Rem 870 Tactical or Benelli M4 - both SBS

Hello good folks,
I may have an opportunity coming in a few months to update the home defense weapon to either a Rem 870 tactical or a Benelli M4. Both 12 gauge, both S.B.S., both more than 4 rounds, etc.

What are you're thoughts on these in a head to head competition?

Your expeirence with said weapons?

etc... More importantly, please explain WHY you think that way. Justify your thoughts instead of "Benelli M4 cuz it's looks cooler" or some other asinine comment. Thanks for your help.

Sincerely,
Big Bear

So either way you are going to get a tax stamp, or are you just talking about an 18.5" barrel?

Either way I'll get a stamp. Most likely scenario is 14 inch. But I'm more interested in the bodies, reliability, best ammo choices, etc. and of course the "why" behind your (others) logic. Again, this is not something that has come to fruition yet, I'm just looking down the road a few months... so chalk it up as some research.

EDIT: No, I will NOT be shooting clays with this! HAHAHAHA.

I have an 870, and got it specifically to SBS, but I have no experience with the Benelli beyond reading about it on the internet, so I can't really comment. Maybe we can cut ours down at the same time and compare them.

As for my choice, I didn't really know anything about shotguns, so I started doing a lot of research. I picked the 870 just because it is tried and true (but so are Mossberg and Benelli) and because you could cut the 870 down to 12" easily with no extra gunsmithing. Oh yeah, also the cost. I put my used 870 together for $230. Being able to put together a 12" shotty for under $500 is too good of a deal for a poor guy like me; especially since it's not a payment of $500 at one time.

May I ask why you want an SBS?

I have an 870 with a 18.5 barell and it is pretty darn compact even with the fixed butt stock. If a guy was so inclined, he could mount a folder or collapsing stock on it to make it a bit shorter.

I am a huge devoted fan of the 870. It is my number one go to gun out here on the ranch. It was less than $350 brand new and very, very reliable. Also, there are tons of aftermarket goodies available for it if a guy wants to trick it out. I'm telling you you can't go wrong with the 870.

I looked at the Benelli (sp?) and they are good too. My good friend and duck hunting partner has one of their shotguns which will chamber 3 1/2 mags. Performs like a 10 gauge on geese. Also a great gun, but the Remington is less money for equal quality in my opinion.

Because a 12" pistol gripped shotgun fits REALLY well into a tennis racket bag or backpack?

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Originally Posted by Stuart

Because a 12" pistol gripped shotgun fits REALLY well into a tennis racket bag or backpack?

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Good Answer! Talk about intimidation factor causing a criminal to re think his plan of jacking you....

Why I would want one? ... Well, you kind of answered the question. There is no "need". It is purely a "want" a desire. I currently have a long barrel (21 inch I think?...) berretta 390 that I use for clays, etc. But it is too long for my wife to balance. Justification number one. Justification number two is that I would like to upgrade the home defense from a handgun to a shotgun. My current shotgun seems to me too long to easily get around the small place we have.

Thoughts? I was also leaning towards the 870 but I've been hearing good things about the Benelli. Also, one is pump and other seems to be semi.

Cutting down a semi to SBS is more complex than cutting a pump just so you know.

You cut a pump and it will still cycle any round you put in it just fine. That's not the case with a semi though. You have to adjust it to either field loads, or buckshot and slugs. One or the other (as I understand it), but not both at the same time. I've heard that for a lot of money you can get a selector switch that automatically switches between three different settings, but that was for a Tromix kit on a Siaga, so I don't know if that is possible (without paying an arm and a leg) on other guns.

Also, for a HD gun, I probably wouldn't want to worry about which setting I had it on, unless I tuned it for buck and it never saw anything else.

Hmm.. good points. Seems like the Rem is more "out there" in terms of feild experience.

I think the Benelli has plenty of field experience, but probably a lot less people who've cut one down.

EDIT: Hey, what kind of stock are you thinking of having? I'm still trying to decide myself.

The Benelli M4 is an inerta operated semi-auto with two gas pistons to back up the inerta system for low recoil rounds like less-than-lethal rounds.

The Rem 870 is a pump action shotgun.

It's hard to compare a semi to a pump, but I think it boils down to the reliability of the pump and the faster cyclic rate of the semi. Both are minor differences in this case as the Benelli's are pretty damn reliable for a semi, and with practice you can really cycle the snot out of a 870. The second thing is price. The Benelli is going to cost at least double if not triple the 870.

