.303 British for elk or deer

I am a long time shooter and I have never hunted. My wife has hunted elk, deer, pheasants and geese. She has taken all of them too. I am looking to take hunter safety etc and I have a few options for hunting.
I have a nice M1A in .308 and then Mosin Nagants and even my 6.8mm AR.

Lately I have been thinking more and more about my Enfields. I have a
No 4 MK 1 and a No 1 Mk III. I have shot for fun out to 1k yards with both the Enfields and I was a foot low or 2 ft high with iron sights. I think it would be a lot of fun to use the No 4 MK 1 for elk or deer. I like the challenge of no scope and relying on all my marksmanship principles to place the round on the target for a one shot one kill.

What say those of you who are active hunters etc?

I'd say as long as you stay within the distance that you can get your shots into a circle of about 8" or so you'd be fine. You can get soft point hunting loads for the .303, so you should be OK there. I think I'd use the #4 instead of the #1 simply because of the sights, but that's just me. I've heard of this done before, in fact I recall an article about roughly this subject where the guy went and got a #1 and a load of ammo for it because he came to the conclusion, after seeing a guy with a #1 get himself a nice elk while he himself had a fancy Dakota Arms rifle and got nothing, that if he got one and practiced a lot with it that once he got good with that cruddy trigger his marksmanship basics would be well honed, and help him be better with a good rifle. Hard to argue with that logic, since for less than a decent rifle you could get the Enfield and a bunch of ammo, at that time. .303 surplus is harder to find now, but the basic premise is sound.

I'm not a big hunter either but am going Antelope hunting this fall in Wyoming and was thinking it would be cool to use one of my old Mausers. I would need a bunch of range time. But I want to mount a scope because a lot of the shots will be 2-300 yrds. and the old eyes are getting tired.

Keep in mind that antelope can hear and smell you a LOOOONNNG ways off. While it's possible to sneak up on them or (if you're lucky) to help them come right up on your location, you'll want a gun that can reach out. Antelope don't take much to drop, just good shot placement. I saw a .270 at somewhere around 25-50 yards throw the antelope about 10 ft.

The one shot elk thing is a rare occurance on elk.... well placed or not.
Shooting at distance reduces this even more.
Be prepared to shoot again as soon as you've fired on elk.
I've only seen about 500 elk killed. Only a small handful required one shot. Many even with excellent placement required at least two.

As for antelope, long shots are not always the case. In some areas where they are poached and truck hunted getting within a 1/2 mile is pretty close. In other less hunted areas 50-100 yard shots are the norm.

The 303 should be fine. If you can hit a pie plate at the distance you plan to shoot, in a cross wind, you should be good to go.
Spend some time at a butcher during antelope season and you will see how abused these antelope are when hunted. Many, many with poor shots from very long distances; requiring sometimes 3,4 or 5 shots to finally take down. There are also a lot shot with Uber Magnum Cannons destroying a lot of meat.

Have respect for what you plan to hunt. Shoot at distances you can reliably hit your target.
I'm not trying to address anyone in particular, just passing on what I've seen.

Thanks for the advice. I appreciate the honest responses.

I think there are a lot of deer and elk that will sleep safely knowing you are out hunting them. [ROFL1]

Lots of Enfields weren't sporterized for nothing, in fact I'd bet many deer/elk have been taken with 303. Used to see the sporterized versions (cut down barrel, modern sights, cut down or sporterized stock) at gun shows frequently. Not so much anymore, anyway should do the job. If you are not going to modify the rifle though, will definitely be a like hauling around a tree trunk.

cheers,
Tim

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Originally Posted by Colorado Osprey

I've only seen about 500 elk killed. Only a small handful required one shot. Many even with excellent placement required at least two.

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Hmmmm, don't like those odds. I've only seen 3 elk killed, all 3 dropped on the spot with a single shot from a .270 Winchester. One by my 16 yo son at 165 yards (range finder).

303 doesn't have the knock down power today' modern cartridges do, however still think it could be quite lethal on elk.

cheers,
Tim

A guy at work hunts a lot with a 7mm mag and kills most with one shot. Says they run about 30 yards then drop dead.

[ROFL1] You are hilarious. They love when your hunting also, they know they can have a few more days!!!

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Originally Posted by Drilldo

I think there are a lot of deer and elk that will sleep safely knowing you are out hunting them. [ROFL1]

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Colorado Osprey

The one shot elk thing is a rare occurance on elk.... well placed or not.
Shooting at distance reduces this even more.
Be prepared to shoot again as soon as you've fired on elk.
I've only seen about 500 elk killed. Only a small handful required one shot. Many even with excellent placement required at least two.

As for antelope, long shots are not always the case. In some areas where they are poached and truck hunted getting within a 1/2 mile is pretty close. In other less hunted areas 50-100 yard shots are the norm.

