So much for transparency. I think what the Communist dictator meant was Tyranny noy transparency.
Well I ask you, does America break out the KY or the Tar and Feathers?
Moon.
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So much for transparency. I think what the Communist dictator meant was Tyranny noy transparency.
Well I ask you, does America break out the KY or the Tar and Feathers?
Moon.
I assume you are talking about the O, but what specifically are you talking about? Health Care? TORT Reform? What?Quote:
Originally Posted by Calvin
Can you elaborate a bit? Most of the guys here are happy to share in your disgust for our inspirational leader, we just want to know what exactly we're bitching about...[LOL]
Supposedly, the thugs (Senate) is voting on the healthcare bill at 1:00 am this Monday morning. About as slimy as it gets fellas.
Perhaps we should all get together and welcome our traitors Spudall and smegget when they arrive back home, you know, just to say thanks.
Moon.
Yeah I heard they are supposed to vote tonight. I hope some of them get stuck in the storms, or worse. fuck these slimy bastards. they are destroying this country for the citizens and taking everything for themselves. soon there will be nothing left to take.
I believe it was Alexander Hamilton that said we need a revolution every 200 years. We aren't too far off.
I know that many of the things we bitch about today (the '86 machine gun registry ban for instance) were passed in the middle of the night, however I'm confused. If it is up to the people who are voting, why does it matter what time they make the vote at? My American Government knowledge is rusty.
If it was good for America, they would do it in plain sight for all eyes to see. Unfortunately for us, they do it in the cover of darkness, thinking that no one is watching.
Moon.
Well, what one has to realize about liberals is that they actually believe they are going to help people. While their intent is noble, the consequenses can be dire. I have long believed our politicians, with a few exceptions, are completely detached from reality.
I think a lot of people would agree our current health care system has problems and offers much room for improvement. Some reform is probably necessary, but not what the Dems are proposing. I think it is probably a good thing that this particular bill is a somewhat watered down version of what was being proposed. A public option would have spiraled out of control in terms of cost and scope.
Actually I think this so called health care reform has been brewing for a long time. The way I look at it, when we have a system that frequently bankrupts people with high medical bills, a substantial number of people are going to cry foul. Rightfully so. Unfortunately, the target of the collective anger has been misidentified. The solutions proposed thus far will only make worse the problems they were intended to solve. This is what I mean by detachment from reality.
Ok. A couple of practical examples:
The DMV... I'm sure we all have nightmare stories about of what a clusterfuck that experience can be.. Seriously, how hard can it be to issue license plates and titles?
The DOT.. When was the last time any highway project was completed on schedule at any price even aproximating it's budget?
I used these two examples as a way to illustrate the type of inefficency and beaurocratic interference typical of anything run by the government. Do we really want these same people in charge of our healthcare?
I have some thoughts on what I think would be a better solution, but I'm too tired right now and I'm tired of typing. Maybe I'll post them tomorrow..
we were sold out (surprise!) 60/40 final vote
we can start something.. Here in CO, we can recall our senators.
http://www.i2i.org/Publications/Colo...on/cnart21.htm
Senators/congressmen, et al would actually read the bills and sand on their electoral "promises" if they were held to the same standards. For instance (one out of a million instances I could probably recall) Did you know that the passed health care (mandatory or fine) "option" does not include the House or Senate? That is correct, they have their own health care system (all free to them with use of the best doctors America has to offer of their choice) paid by the taxpayers.
They pass stuff in the middle of the night because the offices are "closed" then and they do not "have" to respond to telephone calls from their constituents. Also, they are too busy gambling, fornicating, and wasting money during the day to be bothered by voting or doing thier job.
so now how do we stop it from gaining full passage? that is what it all comes down to. we have 3 days.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper7
Bottom line: You dont.
