Plug-in hybrids?

Who knows about plug-in hybrid vehicles? My wife's CR-V is getting a little long in the tooth and she has expressed a desire to get a PHEV.

I like the idea of a PHEV because most of our trips are strictly around town (Pueblo) so most of our driving would likely be on electricity. But I still want the option of taking longer trips so I want the hybrid with a gas engine.

Definitely want an SUV/Crossover as opposed to a car. We do use the cargo area of her SUV and that will continue.

She likes the Rav-4 hybrid and as someone who's owned Toyotas before I'm happy with them.

Any others I should be looking at? We don't need a luxury vehicle, just two 60-something people with grandkids.

Thanks for any recommendations!

Toyota has embraced the hybrid.

The reliability of them is almost to traditional Toyota levels.

While I doubt you'll see 300k miles out of one like you would a gas powered Camry, since you are (or soon to be, pending retirement) a little old lady that only drives to church on Sundays, it may work well for you.

Does your new house have a charging station?

There will be some here who will attack me because of some weird political agenda and how they associate that with the car you drive. If you're able to disassociate your politics from what you drive and listen to this advice, you'll likely thank yourself after only a brief period of ownership:

Get a Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD.

There's a reason it's now the #1 selling vehicle in the world. It's really that good. It used to be that they were far cheaper to operate over the years but the up-front cost was higher. Now that (thanks largely to vertical integration and Tesla's relentless mission to bring everything in-house) they're cheaper on the front end AND less expensive to own and operate the financial consideration is a no brainer. With the $7,500 federal tax credit, the $5,000 state of Colorado tax credit and another $6,000 trade-in credit (potentially) it's crazy how low that entry point is on a Model Y these days.

We've owned nothing but Teslas for over 6 years now. The only thing I regret is not doing it sooner. Most of what you think you know about them is either outdated or was never correct in the first place. This idea that you can own an EV for around town but need an ICE car for road trips is also long outdated info. We thought the same thing but quickly discovered that, even 6 years ago, the Supercharger network meant you can drive just about anywhere you want to go. With it's growth since then, range anxiety is basically nonexistent or at least WAY over hyped. In fact, road tripping has become one of our favorite hobbies now. We've put well over 100k on our Teslas and whenever we have even a three-day-weekend we're on the road. We took a trip down to Texas for the solar eclipse at the start of summer and have another road trip to Toronto coming up in a few weeks. The Tesla Model Y LR AWD is the best road trip vehicle I've ever owned which is something I never saw myself saying before we owned them.

For me, we haven't been to a gas station in half a dozen years. People want to argue the environmental impacts of EVs and I genuinely don't care. There's enough info out there proving they're a net positive but it's not my reason for buying. I'm not a tree hugger and we don't have kids so I don't much care. It's simply the best vehicle I've ever driven in a long line of fancy, high-end cars. For me though, the fact that our entire household's energy needs are met domestically is a big deal. That's local energy production and local jobs. I don't send a single dime to foreign interests in Russia or the Middle East which is a big deal to me. I also drive cars that are 100% made in the USA by Americans employed by a company based in the USA who is pushing the envelope for innovation in the automotive industry. To me, these things all matter.

I say all of this as someone who owned a Toyota Hybrid (Camry) that we loved. It was great tech for the time but EVs have got so good that we no longer need that bridge. The undeniable downside to hybrids is the complexity that's added. Complexity = more things that can go wrong. Sure, an outfit like Toyota can do hybrid well to minimize this but it's still a far less reliable technology with (far) more maintenance and cost associated with keeping it on the road. If you're in the market for a midsize SUV you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not going and driving a Model Y for as long of a period as you can. The more you drive them, the more you appreciate all of the things they do better than what you're used to. We haven't been to a gas station in 6 years and every morning we wake up to a "full tank" of over 300 miles that cost roughly 10% of what the same miles in gasoline would have cost. That alone is worth the price of admission. They're also the safest car you can own (by a LONG ways) and also one of the most fun things you can own.

I know you're a ways away in Pueblo but I'm happy to let you drive ours. The same offer is extended to anyone else reading this who's closer to our neck of the woods. If you do so with an open mind I have no doubt you'll come around just like we did. They're really that good and much of the negative BS you hear parroted by those who have never owned one is just that... BS.

