Survival?...

Where's that survival forum?

Recently there's been a lot of talk from tin hat wearers about SHTF and TEOTWAWKI and (insert own acronym here). While we've all had the discussions on the "best" (very subjective term) and "must have" gear, it seems to me that there is a lot of fantasy going on. So basically, I'm wanting to start a discussion on what would really be needed? I guess I'll go first and yes, we want to keep it CO related. I'll start with a lot of common things I hear and then follow with my own (granted - inexperienced) thoughts.


Transportation:

I would assume that 4x4 would be nessecary especially if going to the hills/mtns. So, something with 4x4 that has decent cargo room. But the super duece and a half, etc? Come on. If you have room for a garage for that beast, it seems to me that you don't need to go anywhere when the SHTF.

Edibles:

Protein and water. But forty tons of MRE's or beef jerky bars?! Really? I'm all about the whole "bacon" thing, but you'll be incapcitated by serious health problems without some sort of veggie.

Gear:

The new superduper magum piss to water purifier? A 4 bed room tent? That new $400 tactical vest and drop leg holster? A butane/propane stove?! In a SHTF scenario where are you going to find the propane refills? Oh yeah, I forgot, you bought 3 tons of them to store in your deuce and a half. I'm a big guy and a lot of the must haves list would break my back.

Firearms:

The SAW mounted on the front grill of the duece with 4 thousand rounds as back up.... no comment...

Luxuries - laptop computer with satellie internet capabilities... (and who's going to run the network while the earth goes to hell? lol) 1932 wine from berlin, pots pans, etc. etc.

My suggestions: (very generalized)

Transportation - Something with 4x4 that can handle hill/mtn or rocky/icy roads. Cargo space to allow ample storage of gear and extra gas. Full size spare tire mounted outside of cargo area is a plus.

Edibles - I would think that one would trap/hunt for primary nutrion. Plenty of plant species in CO can be consumed. Water is kind of common and some purification tablets could come in handy. Pack a few protein bars, some bottled water, a few MRE's (enough food for about two weeks or so) and SALT (natural meat preserver) and your set. Go easy on the hunting etc, meaning don't eat the whole damn deer the first night, save some as you might not catch anything tomorrow, lol.

Gear - Good weather senstive and rugged clothes in nuetral colors are a must. Three pair should hold you for a long time. Good boots, several pairs of socks/undershirts/underwear. A big, sturdy (framed) backpack to fit stuff into. A multitool, saw/hatchet combo, pocket knife. A book or two on survival (boy scouts and army/marine survival guides are cheap and chocked full of great info). Sunglasses, hat, etc. Basically, just the basics. Rope/paracord, maybe a poncho and tarp. Flashlight. Binoculars (or save space and just use a scoped rifle)

Firearms - A long rifle with a sling and a side arm. Spare ammo and mags (not 40K rounds though, I'm thinking like maybe 200 rounds or so).

Luxuries - ... not sure.

Okay, thoughts?

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Originally Posted by BigBear

Where's that survival forum?

but you'll be incapcitated by serious health problems without some sort of veggie

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And surely you will need an ice cold beverage...

Ha ha, I just had to Big Bear[ROFL1]

Okay, I am no expert but I am an avid backpacker and camper and I learn something new everytime I go out. I think practice is a key. Building fires, shelters, getting and filtering water, navigation, and hunting (which I have to say I am not really educated and experienced with.

I have always thought of two types of survival, 1: The wildnerness, rambo style, living off of the earth completely. And, 2: The style in which survival blog seems to encourage which is builing up your home and supplies, etc.

I maintain my pack as well as a few things in the house that I wont allow to be depleted (Batteries, toilet paper, some canned goods, firewood, ammo, tylenol, etc).

I am looking forward to hearing about what other people do...

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Originally Posted by KevDen2005

And surely you will need an ice cold beverage...

Ha ha, I just had to Big Bear[ROFL1]

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HAHA. Yes sir! You must "Enjoy with an ice-cold beverage and veggies!" Good call, good call! HAHA. [LOL]

Oh, and good thoughts... maybe it would be best to have two trains of thought.. one for alone int eh wilderness and one for house sitting.

Depends on the time frame... if it's a bug out in 30 minutes +, I can make it, anything less probably not very well.

4x4 Crew Cab, Pop up camper is ready, got 30 gallons of water on standby and some limited food items in tubs to toss in the truck. Good backpack and clothes are handy, weapons/Bow can be accessed within minutes. If need be, ATV, Gas, and Generator are ready too.

I'm still working on putting together a bug out bag, it's just difficult to plan for a familly of four to hit the road on short notice.

I'm good to stay if I can shelter in place.

and I try to keep a small supply of similar necessary items in each vehicle just for the day when you are stuck in traffic or a snow bank in town...

it is expensive though to plan for something in all locations/vehicles. I've got a small survival kit at each work office and the wifes too: light, knife, food and drink items, dust mask and such... watching the 911 stuff a while ago on TV made me think that I should have a few of these items with me at work.