There are enough people willing to call, travel there, etc. But not enough who WOULD. They are going to pass the bill even if 99% of the populace is against it. Why? Because there are so many earmarks for sideprojects in the bill that will make them personal money that it would be stupid NOT to pass it... regardless of if it throws the nation on an undesireable path. Who cares if they don't get re-elected? By the time thier term is up, they will have enough money and connections to never have to worry about a job or money again (if they are smart stewards of the money). The world is run by greed and money. If you have money, you can do whatever the heck you want. If you don't, you are a slave.
People do not have the backbone to stand up and fight anymore. We are too aware of what we "could" lose. Too cognizant of the mental anguish the nation would face to turn things around to the Founders original intention. We would be labled hypocrites, racists, religous fanatics.... Our nation is too imbedded in the political correctness nature to ever turn around.
The mentality of equalism has led to the point of where we MUST take care of everyone regardless of their situation, that they of course are not repsonsible for. The habitual crack mom who sleeps around and can't take care of her babies? It's ok, we'll get her in a rehab program and put the kids with protective services. No mention that the process is messed up. Drug rehab's are a physical pain during withdrawal, but it does nothing for the mental cause of the affliction. As soon as they are clean, they are release back onto the streets where once again, they cognizantly know no other way but drugs to dampen the pain of their life.
The guy who can't find a job? I GARUNTEE you if we get rid of welfare there will such an influx of the worker populace that we will be forced to tighten the borders on immigration. We hear the line of "immigrants are essential to do the jobs that Americans won't do"...Excuse me? If it will put food on my table for my family, I'll give the cow a blowjob! Welfare is a way for the government to garner votes and a positive rating to those lazy @!#$^^& who won't get off their butt. After all, why should they? They've had such a "hard life" and "it's about time that I get taken care of".
Don't get me wrong, immigration is what made this country such a wonderful place. And yes, we need certain welfare for certain individuals such as disabled vets, etc. Lord... I need to stop. Sorry, didn't mean to get on my soapbox...
This Healthbill is just ridiculous and they know it! You will get fined for NOT having health care? If you can't afford health care how are you going to afford the fine?!?!?!?!
They think it is better to pass "something" than not to pass anything at all.
I was born a few hundred years too late.... grr.
I like the cockroach analogy. At least that way, all we'd have to do is go get a can of spray. Problem solved.
7idl -
Well - let's start the wheels for a recall.
Udall and Bennet are not doing the job they were elected to do and swore an oath to fufill. REPRESENTING the voters of their state and support and defend the Constitution.
US Senate Oath of Office
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God. "
On further research regarding recall of Senators:
http://lugar.senate.gov/services/pdf...rom_Office.pdf
As to removal by recall, the United States Constitution does not provide for nor authorize the recall of United States officers such as Senators, Representatives, or the President or Vice President, and thus no Member of Congress has ever been recalled in the history of the United States. The recall of Members was considered during the time of the drafting of the federal Constitution in 1787, but no such provisions were included in the final version sent to the States for ratification, and the specific drafting and ratifying debates indicate an express understanding of the Framers and ratifiers that no right or power to recall a Senator or Representative from the United States Congress exists under the Constitution. Although the Supreme Court has not needed to directly address the subject of recall of Members of Congress, other Supreme Court decisions, as well as the weight of other judicial and administrative decisions, rulings and opinions, indicate that: (1) the right to remove a Member of Congress before the expiration of his or her constitutionally established term of office is one which resides exclusively in each House of Congress as established in the expulsion clause of the United States Constitution, and (2) the length and number of the terms of office for federal officials, established and agreed upon by the States in the Constitution creating that Federal Government, may not be unilaterally changed by an individual State, such as through the enactment of a recall provision or a term limitation for a United States Senator or Representative. Under Supreme Court constitutional interpretation, since individual States never had the original sovereign authority to unilaterally change the terms and conditions of service of federal officials agreed to and established in the Constitution, such a power could not be “reserved” under the 10th Amendment.