Nope - I will not be willing to support going Full EV until the grid and logistics surrounding battery charging/swapping is solved... that appears to still be many years out. Hybrid tech where you extend the range and supplement performance seems like the "happy medium" we should be focused on for the time being... make the hybrids more reliable if that's the point of failure today... but that's just my opinion.

Now having an EV as a weekend fun car/toy to drive in the mountains, absolutely that would be great, perhaps even a daily-driver/commuter to and from Denver from the suburbs...(heaven forbid i ever have to do that again) but i won't be giving up the ability to drive across the country and through small towns that don't have charging stations.

I guess boiled down to it, If EV's require you to "stay where the people are", then I don't want one.

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Originally Posted by Sawin

Nope - I will not be willing to support going Full EV until the grid and logistics surrounding battery charging/swapping is solved... that appears to still be many years out. Hybrid tech where you extend the range and supplement performance seems like the "happy medium" we should be focused on for the time being... make the hybrids more reliable if that's the point of failure today... but that's just my opinion.

Now having an EV as a weekend fun car/toy to drive in the mountains, absolutely that would be great, perhaps even a daily-driver/commuter to and from Denver from the suburbs...(heaven forbid i ever have to do that again) but i won't be giving up the ability to drive across the country and through small towns that don't have charging stations.

I guess boiled down to it, If EV's require you to "stay where the people are", then I don't want one.

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Right on queue, someone close-minded that has no idea that what they're saying is 100% wrong even when following up a post by someone who does. These are the exact people who drain my will to live because they speak as if they know what they're talking about which convinces those who actually want to learn. You get an echo chamber like this forum where there's a handful of people who parrot this BS and before you know it.. it's just "the way" no matter who accurate it is.

way to make it personal... I wasn't and don't.
But you're welcome to help me learn why i'm wrong if you want to.

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Originally Posted by Sawin

way to make it personal... I wasn't and don't.
But you're welcome to help me learn why i'm wrong if you want to.

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If you see my stating of the obvious (that you present incorrect information factually) as enough of a negative to be deemed a "personal attack" then why not change the behavior? That's what you have control over... not my reaction.

You can't say that your post was conversational and meant from a place of wanting to learn. You spouted a bunch of untrue nonsense about EVs as if it was fact because you heard it once. You then closed off any possibility of learning information that might be counter to your staunch stance on not being interested and not even offering up the OP with options, as requested. Change is hard for those stuck in their ways. It's also a foolish way to go through life thinking things can't possibly get better during the time of the most rapidly advancing change humanity has ever known.

I tried to open a thread years ago on this forum to happily answer any genuine EV questions that anyone had and wanted actual first hand info & answers. That quickly devolved into some weird political debate about stuff that was untrue from people who presented it as if it was fact. This quickly became a very contentious place where not much in the way good faith knowledge transfer could happen. Your post just reminded me of that, fairly or not.

It's bad when I can't even recommend a midsize SUV (the #1 selling car in the world BTW) in a thread asking for midsize SUV recommendations w/o someone instantly replying with fake news presented as if it was fact... exactly as I predicted in my post.

I'm not a Tesla fanboi. I had one of the first F150 Lightning reservations proving me wanting whatever is the best available for our needs. (That ended up not being the case for a myriad of reasons that we won't get into in this thread) Ultimately I want the best item at the best price that meets our needs. I have zero brand affiliation or loyalty beyond the last product I bought based off of that criteria. It just turns out that Tesla still is the best option even though I'm anxiously awaiting something better to become available.

I'm not some weird environmentalist or Democrat trying to push an agenda. Anyone who thinks any of that is my motivation doesn't know me as that couldn't be further from the truth. I've had people PM me on this forum from that thread because they wanted to know more about EVs and Tesla specifically because of how toxic that thread had become. It became the opposite of what I created the thread in the first place.

Much (if not all) of what you've heard that's negative about Tesla from the vocal minority is false. Tesla EVs are not perfect, mind you. but they're far closer to automotive perfection than most consumers realize. They're also getting better at a pace that makes even the accurate negativity you've heard outdated.