You want the cool factor and can afford it, go with the Benelli. You want reliability and cheaper, go with the 870.

Then, go practice with it with your wife, a lot.

Side note, I prefer 18" barrels over 14" barrels. We had both in OSI, and the 14" barrels had a buckshot pattern that could hit three people at 25 yds. The 18" barrels would at least keep the shot on one target at 25 yds. This was with what the military gave us to shoot. I'm sure with the new federal shot cups it would be differen, but I never found the 4" of barrel to be a problem when manuvering through a house or structure.

Benelli's are super hard to get parts for. I had a M2 and hated it with a passion. Now I only buy American made stuff. There shot guns are Ok but with a 5 year warrnty and parts hard to find, I would get the remmy

I appreciate the input. 18 inch it may stay then. Cool factor is fun at times, but I'm more of a practicality person.

Stuart, I have not given thought to stock options yet. I'm not too fond of the ar15 looking aftermarket one that most people have. A folding stock I'm not too interested in either. I like things to feel solid.

SA Friday, do you know anything about choking a SBS shotgun? I've asked before, but it seems to be an off the wall question and not many people seem to desire that sort of thing.

Speaking of chokes.... how about some info on chokes and slugs... I've heard that you ought not shoot slugs if you have a choke system...

The rifling built into the slugs is partially to spin the round, and partially to compress through the choke. I've shot rifled slugs out of my modified choke in the end of my 26" 870 barrel and didn't have any problems. Just make sure you aren't shooting Sabot slugs out of a choked barrel. I'm under the impression that MOST chokes are okay for rifled slugs, but would be careful to make sure you don't have some esoteric choke like the square duck choke.

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Originally Posted by Stuart

SA Friday, do you know anything about choking a SBS shotgun? I've asked before, but it seems to be an off the wall question and not many people seem to desire that sort of thing.

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As I understand it, it depends on how the barrel is made. If the barrel is straight bore and the same diameter at the new shorter length that it was on the end that was threaded for the choke, then it's a matter of getting a gunsmith to rethread and cut it for the desired choke pattern.

On a home defense shotgun with a 18" ish barrel, there's really no reason to have anything other than a basic IC on it. Lot's cheaper to have it IC or cylinder than to spend the serious cash to have it set up for chokes.

I've never looked at putting chokes in a chopped barrel, so this is all theoretical. I've been extremely happy with my 21" iron sighted Rem slug barrel with permanent IC choke on the end for home defense. So, never really looked at anything else other than what I shot for the military in a short barreled shotgun. I fricken hated the 14" chopped 870's we had. They looked cool and shot like shit. 20 yds and those things were nothing but spray and pray guns. I personally, like to aim.

See I get the, "It doesn't matter for a home defense gun" line all the time; but your experience tells me differently. I'm sure I'll use my HD gun at the range a lot more than I will in a HD situation.

Here we go with teh acronyms... IC stand for? "Integrated choke" maybe?.... Help.

Stewart, then get a shotgun with a 24 or 26" barrel that you can shoot at the range, change chokes and still use in a defensive situation. Don't underestimate the longer barrel and swingability when shooting clays or birds. Shooting a shorter barrel can be tough.

IC = Improved cylinder.

So a Remy 870, 16 inch with 2 inch "breacher" (for the "cool factor" mentioned! HAHA) to equal 18 inch, solid stock (preferrably with pistol grip), pump action would be ideal for any HD situation then?

Sure. Put a mag extension on it too. I have a cheap ass extension on mine. One of the better mag extensions out there is a Nordic.

That's certainly something I'll consider, assuming I don't run out of money buying them for Bailey to practice on. Thanks for the tip Fryday.


BigBear: Have you put any consideration into what kind of barrel you want? I mean between just a standard barrel or a vent ribbed. I've got that 26" vent ribbed barrel and holding the gun up with one hand like in the movies is a joke. I've held an 18" or 20" Mossberg with a regular barrel and a full butt stock and it is worlds lighter than my 26" vent ribbed barrel gun with just a tasco pistol grip.

Also, since you were already considering spending the money on a Benelli, have you considered looking at Serbu Super Shorty at all? They are manufactured out of 870 receivers. I think they are AOW instead of SBS though (whole other can of worms right?).

Here is a picture of one: (Bottom)
http://www.tucsonguns.com/pic/2008-0...22-08-0006.jpg

A guy over on SilencerTalk has one and killed some rabbits with it just by aiming down the flat of the barrel.


