impressive and they have left deer kills on my lot in the spring. They are the most dangerous when you enter a sow's territory where she has her cubs. I think situational awareness is your best tool. You can clearly see when you are in their territory if you are looking. All the years I lived up here in bear, mountain lion, and bobcat territory I've never had an issue with the kids and GSDs hanging out on my lot or campsite during the day...however, evening time come in the house. My only close call in the back country was seeing fresh cat tracks along the river bank that I scared off before I saw it; that could have been a bad situation. Brown bears are far more confident and very powerful animals; stay vigilant in their territory because they will absolutely challenge you if they see you as a threat or if you have something they want like a fresh kill. My niece has a cabin up by Leadville; her biggest encounter at this point hiking the trails up there was with another dog attacking her dog causing a lot of damage. She carries bear spray to protect her dogs, and her CCW to protect herself.

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Agree with this all the way.

Here is the podcast about a grizzly attack: https://www.themeateater.com/listen/...d-by-a-grizzly
This one is good and covers a lot of things. These guys have a two part podcast covering the time their group was attacked by a grizzly when they were hunting with Remi Warren as well.

Here is Remi's short version and general bear tips podcast. https://www.themeateater.com/listen/...n-bear-country

i'm glad to hear this. i really have no desire to see let alone shoot a bear. Or a lion.

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Originally Posted by MED

A couple years ago, I walked out my front door with a black bear pretty close on my driveway. My GSD let out one loud bark, and that thing was running so fast to the other end of my five acre lot that I barely had time to get a pic after it was almost out of sight. Black bears really want nothing to do with people and especially dogs unless they have been desensitized with trash, food, and other crap that people leave out for them to rummage through. I have bear scat all over my lot, and I really don't see them that much. They absolutely stay away from large dogs...don't want any part of that so if you have one (especially two), they will stay away from you. They are dangerous in the spring when they are hungry especially the early springs when there is no food. My neighbor had a lama taken down by one in the early spring, which was pretty impressive and they have left deer kills on my lot in the spring. They are the most dangerous when you enter a sow's territory where she has her cubs. I think situational awareness is your best tool. You can clearly see when you are in their territory if you are looking. All the years I lived up here in bear, mountain lion, and bobcat territory I've never had an issue with the kids and GSDs hanging out on my lot or campsite during the day...however, evening time come in the house. My only close call in the back country was seeing fresh cat tracks along the river bank from a cat that I scared off before I saw it; that could have been a bad situation. Brown bears are far more confident and very powerful animals; stay vigilant in their territory because they will absolutely challenge you if they see you as a threat or if you have something they want like a fresh kill. My niece has a cabin up by Leadville; her biggest encounter at this point hiking the trails up there was with another dog attacking her dog causing a lot of damage. She carries bear spray to protect her dogs, and her CCW to protect herself.

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Good article pointing out that bear spray has been oversold based on one study.

https://www.outsideonline.com/240124...ear-spray-work

Bad reporting of studies is bad news from every direction. Bear spray could be 98% effective, but we wouldn't know because of the inadequacies of the study. Seems like to either place ones trust in a product that doesn't work, or not use a product that does work because you're gun shy due to bad reporting and misleading marketing are equally as bad.

There are multiple documented cases where a brown bear sprayed with OC will come back in a hour or so to the spot it occurred. They roll around in the remnants of the spray. I did a short paper on it in college. If you use OC/CS bear spray, prepare for them to come back.

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Originally Posted by SA Friday

There are multiple documented cases where a brown bear sprayed with OC will come back in a hour or so to the spot it occurred. They roll around in the remnants of the spray. I did a short paper on it in college. If you use OC/CS bear spray, prepare for them to come back.

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If I pepper spray a bear and it comes back an hour later I won?t have to worry about it finding me as I?ll be long gone. Probably be heading for the house to change my dirty underpants from the initial encounter.

Same thing for arsonists.

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Originally Posted by SA Friday

There are multiple documented cases where a brown bear sprayed with OC will come back in a hour or so to the spot it occurred. They roll around in the remnants of the spray. I did a short paper on it in college. If you use OC/CS bear spray, prepare for them to come back.

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Yep, when I was in Alaska the forestry/similar industry guys would always stick to a 15 minute rule as far as packing up camp and getting the fuck out of dodge.

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Originally Posted by Irving

Same thing for arsonists.

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Very few of them will eat you when they come back to the scene, though.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

Very few of them will eat you when they come back to the scene, though.

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Might depend on how thick the smoke ring is or if you're charred.

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Originally Posted by ChickNorris

Might depend on how thick the smoke ring is or if you're charred.

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Joke stealer!