I only post here to say that you'd be doing yourself a disservice as a consumer if you didn't examine all of the options with an open mind to determine what is best for your unique needs. Seek independent sources to make sure what you're getting is correct information. This will be challenging when it comes to Tesla. They have had a $0 marketing budget so this is why you hear negativity so frequently that it starts to seem accurate. Everything inflammatory you see with Tesla in the headline is done purely for clickbait. It's also much of people's exposure to the brand, sadly.

If your goal is to gain genuine, unbiased information your goal should be to cut out all of this agenda-driven BS and go straight to the the source: owners. Talk to the actual owners of the cars as they will tell you how it really is. If you sit down to have a conversation with me, I'm an open book. I'll answer all of your questions honestly and I'm quick to bring up the negatives that are actually important to ownership (which you don't get a lot of here since I'm frequently defending unfair and/or inaccurate info that only makes me seem like a Tesla apologist). I've done this for countless people over the years to zero personal gain because I know how hard it was for me to find unbiased information on the topic 8 years or so ago. I'm happy to pave the way for others who approach the topic with a genuine interest in learning.

What I don't have time for is close minded people who are confident in their ignorance enough to volunteer inaccurate information any chance they get and doing so in a way that makes others think they are right.

the saying is "right on CUE".

And you ALWAYS make it personal. It seems like Sawin mad a good post. Hybrids are the happy place for most people's needs. Maybe electric only works for you. That good too. I think you are old enough not to get bent out of shape because people dont necessarily like what you like. All you need to do is present the unbiased, noninflammatory data or experience you have. However, you have been consistently unable to do that.

[LOL] that is all.

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Originally Posted by Jer

It's bad when I can't even recommend a midsize SUV (the #1 selling car in the world BTW) in a thread asking for midsize SUV recommendations w/o someone instantly replying with fake news presented as if it was fact... exactly as I predicted in my post.

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Is there a big market for these overseas? I see the stats that say it was the #1 sold car in the world, but it's not even the #1 sold car in the U.S.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sawin

[LOL] that is all.

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Like your ally on this one, do ya?

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Originally Posted by HBARleatherneck

the saying is "right on CUE".

And you ALWAYS make it personal. It seems like Sawin mad a good post. Hybrids are the happy place for most people's needs. Maybe electric only works for you. That good too. I think you are old enough not to get bent out of shape because people dont necessarily like what you like. All you need to do is present the unbiased, noninflammatory data or experience you have. However, you have been consistently unable to do that.

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From the master of resorting to personally attacking people at all times in hopes that nobody will recognize when they're clueless on a topic himself comes this gem of a response.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by funkymonkey1111

Is there a big market for these overseas? I see the stats that say it was the #1 sold car in the world, but it's not even the #1 sold car in the U.S.

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Number 1 is some Chinese brand EV. They are building a factory in Mexico hoping to skirt the tariffs on Chinese EVs with NAFTA and flood the US market with sub $20K EVs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by funkymonkey1111

Is there a big market for these overseas? I see the stats that say it was the #1 sold car in the world, but it's not even the #1 sold car in the U.S.

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Yuge. [LOL]

I think that the Model Y was the highest selling model in California (go figure, lol) as well as 6 other states (WA, NV, CO, VA, MD, NJ) but it was 5th in the US overall. We still love our pickup trucks. It's head & shoulders above the rest of the competitors in the rest of the world though, making it the #1 vehicle sold worldwide. With how quickly Tesla is building Gigafactories and bringing them online & given their growth curve based on units sold, these #'s will likely be paltry this time next year. They went #5 in 2022 to #1 in 2023. Pretty big jump in a pretty short period of time and impressive by any standard.

Hell, even I used to not be a fan of the Model Y. The ride quality was harsh and they were really noisy compared to the Model S/X plus there were a few quirks I just wasn't a fan of. Tesla listened to the criticism and made some really good improvements in the way of a few dozen small quality-of-life upgrades that make it not only livable but really good now. All quietly and with little to no fanfare like most of their updates. What most other car manufacturers do every few years with incremental generation updates, Tesla does in a few months. Just part of the benefits to being smaller and more nimble.

The overall utility of the Model Y is incredible and why we ended up getting two of them (2023 at the start of 2023 & a 2024 a couple months ago) having previously always gone with the Model S. For us, I preferred the look of the Model S much more to the Model Y but the practicality of the Model Y day-to-day is undeniable and one of my favorite aspects of them.