Some people laugh at me and have said... "heck I'm just going home if it's bad..." but what if you can't get there! Big crack in the earth or some other disease/chemical etc. (i work downtown) :)

As has been mentioned there is stay in place (bug in) or leave (bug out). Leaving could be almost imposable due to a number of factors.

I always believe that if one wants to be prepared then one needs to start at home first. And start small, learn and build. I am not an TEOTEAWKI kind of guy but I pray for the best and prepare for the worst.

If you work miles away from home then the "get me home bag" makes sense. And everyone here in CO should have a kit in there car to last them 3-4 days. Most here should have the weapons angle covered though I have noted some are a little short on ammo.

If the forum comes to pass I plan on bringing up many topics and even offering a class or two on some subjects that are near and dear to my heart. ;)

Ya'll just stay in the flat lands and leave the mtn folk to their own,, we are all crazy...

If it is short term (1-2 months) I have plenty of supplies at home.

Long term I will just bug out to my brother in laws place. He lives where there is plenty of game to harvest, water suplly is from a well, heat is from a fireplace, next to a creek, adn has a garden. He is working on a backup generator and solar sytem for power.

All I have to do is get there. With my wifes 4 dr wrangler and my built TJ we should make it no problem.

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Originally Posted by Mtn.man

Ya'll just stay in the flat lands and leave the mtn folk to their own,, we are all crazy...

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Sorry my friend... I'm been on the flat plains too long. I miss the mountains. Would be in the TN Smokies every summer since I was born (or dad was PCS'ed to Germany for a few years) till grandpa passed. I love the mtns.

I currently live in an aptartment... so a stay in place for me would be interesting.... lol. And I'm very short on ammo. Every time I get some, I go shoot it! HAHA.

Dry goods, vitamins, canned meats, seeds, medical kit, ammo, firearms, RV, wind-up flashlight/radio, matches, lighters,lots of water, iodine tablets, fishing gear, cook set, tent, sleeping bags, you get the idea.

I've always believed in a good home supply of goods. Ever notice when there's a bad snowstorm forecast and the stores are packed the day before with people stocking up ? I'm usually sitting home because I'm already stocked ! I agree with everyone about having supplies and gear in vehicles in case you get stuck somewhere. Preps don't have to cost a lot either Sounds like most of us are outdoor guys and we probably have enough camping(emergency gear) on hand already. I stock up whenever grocery stores have their buy 1 get 2 type of specials. It's amazing how fast you can build up surplus without going broke. Bugging out is a last resort to me.Looking forward to more prep talk and new ideas from other members.[Beer]

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Originally Posted by BigBear

Sorry my friend... I'm been on the flat plains too long. I miss the mountains. Would be in the TN Smokies every summer since I was born (or dad was PCS'ed to Germany for a few years) till grandpa passed. I love the mtns.

I currently live in an aptartment... so a stay in place for me would be interesting.... lol. And I'm very short on ammo. Every time I get some, I go shoot it! HAHA.

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I'm kinda partial to the Smokies myself (Knoxville born and raised).

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Originally Posted by BigBear

Sorry my friend... I'm been on the flat plains too long. I miss the mountains. Would be in the TN Smokies every summer since I was born (or dad was PCS'ed to Germany for a few years) till grandpa passed. I love the mtns.

I currently live in an aptartment... so a stay in place for me would be interesting.... lol. And I'm very short on ammo. Every time I get some, I go shoot it! HAHA.

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Ya buy 2 of every kind when ya buy. One for the locker and one to use.

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Originally Posted by TennVol

I'm kinda partial to the Smokies myself (Knoxville born and raised).

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Very interesting. I know that area very well. lol.

Knoxville, TN: This is the friendliest place I've ever been to in the U.S.

I was in a wedding where the bride was from Butler, TN, east of Johnson City. Most of the folks in that very rural area did so much with so little that I have no doubt that they will do well in a SHTF scenario. Remembering the way they lived helps me to re-adjust my SHTF planning a bit.

So, what would all of you do for heating if the scenario occured during the winter months and the power grid was lost?

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Originally Posted by theGinsue

So, what would all of you do for heating if the scenario occured during the winter months and the power grid was lost?

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I currently have a kerosene tower for backup and a few smaller propane heaters.Fuel for both as part of my"just in case plan". I always get a kick out of folks buying electric heaters for backup ?

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Originally Posted by theGinsue

So, what would all of you do for heating if the scenario occured during the winter months and the power grid was lost?

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Wood stove is first on the list. In my case I have a pellet stove with lot's of pellets. I also have a power set up to run it. It only draws 175 watts while it is running.

Now one other thought. For a smaller space Aladdin lamps give off 2500+ BTU's each and provide light. A couple of years ago we lost power for the night. I lit 2 aladdins in the living room. there is about 850' of space upstairs.

When we started it was 68 and 20 outside. after 3 hours I had to turn one off as it was up to 72 inside and 15 outside. Just some thoughts.

coleman 1850 portable generator, transfer switch on the house, few gallons of gas on standby at any given time. Has worked well in the past. I was without power for about 48 hours one spring ice storm a few years back. Was able to keep the furnace running and the kitchen, alternating to lights and tv as needed.

Have propane heaters and propane usually on standby too. Various candles and white gas lamps for light if needed.