As far as the flash hider, it just has to be pinned, welded, or otherwise permanently mounted to the barrel.


EDIT: Never mind about the Serbu, only holds 2 in the mag + 1 in the chamber.

Serbu I'm not interested in. Again, just something for HD and that the wife feels comfortable holding (i.e. good balance for her petite frame). I have thought about barells and the standard will be fine. Vented, rib, harmonic flute, whatever is too much for me. I just want soemthing that when I pull the trigger, it goes boom in a predicatable way. Again, it's about balance and weight. I can stand hold a .50 BMG steady so I'm not too worried about weight on my end but the wifey is another problem. No need for a pocket shotgun though, lol!!! I'm not going to throw it in my pants and go to the store or anything. HAHA>

My vote goes for the Benelli. I have a Benelli (not the M4) and it's done really well. They're really reliable, well designed firearms (that's why the're expensive). And the m4 is semi auto.

I've also shot an 870 Tactical. I've heard that they're not so good on reliability. Supposedly Remington was too embarrased to enter their shotty in for the shotgun contract that mossberg has now with the 500 (or 590). The 870 will break more easily and sooner. Plus it's not semi auto. The good side is, they're cheep. I really like the way 870s feel.

Are you thinking pistol grip only? Or pistol grip and stock? I'm not sure that Benelli has just a pistol grip with no stock for their M4.

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Originally Posted by rhineoshott

I've heard that they're not so good on reliability. Supposedly Remington was too embarrased to enter their shotty in for the shotgun contract that mossberg has now with the 500 (or 590).

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Did you happen to hear that from the same person trying to sell you a Mossberg by any chance?

Pistol grip with stock. I'm not fond of a pure pistol grip. I like feeling something in my shoulder unless I'm handling a pistol.

Went and bought an 870 for the wife.
Put a box of shells.
Every other would not extract.
So I go on the Net and apparently late production 870s have given lots of similar issues (check it out yourself).
I understand breaking it in, but this is ridiculous.[Rant1]
The day after I brought it back to Big 5 and I must have looked really pissed because they exchanged it for a Mossberg 500 (my second one), no problem.
I am glad I did...

That's interesting. When I was looking at shotgun information, I couldn't find any complaints of feeding/ejecting issues on any pump gun of any manufacturer. Most the stuff I ran into was preference between plastic vs metal trigger groups, cross bolt vs parallel safety, after market accessory availability, etc.

Did you ever research into how recent the bad batch of 870's were supposed to have come out? They've been making the 870 for like 40 years now. Weird that they'd screw something up this late in the game.

After having quite a bit of trigger time with both, the 870 honestly doesn't compare to the M4 very well. Much like comparing a Kimber to an Ed Brown. I think the 870 will fit your needs just fine.

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Originally Posted by Stuart

That's interesting. When I was looking at shotgun information, I couldn't find any complaints of feeding/ejecting issues on any pump gun of any manufacturer. Most the stuff I ran into was preference between plastic vs metal trigger groups, cross bolt vs parallel safety, after market accessory availability, etc.

Did you ever research into how recent the bad batch of 870's were supposed to have come out? They've been making the 870 for like 40 years now. Weird that they'd screw something up this late in the game.

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I agree with you, and I wanted to have one of both the "classic" military 12's for my collection.
Search "rem 870 extraction issues".
You'll find a few...

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Originally Posted by Graves

After having quite a bit of trigger time with both, the 870 honestly doesn't compare to the M4 very well. Much like comparing a Kimber to an Ed Brown. I think the 870 will fit your needs just fine.

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Doesn't compare in what manner? I've never even heard of an Ed Brown...

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Originally Posted by BigBear

I've never even heard of an Ed Brown...

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Never heard of Ed Brown?

Sry, I have not heard of Ed Brown. Google is a wonderful thing, lol. So can someone qualify the statement "comparing a Kimber to an Ed Brown"? I used to own and Kimber and thought that it was fantastic...

Fantastic, but not custom.

If you do the semiauto you may have to take it to a gunsmith and have the Gas ports enlarged to cylce some rounds properly. I modified a Rem 1100 and it won't eject trap rounds anymore, which is fine because I keep it filled with hi-brass that cycles just fine. My advice would be to go with the 870. Your going to find more, less expensive, options for that, and not have to worry about rounds getting stuck on eject.

I have several 870's, both tactical and hunting. I have one benelli M4. The m4 is definitely a blast to shoot but the reliabilty of the pump lands on the 870. If I had to pick one, I would go with an 870. Thats my .02.