My big issue with EVs is why couldn't they just take an ICE car, replace the tank and motor with a battery and electric motor? All these connected gimmicks and required subscriptions just turn me off.

Why does the car maker need to talk to the car after I buy it? The only time it should talk to my car is when I ask them to.

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Originally Posted by Eric P

Number 1 is some Chinese brand EV. They are building a factory in Mexico hoping to skirt the tariffs on Chinese EVs with NAFTA and flood the US market with sub $20K EVs.

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Orly?

Attachment 96821

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Originally Posted by Eric P

My big issue with EVs is why couldn't they just take an ICE car, replace the tank and motor with a battery and electric motor? All these connected gimmicks and required subscriptions just turn me off.

Why does the car maker need to talk to the car after I buy it? The only time it should talk to my car is when I ask them to.

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I hate monthly subscriptions too. Tesla doesn't have a single subscription unless you want streaming music and live Google traffic data on your navigation. Otherwise, I can interact with just about any setting within my car that you can think of from the app completely free-of-charge. Having to pay a monthly service charge to remote start your vehicle to warm it up or cool it off or adjust the heat seaters or is laughable to me.

As for using existing platforms to build EVs, this is the worst way to make an EV IMO. Trying to retroactively cram items into spaces that they weren't intended for always ends up in a final product with hundreds of compromises that affects the performance & user experience. This is where most of the established manufacturers go wrong because they want to save money by using existing platforms and just taping crap in places where voids are created from removing the ICE components. This is a compromised approach foundationally that yields an inferior product that meets a timeline and price point at the cost of just about everything else.

I may have misunderstood your post though because I'm not sure why you stated those two topics are linked. To me, they're separate. You can most certainly do a ground-up new EV or an EV based on existing platform and still have an independent decisions on if you charge recurring charges for other "features" within each platform.

For me, the best EV will have a fully engineered platform from the ground up that is purpose-built for the best end product. Anything less than that is purely a money/time (mostly money) saving tactic for the manufacturer.

As for required subscriptions... eff that noise! I ain't payin' no monthly service charge for anything. That's just me though as it seems to make the world go 'round in most people's eyes. I go out of my way to not buy into ecosystems that come with additional recurring fees and/or higher costs down the road.

Another reason I love Tesla (and EVs in general in this sense) because I have no maintenance costs after purchase and my operation costs are fractional compared to their ICE powered counterparts. We've already saved over $20k on gas & oil changes alone. That doesn't even factor in maintenance costs of all of the scheduled services of ICE cars let alone unscheduled items that fail pretty regularly based on my experience.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jer

There will be some here who will attack me because of some weird political agenda and how they associate that with the car you drive. If you're able to disassociate your politics from what you drive and listen to this advice, you'll likely thank yourself after only a brief period of ownership:

Get a Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD.
....

I know you're a ways away in Pueblo but I'm happy to let you drive ours. The same offer is extended to anyone else reading this who's closer to our neck of the woods. If you do so with an open mind I have no doubt you'll come around just like we did. They're really that good and much of the negative BS you hear parroted by those who have never owned one is just that... BS.

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That's a great answer.....
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To a question I didn't ask. [facepalm]

ROI is not there on an electric unless you drive a ton.
And retirees will probably never see an upside on a testlab vs a basic Toyota phev.

As of 2024, Consumer Reports ranks Tesla?s overall brand #14 of the 30 car brands that they?ve tested.
Their rankings are based on Tesla?s predicted reliability score.?


https://caredge.com/guides/most-reli...bility%20score.



This makes Tesla auto insurance premiums approximately 50% pricier than for the average vehicle with a full-coverage policy.


https://www.marketwatch.com/guides/i...20car%20models.


29% of electric vehicle owners are considering a switch back to a traditional combustion engine car


https://www.google.com/amp/s/cleante...y-edition/amp/

If you're unarmed, you are a victim.

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Originally Posted by Jer

Orly?

Attachment 96821

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This is pretty amazing. Kinda makes me wonder why Tesla stock isnt doing better. Elon must have pissed people off.

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Originally Posted by Jer

Orly?

Attachment 96821

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BYD is the Chinese maker that outsold Tesla.