House is natural gas operated, so if I got a spark, I can usually keep the furnace and stove running too.

you can always burn the neibors house[ROFL1]

Ah heat. A tent in the house can help retain alot of heat. Add a candle and your good to go. A hot water bottle in the bottom of sleeping bag will get you through half the night. Wake up drink/dump cold water and pee in your bottle(don't repeat) gets you through the other half.

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Originally Posted by cbs

you can always burn the neibors house[ROFL1]

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[ROFL3]my thoughts exactly, but i don't like my neighbors anyways.

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Originally Posted by cbs

you can always burn the neibors house[ROFL1]

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Well, for a while at least that would give you both heat and lighting. I suppose it's all a matter of perspective; eh?!

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Originally Posted by Beprepared

A hot water bottle in the bottom of sleeping bag will get you through half the night. Wake up drink/dump cold water and pee in your bottle(don't repeat) gets you through the other half.

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So, would you then use the hot water bottle in the same manner the next night? Ewwww!

I've already planned to disassemble the wooden gate surrounding all the dumpsters in my complex if I ever needed heat that badly. Well, assuming everyone is dead and no one is going to care about the missing gate.

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Originally Posted by cbs

you can always burn the neibors house[ROFL1]

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It does increase your field of fire. ;)

[Tooth]buffer zone BABY!!!

I have yet to see mentioned aluminum foil being packed in the SHTF bags. It works great for cooking meat/veggies, is very lightweight to pack, reusable, can be used for signaling, made into a spear/hooks for fishing, and worst case scenario it can be made into a nifty little hat so BIG BROTHER can't track your brainwaves (not to mention stylish). Any thoughts?

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Originally Posted by vegas976

I have yet to see mentioned aluminum foil being packed in the SHTF bags. It works great for cooking meat/veggies, is very lightweight to pack, reusable, can be used for signaling, made into a spear/hooks for fishing, and worst case scenario it can be made into a nifty little hat so BIG BROTHER can't track your brainwaves (not to mention stylish). Any thoughts?

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I carry a 3" x 5" glass signal mirror for signaling and usually buy another one to keep around every year or two so I have a bunch lying around. In my experience the plastic versions or smaller versions do not work quite as well and I don't think you can beat the quality of the glass ones. The bigger the better I suppose.

I haven't ever had much luck signaling with aluminum foil. I supposed if you had enough of it it would work in the same fashion as an emergency blanket (in the manner that it is reflective). But I do agree that it is a very important tool. I cook all the time using it while camping. Through a steak, potatoes, and a chopped onion and some salt and pepper, wrap in the foil and set on the fire coals and you got a pretty good meal.

It is also important for hat making...

I'm having a hard time imagining an aluminum foil hook, or spear being very useful. Can you elaborate?

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Originally Posted by vegas976

I have yet to see mentioned aluminum foil being packed in the SHTF bags. It works great for cooking meat/veggies, is very lightweight to pack, reusable, can be used for signaling, made into a spear/hooks for fishing, and worst case scenario it can be made into a nifty little hat so BIG BROTHER can't track your brainwaves (not to mention stylish). Any thoughts?

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I keep a couple of rolls on hand. Sams has the 250' twin pack for a reasonable amount. Along the same lines I also have the 3000' roll of cling wrap. Zip-lock bags!!!! heavy freezer ones!!! I buy them by the case. Always have some on hand.

I have several old GI mess kits, 4 of which are complete with the utensils. Those things are about bulletproof, thick stainless steel and easy to clean. They're also compact, making it easy to take one or two with.

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Originally Posted by Stuart

I'm having a hard time imagining an aluminum foil hook, or spear being very useful. Can you elaborate?

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believe it or not foil is extremely durable and can be fashioned into a great spear that is very sharp. of course that would be a last resort, as i'm assuming that a good knife will be packed with the foil. try it. with a little work and patience you will see for yourself.

I just don't understand how it has the strength to actually penetrate anything, or hold a fish (as a hook). Is there more to it?

Layers, all of the best samuri swords are made by layering a thin peice of metal over top of the other, repeated many times until the perfect balance and desired thickness is reached. They use heat like a blacksmith does.
However with foil, cold annealing with a light peening hammer can result in a nice spear or knife.

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Originally Posted by Stuart

I just don't understand how it has the strength to actually penetrate anything, or hold a fish (as a hook). Is there more to it?

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I have actually snagged a few carp with a foil hook out of the platte. Just like Mtn. Man mentioned, some of the best swords are developed in the same manner. It just takes patience and time (which you will have plent of if your trying to survive outdoors). If prisoners are making knives/spears out of newspaper, I don't see why a foil blade is impossible. You are not going to take down a bear with it, but it's better than throwing a rock at dinner.

Well, thanks for the explanations guys, I'll have to try that out some time.

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Originally Posted by Troublco

I have several old GI mess kits, 4 of which are complete with the utensils. Those things are about bulletproof, thick stainless steel and easy to clean. They're also compact, making it easy to take one or two with.

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I still have mine from when I was a cub scout - it's in the same condition today as it was back then. Other than shooting it with a .45 or running it over with an M1, I can't imagine anything harming it.