Monumental Gun-Policy Failure

Link to story regarding new Ft Hood firearms policy:

http://www.kdhnews.com/news/story.aspx?s=37843

Why do some people feel they "have to do something" even when that "something" is totally ridiculous and will accomplish nothing?

The commanding general at Ft Hood, Lt Gen Cone, has signed this regulation apparently without any thought as to what it might accomplish in the wake of the Ft Hood terror attack. At least no one said, "If this regulation had been in place prior to Nov 5 Hasan wouldn't have been able to take his guns on to the post." That probably would have caused a blown gasket in my skull.

What we have here is knee-jerking at it's finest. All persons residing on Ft Hood have to register their firearms. All persons bringing bringing firearms on to the post have to declare them. Am I missing something? Isn't that pretty much the way it was before? Are "all persons" the problem here?

I say "NO", I'm not missing anything, nothing has really changed and "all persons" are not the problem. But of course, in today's society the status quo dictates that in the wake of a tragedy we "NEED" to pass laws or institute regulations designed to make the law-abiding more law-abiding. We "NEED" to institue regulations that will only inconvenience or harass the people who are exactly the ones we don't need to inconvenience or harass. We "NEED" to take these measures to protect the innocent from criminals who don't give a rat's ass about the new laws or regulations, and who won't follow the new laws or regulations. Innocents who ultimately won't be protected by the new laws and regulations.

With this nonsense nothing changes in terms of the risks posed to the unarmed. To those who comply nothing has changed except there are now more hoops to jump through, more inconveniences to be endured, more freedoms to be given up. To those who don't comply nothing has changed. They're not inconvenienced, they're not stopped from doing what they want to do, they've given up no freedoms.

Every day I see more and more why people want to, and many ultimately do, distance themselves from our government and society. I am so disgusted with what our society has become in the name of safety and security.

This sort of thing disgusts me to no end.

What a joke! I've never been on a base, but I imagine that if you lived there, it would only taking going through the gate for about a week before the guards on duty recognize you and let you through without much of a hassle. I imagine it would be extremely easy to sneak a veritable arsenal onto the base without much trouble. For example, how many long guns could you tie wrap to the under carriage of your car/truck and drive them through without a second glance?

Can we get input on this from people who actually know?

During heightened security measures they will often use mirrors to check under cars for questionable materials...

Now, breaking down a rifle and putting it under the back seat, that would pretty easy and quickly accessible, depending on the vehicle.

Sure, during heightened security measures, but how many days a year is the base in that condition?

Just more examples of written rules/laws only effecting the people that weren't breaking them in the first place.

Stuart, it's not so much a factor of the guards on the gates becoming familiar with you as it is the sheer size of the installation.

Imagine the City of Littleton as a military base where it was necessary to allow thousands of people and associated vehicles in and out, sometimes numerous times for any given vehicle, through a number of entry positions, and you start to see the problem.

Security is by nature going to be limited. It would be nearly impossible to do a lot more than to just look at the base sticker on the windshield and wave the vehicle through. Even during heightened security they'll do random checks or search random or a few targeted vehicles. They just can't do any more than that and still keep the base functioning. You could literally drive an army on to the base without anyone being stopped, questioned or searched. Actually, come to think of it, that DOES happen every day.

Getting firearms on to that base, or nearly any other, is not going to be a problem. At all. Committing crimes with said smuggled firearms is not going to be a problem at all. You'll eventually face armed resistance...but it's gonna be too late for a lot of innocent people.

We know that for a fact and nothing has changed since we learned that. The bad guys are still free to operate, the good guys are a little less safe despite so-called "increased security measures".

I've been on quite a few bases (Permeasen, Germany before it was shut down, Ft. Hood, Ft. Knox, Ft. Benning, etc) and while they do have "security" it is quite easy to sneak stuff in. A lot of times if you have a lot of stuff in the back/trunk (groceries, bags, etc) they won't go through it. Most handguns and a lot of rifles will feild strip down into them quite easily. A single guy they usually don't mess with, but when teh car is loaded with four or five guys, they do a literal strip search, lol.

My experience has been just the opposite. 14 years of driving on off base while I was in and I never was in a vehicle that was searched. Very rarely the gate securtiy guy would stop the car and check ID's. That happened more at Offutt AFB (the former SAC HQ) than anywhere else. When they did that everyone had to show ID upon entering. Took about an extra 5-10 seconds per car assuming everyone had their ID ready to go. It caused such a goat-f**k that it would only be done in off hours and only when a heightened risk was expected.

Generally, if you have what appears to be a valid base sticker, you're waved through. Some of the isolated entry points will oftentimes have more stringent inspection procedures in place because they deal with far fewer vehicles.

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

My experience has been just the opposite. 14 years of driving on off base while I was in and I never was in a vehicle that was searched. Very rarely the gate securtiy guy would stop the car and check ID's. That happened more at Offutt AFB (the former SAC HQ) than anywhere else. When they did that everyone had to show ID upon entering. Took about an extra 5-10 seconds per car assuming everyone had their ID ready to go. It caused such a goat-f**k that it would only be done in off hours and only when a heightened risk was expected.

Generally, if you have what appears to be a valid base sticker, you're waved through. Some of the isolated entry points will oftentimes have more stringent inspection procedures in place because they deal with far fewer vehicles.

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All AFB's are 100% ID checks (driver usually, all when heightened) and window stickers are no longer issued or used.

I stand corrected...course I haven't been on an AFB since 97. My son is stationed at Ft Hood...they give you the casual wave on to the post. He still has a sticker...or did last year.

I run the marksmanship teams for our unit, so I am authorized to take issued weapons on and off base, but in all the times I've brought those weapons on and off I've never even been asked about it when I've had the case in the back. I actually asked a buddy of mine who's an SP and his response was that they were not as concerned about small arms as other things. I bet that changes here VERY soon.

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Originally Posted by Ridge

During heightened security measures they will often use mirrors to check under cars for questionable materials...

Now, breaking down a rifle and putting it under the back seat, that would pretty easy and quickly accessible, depending on the vehicle.

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AF bases are required to perform RAM's (Random Anti-Terrorism Measures) daily. These can be simple measures the average person never see's to searching every third vehicle through the gate. Of course, with heightened security comes increased measures. When I had to search vehicles, I checked under the seats (including the rear seat), under the dash, in the spare tire well, etc. on every vehicle I "inspected". Some inspections are less intense, some are worse. I wouldn't want to be the person found to have a firearm in my vehicle during one of these searches.

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Originally Posted by SA Friday

All AFB's are 100% ID checks (driver usually, all when heightened) and window stickers are no longer issued or used.

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That isn't completely accurate. While I can't speak for every base, I do know that some AF bases will still register vehicles and issue DD Form 2220's - on request. The main reason AF folks in the Springs want to get the decals is because Fort Carson still requires all vehicles to be registered or have a pass. If you don't want to wait around every time for a pass (like when you want to go the the P.X. and especially if you are on your way to Evans Community Hospital), it's just smarter to have a decal on your car. Of course, you still have to stop and show your ID.