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Originally Posted by Martinjmpr

That's a great answer.....
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To a question I didn't ask. [facepalm]

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That was my first thought as I started reading the thread asking SPECIFICALLY about a plug in hybrid.

Truth is, each and every time anyone even implies they want some other option than full on EV, here comes you know who to convince you how utterly wrong you are for having a different opinion, knowing full well he's trolling most and surely has the copypasta ready to roll, including the inference that opposing opinions are purely political or you're just plain too backwoods, hillbilly stupid to understand the wonder that is Tesla.

It's exhausting to even watch.

I can?t offer up too much in the way of helpful information but I know a guy that had a Jeep hybrid. He ended up getting rid of it and going back to a traditional combustion engine Jeep. I?m pretty sure he told me what it was that soured him on his hybrid but he honestly don?t remember. If I run into him soon I?ll ask him why he got rid of it.

Consider the Grand Cherokee 4xe PHEV. The base model with the technology package has all the modern features (lane keep, bells and whistles, etc).
Check autotrader, look for year 2024 used vehicles with low mileage. Some people get scared out of the 4xe early, and you can get low miles with lots of warranty for less.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Erni

ROI is not there on an electric unless you drive a ton.
And retirees will probably never see an upside on a testlab vs a basic Toyota phev.

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I genuinely don't know what you mean by ROI of buying a car. Can you elaborate on what you're referring to? If you're inferring that an EV is more expensive and how long it takes to recoup the price difference on gas savings... this is a good example of the outdated info I mentioned. In most cases, a comparable EV isn't more expensive and in some cases it's dramatically less expensive.

Here's how the math breaks down on the brand new 2024 Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD we just bought. It had the optional Ultra White interior color making it $49,990 MSRP. Tesla had an EoQ sale that I watched like a hawk to get an in-inventory new car for ~10% off plus another $1k incentive for a free color upgrade ($6k off) making it $43,990. The $7,500 federal tax credit comes off at the point of sale making it $36,490. Colorado also has a $5,000 incentive that you get back on your taxes making it $31,490. That's the number we're talking about here to compare to ICE cars and plug in hybrids. Tesla doesn't really offer options other than a tow hitch and maybe a wheel upgrade aside from it's Autopilot software options. So that price basically includes just about everything you can want as included.

No pushy sales people to bother with either. Just clicked a button in my app and picked the car up @ Tesla in Loveland a few days later. The car was ready to go at the scheduled time and all I did was inspect the car, sign my paperwork and drive away. Nobody tried to sell me anything. It's a breath of fresh air compared to the debacle of me trying to by a Ford F150 Lightning a year ago. That traditional dealer model is a nightmare factory. We've been doing it our whole lives though so we don't even realize there's a better way until you experience it for yourself. I digress.

It looks like a RAV4 plug in hybrid starting price (likely to be less than people actually pay, we all know how legacy car manufacturers like their upgrades) at $12k more than that what we paid. Since too many of it's parts of a RAV4 PHEV are sourced outside of the US, it doesn't qualify for the $7,500 federal tax credit. So how long will it take for ROI for the RAV4 when it costs more to buy AND costs more per mile to operate?

The #'s are obvious to anyone who wants to compare them with an open mind and no agenda. I also know that, no matter how you equip it, there's dozens of things the RAV4 can't do that the Tesla can. Aside from being the clear winner on the financial side, the user experience is where Tesla continues to distance itself from all other options. Drive them both back to back and you'll get an idea how much more advanced the Tesla is. Don't get me wrong, Our Camry Hybrid was a great car and I loved my Tacoma (I thought I'd be buried in it for about 8 years or so) but the one area they were always a decade behind in was tech. That gap has grown dramatically with the introduction and continued advancement of Tesla.

If you say you don't want an advanced car you're missing the point of tech advancements. All of these advancements actually make driving less and less of a chore as well as safer. It automates SO much stuff that we typically would have to do manually in other cars. It's tough to explain because I know Tesla seems more complex on paper but once you own one you realize how simple they are (I jokingly tell people they're just glorified golf carts) and how they simplify the act of driving and ownership.

With the amount of predictable pushback I get stating facts in this forum, I genuinely feel like the guy who tried auto-loading firearms for the first time trying to explain to everyone how much better they were than cap and ball guns of the era. It's such a weird thing.