Then:
RECALL
In some States, State legislators and other State or local elected officials may be removed from office before the expiration of their established terms not only by action of the legislature itself through an expulsion (or for executive officers, through
an “impeachment” and conviction by the legislature), but also by the voters through a “recall” election procedure. While an expulsion is an inherent authority of legislative bodies incident to their general powers over their own proceedings and
members, recall is a special process outside of the legislature itself, exercised by the people through a special election. Recall provisions for State or local officers became popular in the “progressive movement,” particularly in the western and plains
States, in the early part of the 20th Century.21
- So - is it possible?
If so - only 25% of the total number of votes from the last election?
Quote Article XXI
"A petition signed by registered electors entitled to vote for a successor of the incumbent sought to be recalled, equal in number to twentyfive percent of the entire vote cast at the last preceding election for all candidates for the position which the incumbent sought to be recalled occupies, demanding an election of the successor to the officer named in said petition, shall be filed in the office in which petitions for nominations to office held by the incumbent sought to be recalled are required to be filed; provided, if more than one person is required by law to be elected to fill the office of which the person sought to be recalled is an incumbent, then the said petition shall be signed by registered electors entitled to vote for a successor to the incumbent sought to be recalled equal in number to twentyfive percent of the entire vote cast at the last preceding general election for all candidates for the office, to which the incumbent sought to be recalled was elected as one of the officers thereof, said entire vote being divided by the number of all officers elected to such office, at the last preceding general election; and such petition shall contain a general statement, in not more than two hundred words, of the ground or grounds on which such recall is sought, which statement is intended for the information of the registered electors, and the registered electors shall be the sole and exclusive judges of the legality, reasonableness and sufficiency of such ground or grounds assigned for such recall, and said ground or grounds shall not be open to review."
That has to be the LONGEST sentence I have ever read . And I still don't know if it is feasable. I need to examine these documents in detail - so full of legalese.
Nice research funkfool.
That's great info. funkfool,
When our non-representing Representatives no longer carry out the will of the people they are supposed to represent, then the will of the people must be forced upon them by whatever means legally necessary.
From what I hear, several states are looking into the recall of their Senators, we shall see.
With this administration, I feel as though I am being forced into a corner with my back to the wall. That my fellow members is a really bad place for me to be, as I'm sure at least most of you feel the same.
Moon.
This ones for you STU!
These fuck tards are all doing us a favor. Its nice to see the faces or votes since they vote in the middle of the farkin night while I lay awake thinking about my responsibilities as a husband and father and can't see them voting live. I now know who is fucking me and my offspring. Our kids are gonna look back and say "you guys fucked us" And we will just nod and frown. These tool boxes have now made it blatantly apparent that they could give two shits about the constitution or the people who stand for it and definitely the people who drafted it. This 111th (?) session of congress is one for the books. Everything had to be rushed. Nothing was read before voting. A huge amount of scare tactics involved. Now at least a finger can be pointed at the villain/colporate who has stolen from our pockets as well as our children's. Rights have been stolen too! And thats probably the worst!
It is so apparent that the will of the people is of little importance any longer. Depending on the polls you view, the people don't want this crap. Mostly because of who is giving it. The FEDS run a lot of things. Most of those "things" don't run well. Social security, post office, Medicare/medicaid, and a whole shit ton of other programs I can't think of because I'm Knee jerking and can't type as fast as I'm thinking! If they would prove to us with fixing those programs listed then , hey I might, and I mean might let them try another program. Fix what you got that is broken before going and starting another high priced tax burden type of program.
All is well guys. The Government is here to help whether you need it or not. Now remember their names, faces, and vote records. Tell all that you know just how great these congressmen and senators are.
This.......
http://www.newt.org/Portals/0/UltraP...ReidPelosi.jpg
Sickens me!
