Thunder Mountain Tactical

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02-25-2010, 17:52
horsefighting

Thunder Mountain Tactical

Hey everyone, i'm new to the forum but i've been lurking here and also on ar15.com

I recently had a situation with a company called Thunder Mountain Tactical out of Flourissant, CO (near Colo Spgs).

What happened was, I bought from them a "LMT" upper receiver, that was marked by a tag on the barrel. It was labeled "LMT 14.5in 1/9 twist". Now, being new to the ar scene, I thought LMT was a great brand and it was deal for only $400+/- or something like that.

Well, when i got home, i started putting my rifle together. First weird thing I noticed was that my bolt didn't fit inside, just about 1/8in too long. Turned out, the gas tube wasnt properly installed so the gas key was stopping early in the receiver.

Anyway, didnt think much of it.

Part 2, my KAK issue rails didnt fit either...after some grinding and modifying, they eventually fit in the d-ring.

Part 3, here's the kicker, after i get it all together, i show it to a friend of mine and he says, "Dude, this isnt an LMT. Its not laser engraved, and LMT doesnt make a 1/9 twist barrel"

So i email Thunder Mountain Tactical and confirm that they sell LMT uppers. Of course, I'm reassured that all they sell are LMT.

I also emailed LMT, and they confirm that it IS_NOT an LMT product.

Here are the emails from both companys:

2 From LMT:
If it doesn’t have LMT laser engraved on the left side of the receiver, it isn’t an lmt. We also DO NOT make 1/9 twist barrels. We make stuff for other companies, but we use their prints and material requirements. Therefore it is not an LMT product.

Gene Swanson
Technical Specialist
Lewis Machine & Tool Co.
1305 West 11th Street
Milan, IL 61264

Dear Paul,

Thanks much for the note. Normally I would be in touch with the dealer that sold you the product, but we do not have anyone in our system under the name of Thunder Mountain Tactical. On top of that, we don’t produce and sell 1:9” twist Lewis Machine product. We sell that 1:7”. That’s one of the reasons why the product would not have had the LMT markings on it.

From Thunder Mountain Tactical: (after questioning them on the issue I had with the delta ring)

Hi Paul,
Our uppers are LMT (Lewis Machine & Tool) Milspec. All delta rings are a
standard size, some rails fit tight but there is no difference in rails
between milspec and civilian rails. Some of the cheaper rails systems may
need modifications or the use of a handguard AR wrench. Please give us a
call if you have any other questions.
Thanks,
Jason

Great, right?

After all that, I call Thunder Mountain Tactical and ask them for a return. Reminder, I have not shot this yet, just put it together. They flat out tell me, "No, nothing is wrong with it, if its not broken we won't take it back. You paid for it, you have to keep it"

Also, I am still, to this day, inside their 30 day return policy posted on their website. Even after mentioning their policy, they wont take it back.

WTF?

So after arguing with them about how its not a LMT product, (they eventually tell me its M&A, but because its manufactured by LMT, they still consider it to be LMT), they still refuse to take the return.

The thing is, if I put a Honda badge on my Acura, and even though they're made in the same plant, doesn't make the Acura a Honda.

*Also, they did not show up at last weeks gun show.

I had to file a claim with Wells Fargo/Visa who actually refunded my money and now I'm playing the waiting game to see if Wells Fargo/Visa can collect from TMT.

!!Buyer Beware!!

I'd watch out for this company and not buy from them.

Poor customer service and they sell fraudulent upper receivers.

Also, I know, next time do my research.
02-25-2010, 17:59
Irving

Free upper for the win!