All that said, I misunderstood what the OP of this thread was asking for in terms of ideas. I won't go into the Tesla topic any further in this thread to allow it to get back to the topic that I now understand it to be. I'll urge anyone reading this to just do their own research on the topic. Find someone local who has owned a Tesla for an extended period of time to sit down with and ask any & all questions you have and drive one. I've offered multiple times to be this resource for anyone here and you'll get honest answers to any of your questions. Someone did this same thing for me many years ago to no benefit of theirs so I'm just paying the generosity forward. Understand that, since Tesla doesn't pay ANY advertising dollars... most resources you would typically use online are biased against them due to self-interests. It's important to talk to actual owners to get the real story. All EVs are NOT created equal so be wary of resources that lump all EVs in the same category because there are some truly awful EVs out there. I don't know anyone who has owned a Tesla looking to go back to ICE vehicles. Admittedly that's anecdotal but it's a very large # and growing despite all of the negativity you hear.

It's only to your own determent to not genuinely consider them as an option using independent information that's actually meaningful to your specific day-to-day needs rather than some anti-EV FUD that's pushed out that'll never apply to you. That's the biggest thing I learned from ownership is that all of the things you think are a big deal will never apply when you actually own one. Future you will thank current you for making the time to consider this topic openly.

What do you have to lose if I'm wrong? An hour of your time to verify what you thought you knew already? But if I'm right, the potential upside is a pretty dramatic improvement on your overall user experience. Speaking from first-hand experience. I'm so glad I chose to finally ignore all of the anti-EV FUD & intentionally biased statistics people parrot to find out for myself. As a result, the next time I drive I'm going to climb into a future machine that does 0-60mph in 2.21 seconds, costs about $5 per month to drive and never needs maintenance that, for a fun party trick, even drives itself if I want it to. That's our 2017 car.

Enjoy your weekend all!

I just bought a 25 year old Ford diesel 7.3L V-8. It has a 38 gallon fuel tank. That gives me 490 miles of range. It can tow 5 tons easily. It came with lots of good after market add ons for reliablity. The bumpers are made of steel. One owner truck with 100K miles. It is very noisy and sort of stinks.
It is fairly easy to work on and has only one computer for the fuel injection. I would trust it over the 07 Silverado I have that uses 37 different computers to operate.

Nothing pisses me off more than being broke down on the side of the road due to equipment failure.

I'd love to have a economical EV/hybrid that charges off solar and has an easy to replace battery. Unfortunately it is way out of my budget.

I made my purchase decision based mainly on consumer reports by actual owners. Reliability was the main consideration. It has zero emissions to maintain. OBD2 diagnostics doesn't really work as there is minimum electronics. Worse comes to worse, the truck will run on home heating oil. They are saying it will run on cooking oil. I know it will run on jet fuel with no adverse effects.

https://www.cars.com/research/ford-f...sumer-reviews/

I was attracted to this thread by the Topic heading of Best Plug-In Hybrid.
I have thought that might be my next transition vehicle.
I drive across the country about every 3 months and have seen few re-charging stations with available slots.
On the eastern turnpikes, the service areas are lucky to have a dozen and they are usually all in use.
The hotels I stay at are major chains like Marriott's Residence Inn and do not have charging stations or outside electrical outlets.
I think the local commute for groceries, etc. would be well served by a home charging station, but I am still skeptical about the availability of cross country stations.
The Hybrid may be the answer until an infrastructure for total electric is developed.

Tesla S 2024 can do 0-60 in 2.4 seconds and costs $74K. The hybrids like Toyota Prius use a battery and a internal combustion engine.


https://www.caranddriver.com/tesla/model-s


Toyota Prius 2024 gets great MPG. I am not real familiar with its engineering, but I can guarantee it is loaded with electronics. This car is designed to satisfy Congressional mandates for emissions. It has a gas engine and and electric motors for propulsion.

https://www.caranddriver.com/toyota/prius-prime


From an engineering stand point and economics sensibility I'd get a diesel VW without electric motor assistance. Too complicated a system in my opinion. My opinion for biggest bang for the buck would be the VW Jetta TDI.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...erm-road-test/

https://www.edmunds.com/toyota/prius/

I think hybrid vehicles are a gimmick. If Congress wants to clean up the air, put more resources into fighting forest fires and photovoltaic research.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jer

There will be some here who will attack me because of some weird political agenda and how they associate that with the car you drive. If you're able to disassociate your politics from what you drive and listen to this advice, you'll likely thank yourself after only a brief period of ownership:

Get a Tesla Model Y Long Range AWD.