The buying votes is just the shit pile on top of a big puddle of piss. What a goddamn disgrace that the Dems that had any back bone simply crumbled with a few paltry billion here and there. What a freaking surprise. All of this really makes me wish I haven't been paying attention these past few years. And that Stuart Smally muddafukka better hope he can hang around long enough to respect the other members of the Senate regardless of their party.
Tort reform would be a plus.
Sadly as this passes, our men and women are dying over seas to come home to this shit.
Where is the breaking point. I know I have crossed it. I am a small business owner and this is all going to crush the 20years of hard work that I have put into my career since college. I will be lucky to be able to afford the insurance they will force my wife and I to purchase because the high deductible insurance I have now will no longer be adequate according to the guidelines of this medical bill. The results will be, my customers wont be able to afford my services because they are out of a job because their employers couldn't afford to run their business, or they are too busy trying to make their medical insurance payments. Bottom line is, the secondary and tertiary reactions to this are going to make things way worse than they are.
2010 elections are our only hope to make any dent in the blind partisanship, but I fear that the govt will enable the millions of freeloaders to vote once again for the the dish of shit that sits before us. Not to mention all the illegals that will be ready to jump in line and give the nod to our Obomination.
There's a whole multitude of things that piss me off about this administration!
However what I really want to know is when all the idiots who voted the 'great one' (sarcasm intended) in are going to ask when he is going to fulfill some of his BS promises???
Take my hippie neighbor, he voted him in because ‘he just wanted the war to end’. Has it ended, nope! Not that I or any sane individual thought it would.
As for health care, and using the UK as an example of state run health care. OMG at best it’s crap! I know I used to live there!
All things being said though, it’s not so much being pissed off, it’s more being afraid! These people are clueless and dangerous!
Be afraid, be very afraid!
And yes I would love to see his birth certificate! I had to show mine when I emigrated here!
This is a good read
http://www.rutherford.org/oldspeak/a...toff_2009.html
You, my friend, are NOT alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by GunTroll
"Honest Leadership" - MY A$$
"Open Government" - SO FAR from it.
These folks are worse than scum - and should be prosecuted to the FULLEST extent that the LAW allows.
"How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!"
Samuel Adams
I must have put in a thousand emails and at least 300 phone calls to various elected officals to voice my opposition to these latest assaults on our freedoms and know for a fact that the majority of responses these reps got was HEAVILY weighted AGAINST these ill-concieved ideas.
They just ignored the will of the people and plowed onward, towards socialism.
They aren't afraid of not being re-elected, in my opinion, because they are putting in place a bureaucracy of such size and scope that they will just be appointed to a cushy, life-long govt. job by those still in position to do so.
They no longer believe they have anything to lose.
I believe them to be VERY WRONG and hope to prove them so.
In 1982 I took an oath, "To defend the U.S. constitution from all threats, both foreign, and domestic". Having seen the inner workings if you will of our government, it sickens me to see and hear the changes some people are wanting to make to the Constitution.
If in fact, the government is the employee of the people, then we should, without pause do whatever is within our power to maintain our rights, and freedoms, as set forth. Our country has evolved into a "me" mentality, and separated from the family unit our grandparents new. There are far too many "sheeple", out there who are happy as long as they have their fancy cars, big houses, and club memberships. People who give their children money to get them out of there hair instead of teaching them basic skills much less how our government is supposed to work. Too many people who have sat on the fence for far too long. If we the few don't start barking loudly now, soon we will have no voice at all, and as it has been proven we will be condemed to repeat our past.
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkfool
There is more. Apparently B.O. is also planning to nominate around 15 people for positions in government while the Senate is in recess.
I don't know how many of my fellow board members read this, but B.O., when asked about his using non-applicable rules to push through healthcare reform (despite majority disapproval in both government and the U.S. public), he replied essentially: that's what elections are for.
The obvious message here is, he knows better than we all do what is best for us. Regardless of what we think he will do whatever he wants with our laws, our persons, our money and our nation.
I think there's a word for this...?