Welcome to the site.
02-25-2010, 18:00
horsefighting

shit, i should have mentioned that, according to Wells Fargo, that TMT has to pick up the upper receiver at my house lol. That'll be an interesting visit...
02-25-2010, 18:08
Irving

Oh that is BS, there is nothing that says they MUST come to your place to pick it up. Just call them and tell them you can bring it back when they are ready.
02-25-2010, 18:53
275RLTW

Interesting....I noticed that their home page has paragraphs copied verbatum from ours....hmmmm......
02-25-2010, 19:05
hip55

The Better Business Bureau will help protect other buyers too.
02-25-2010, 19:58
Irving

I'd call Tom Martino as well. He'll give it more publicity than the BBB.
02-25-2010, 20:55
esaabye

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart

I'd call Tom Martino as well. He'll give it more publicity than the BBB.

Tom shoots AR's as well, has talked about it some in the past.
02-26-2010, 01:34
Jer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart

Oh that is BS, there is nothing that says they MUST come to your place to pick it up. Just call them and tell them you can bring it back when they are ready.

Generally it's going to be your responsibility to return it to the seller.
02-26-2010, 01:35
Jer

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stuart

I'd call Tom Martino as well. He'll give it more publicity than the BBB.

Don't waste your time with BBB. Instead file a complaint with the Colorado Attorney General. Unlike BBB they will actually investigate and can do something about it.
02-26-2010, 03:29
Irving

I've also heard that the BBB isn't as effective as it once was.
02-26-2010, 09:19
hip55

Since it is basically resolved, the BBB probably won't help unless you want to have a complaint on file for others to see.

Contacting the rep of LMT with the details will put pressure on the seller to stop misrepresenting them too.
02-26-2010, 17:47
Tora

Quote:

Originally Posted by horsefighting

I recently had a situation with a company called Thunder Mountain Tactical out of Flourissant, CO (near Colo Spgs).

Can you post the web page. I looked and all I came up with was a TMT in Idaho.
02-26-2010, 17:52
hip55

is this it?

http://tmtactical.com/
02-28-2010, 22:26
denverco

The link above is the company in question. Some of you may have seen this company at the Tanner Gun Show, which is where this purchase was made. I didn't see the Thunder Mountain booth at the last show though. I should add that the company the lower receiver was purchased from were great guys. That company is Shades of Gray Tactical.
02-28-2010, 22:41
Great-Kazoo

2 pages and no one pointing out to the OP,No LMT logo on the upper receiver should have been a hint.
OP, you hacked up a good rail, and other tell tale signs of an out of spec receiver, BEFORE you contacted the seller, why? i understand you are new to the AR scene but.........
they screwed you and other countless buyers at tanner and who knows what other shows, pimping off who knows what as LMT and no one's figured it out.
you got or are getting your money back i'd call it quits.
i've learned over the years some good deals aren't. we're here to help, ask before buying.
03-01-2010, 13:09
denverco

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim

2 pages and no one pointing out to the OP,No LMT logo on the upper receiver should have been a hint.
OP, you hacked up a good rail, and other tell tale signs of an out of spec receiver, BEFORE you contacted the seller, why? i understand you are new to the AR scene but.........
they screwed you and other countless buyers at tanner and who knows what other shows, pimping off who knows what as LMT and no one's figured it out.
you got or are getting your money back i'd call it quits.
i've learned over the years some good deals aren't. we're here to help, ask before buying.

The original post notes the lack of an LMT engraving on the upper.
03-01-2010, 16:23
Great-Kazoo

Quote:

Originally Posted by denverco

The original post notes the lack of an LMT engraving on the upper.

you think that would have been a hint it was not a LMT???

to be fair, RRA at their early stages did sell rifles with no RRA laser etched logo on the upper receiver.
03-02-2010, 01:31
denverco

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim

you think that would have been a hint it was not a LMT???

to be fair, RRA at their early stages did sell rifles with no RRA laser etched logo on the upper receiver.

Yeah I do... OP admits he's new to the AR scene....doesn't change the fact they tagged it and sold it as something it wasn't. He's gotten his money back. More than anything he's trying to inform people about a bad company not having a poor me cry fest. Why don't we give him a thanks for the heads up and let him know he can get advice here for future builds. /thread.