There's a reason it's now the #1 selling vehicle in the world. It's really that good. It used to be that they were far cheaper to operate over the years but the up-front cost was higher. Now that (thanks largely to vertical integration and Tesla's relentless mission to bring everything in-house) they're cheaper on the front end AND less expensive to own and operate the financial consideration is a no brainer. With the $7,500 federal tax credit, the $5,000 state of Colorado tax credit and another $6,000 trade-in credit (potentially) it's crazy how low that entry point is on a Model Y these days.

We've owned nothing but Teslas for over 6 years now. The only thing I regret is not doing it sooner. Most of what you think you know about them is either outdated or was never correct in the first place. This idea that you can own an EV for around town but need an ICE car for road trips is also long outdated info. We thought the same thing but quickly discovered that, even 6 years ago, the Supercharger network meant you can drive just about anywhere you want to go. With it's growth since then, range anxiety is basically nonexistent or at least WAY over hyped. In fact, road tripping has become one of our favorite hobbies now. We've put well over 100k on our Teslas and whenever we have even a three-day-weekend we're on the road. We took a trip down to Texas for the solar eclipse at the start of summer and have another road trip to Toronto coming up in a few weeks. The Tesla Model Y LR AWD is the best road trip vehicle I've ever owned which is something I never saw myself saying before we owned them.

For me, we haven't been to a gas station in half a dozen years. People want to argue the environmental impacts of EVs and I genuinely don't care. There's enough info out there proving they're a net positive but it's not my reason for buying. I'm not a tree hugger and we don't have kids so I don't much care. It's simply the best vehicle I've ever driven in a long line of fancy, high-end cars. For me though, the fact that our entire household's energy needs are met domestically is a big deal. That's local energy production and local jobs. I don't send a single dime to foreign interests in Russia or the Middle East which is a big deal to me. I also drive cars that are 100% made in the USA by Americans employed by a company based in the USA who is pushing the envelope for innovation in the automotive industry. To me, these things all matter.

I say all of this as someone who owned a Toyota Hybrid (Camry) that we loved. It was great tech for the time but EVs have got so good that we no longer need that bridge. The undeniable downside to hybrids is the complexity that's added. Complexity = more things that can go wrong. Sure, an outfit like Toyota can do hybrid well to minimize this but it's still a far less reliable technology with (far) more maintenance and cost associated with keeping it on the road. If you're in the market for a midsize SUV you'd be doing yourself a disservice by not going and driving a Model Y for as long of a period as you can. The more you drive them, the more you appreciate all of the things they do better than what you're used to. We haven't been to a gas station in 6 years and every morning we wake up to a "full tank" of over 300 miles that cost roughly 10% of what the same miles in gasoline would have cost. That alone is worth the price of admission. They're also the safest car you can own (by a LONG ways) and also one of the most fun things you can own.

I know you're a ways away in Pueblo but I'm happy to let you drive ours. The same offer is extended to anyone else reading this who's closer to our neck of the woods. If you do so with an open mind I have no doubt you'll come around just like we did. They're really that good and much of the negative BS you hear parroted by those who have never owned one is just that... BS.

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I have been in teslas.

They are a premium price for a car that is not ?premium?. Fit finish is horrible.

Just had a business associate drive up in his Cyber truck. Every panel was wavy. Hell a jeep from ?70s had better panels than that cyber truck.

The look at the orange peel I have seen on the paint in every Tesla.

I would take a Plaid for $50k for the pure speed. But read any review. They are scary as hell to drive at speed and don?t handle predictably.

The only EV that are excitjng me are the Taycan and Macan. The new tip of line Taycan is a complete beast.

And Macan EV is billed as the first EV that drives like a car should and not like an EV. only problem is $120k for only 650hp.

But the build quality is there.

If EV's were computers, we are now at this stage of development!

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