The 303 should be fine. If you can hit a pie plate at the distance you plan to shoot, in a cross wind, you should be good to go.
Spend some time at a butcher during antelope season and you will see how abused these antelope are when hunted. Many, many with poor shots from very long distances; requiring sometimes 3,4 or 5 shots to finally take down. There are also a lot shot with Uber Magnum Cannons destroying a lot of meat.

Have respect for what you plan to hunt. Shoot at distances you can reliably hit your target.
I'm not trying to address anyone in particular, just passing on what I've seen.

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The last two Elk I saw killed, were both one shot kills. Mine was a 325 yard shot right in the breadbasket, bowled it off its feet (which surprised me considering it was a .308), it popped back up, ran about 600 yards, and dropped like a rock. The second was my hunting buddy, his dropped where it stood on the side of a hill. I don't doubt that some require a follow-up shot, but most of my Elk, Deer, and Antelope were one shot kills. I've never needed more than one followup. And I haven't seen too many that needed more than one shot, two max, provided you do just what Osprey said above, shoot at distances you have been able to hit at consistently to insure proper shot placement.

A .303 is plenty for any of those, all you have to do is provide proper shot placement. Same with .30-06, .308, 8mm Mauser, and 7.62x54R.

Speaking about Antelope specifically, my favorite cartridges are .308, .264 Win Mag, or 6.5 Grendel.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Colorado Osprey

The one shot elk thing is a rare occurance on elk.... well placed or not.
Shooting at distance reduces this even more.
Be prepared to shoot again as soon as you've fired on elk.
I've only seen about 500 elk killed. Only a small handful required one shot. Many even with excellent placement required at least two.

As for antelope, long shots are not always the case. In some areas where they are poached and truck hunted getting within a 1/2 mile is pretty close. In other less hunted areas 50-100 yard shots are the norm.

The 303 should be fine. If you can hit a pie plate at the distance you plan to shoot, in a cross wind, you should be good to go.
Spend some time at a butcher during antelope season and you will see how abused these antelope are when hunted. Many, many with poor shots from very long distances; requiring sometimes 3,4 or 5 shots to finally take down. There are also a lot shot with Uber Magnum Cannons destroying a lot of meat.

Have respect for what you plan to hunt. Shoot at distances you can reliably hit your target.
I'm not trying to address anyone in particular, just passing on what I've seen.

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Are very good information.

I'll definitely throw in a +1 to the elk requiring more than 1 well placed shot. While you CAN do it, it isn't the norm. In fact, I've only had a couple of people tell me they dropped their elk (and it stayed down) with one shot.

The one thing I'd like to add is this: If/when you go to take a second shot, make sure that you are shooting at the SAME animal you shot at the first time. I've read and hear multiple stories of folks who shot an animal, injured or killed it with that first shot, it moved while the shooter was re-acquiring sight picture (lost from the recoil), they saw another animal that looked the same - but wasn't and shot that animal as well. Very bad ju-ju!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Colorado Osprey

The one shot elk thing is a rare occurance on elk.... well placed or not.
Shooting at distance reduces this even more.
Be prepared to shoot again as soon as you've fired on elk.
I've only seen about 500 elk killed. Only a small handful required one shot. Many even with excellent placement required at least two.


Have respect for what you plan to hunt. Shoot at distances you can reliably hit your target.
I'm not trying to address anyone in particular, just passing on what I've seen.

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+1

I use a .300 Win mag and my last bull was 400+ off and it took 3 shots, 2 destroyed the lungs and he was still running... the last one was a spine shot that pilled him up. He was going to die, but that tuff critter could have ran a long long way... even with out lungs!

How can I put this. You should only attempt a shot you are very confident in making. Hunters don't like to harm or wound animals. They intend to kill them fast and as painlessly as possible. Don't use them as target practice. Hunting without a scope is fine as long as you are confident in the shot.
My 2 cents

Inuits have killed everything from small critters to polar bears with 303, so go for it.

And as far as 2 shots for elk i have killed 12 with 1 shot and only 4 with 2 so ????

I was not trying to start any arguments or say you cant do it.
I am just stating that stats show it is not the average for a 1 shot kill on an elk.

I have done the one shot kill too; Statistically I am about 50:50 on the one shot kill.... but it is not the norm.

I have also seen an elk absorb 7 not so well placed shots from a 300 Win Mag as well.(was not me shooting!- I was begging to be let to take a head shot to finish the poor animal)

.303 will be enough for elk. As far as iron sights, I've hunted elk with a Savage 99 in .300 and never had a problem, but I knew my limits. No shots over 200 yards. Also, I grew up with the mantra for elk, "keep shooting until it falls over." Now this means good shots, not just spraying and praying. My dad always made us practice quick follow up shots when we were younger before we could go elk hunting. Just my two cents.
BP

I was always taught to just knee-cap Elks. Can't run with no legs.

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Originally Posted by Stuart

I was always taught to just knee-cap Elks. Can't run with no legs.

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I watched an elk jump an 8 foot fence with a back leg that was broken and just hanging there useless.... don't know how he broke it, but thats impressive to see.