Need advice on recourse....

I understand y'all ain't lawyers and all that stuff...

As we all know, poor Bear is poor. Got a MM degree, didn't find a job to use it at and is now working a not so great job not in his field (but praise God I have a job).

Now, I'm practically living pay check to pay check (serisouly, no cable, etc.) and have several student loans and school payments stuff that are automatically withdrawn each paycheck.

There is this one bill for around $35K. This particular one is being paid through a law firm - TERI loan from my undergraduate, went through the grace period, had a derrment for Masters degree, and now defaulted due to the amount of other student loans, etc I'm paying. I'm paying $200 a month on it. I know, I know, 200 ain't gonna do jack on $35K but it's ALL I have.

I just got off the phone with the lawyer talking about getting a statement, etc so the wife and I can really try to get a handle on this - planning on going to one of those free money managment seminar things but need actual paperwork to show people, etc.

Lawyer says he can't give me a statement. So then I ask him to give me a break down on the payments, etc. He said that I haven't paid anything towards principal and have just been paying interest and his fees all this time and I should really pay more. Which I agree, but I honestly can't. So, after regaining my vision and getting rid of the instant headache (blood pressure spike) I told him thank you and hung up.

So, what would happen if I just stopped paying this bill for now and put the $200 towards a different bill to get something else paid off quicker. I don't like the thought of "throwing away" $200 a paycheck when I'm not digging myself out of this never ending hole.... I know we don't have a debtors prison system anymore and I'm sure my credit is shot to hell, I don't really have anything in my apartment they can take... so bottom line is all they can do is garnish my wages?... Would they touch my wife's? etc.

I guess what I'm asking is, what recourses do I have?

I accept responsibility for the debts as they are mine. I'm not trying to shirk them, I just think that the $200 can be put to better use paying off a different debt... but then interest will continue to rise on that one.... etc..

Thoughts?


#$%^&$%^*%&*%^&*( I hate my life. [Bang]

It sucks to make minimum payments on stuff, but I think it would be worse to not pay at all.

First off you really need to take into account all of your debts, expenses and spending

I really think you need to read dave ramseys book
http://www.amazon.com/Total-Money-Ma...6877058&sr=1-3

It's not a get rich quick scheme thing, it's get your damn finances in balance and set a plan for this to NEVER happen again scheme.

My copy hasn't come back from loaning it and I am writing it off at this time. He also has a radio show. Try your local library.

they will be a lot less willing to work with you if you pay nothing. trying does get your somewhere.
I am not really a go to guy on the debt/loan questions, but I think it is best to continue paying.
maybe knock $50 off the payment possibly, but don't just stop all together.
maybe apply that $50 to another loan that you can finish paying off faster and then come back to this one.

The internet is a powerful tool, you can do a lot of research. It'll take some hours of reading, but you'll find what you need.

I'd suggest looking at various Not For Profit consumer credit help places. They can often get your debts merged together at a reduced APR to make the payments work.

Can you find side work doing something else? I have no idea what your skills are, but perhaps you can tutor, freelance, or just deliver pizza's two nights a week? If you can keep that cash somewhere it's important to build up a "nest egg" for emergencies. Ideally, two months living costs, I know that sounds hard but it can save you from much large problems if (or when) something happens. It'd also give you the occasional chance to do something with your S.O. or help pay down your debts a bit sooner.

There are (low paying) jobs that most anyone can do at https://www.mturk.com/mturk/welcome This is Amazon.com's "Mechanical Turk", a reference to an old Victorian age con where a machine appeared to play chess better than most humans. In fact, it was a midget grand master in a box moving the chess pieces. The moral of the story: A computer that seemed to have human intelligence.

The Turk does this by having computers ask questions which humans are paid to answer. A "HIT" is a human task that is requested by computers. On that page, left side "Make Money", click the yellow "Find HITs Now" button. When I look now, there is a task "Choose the best category for this sports equipment." On the right side, click "View a HIT from this group" and in my case, it shows a picture of a compass and wants someone to determine if that should go in one of two categories. To answer that question, you get paid $0.02. So obviously, the trick is to answer lots of these questions in a small amount of time. It isn't a lot of money, but it's better than zero.

Good luck,

H.

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Originally Posted by Stuart

It sucks to make minimum payments on stuff, but I think it would be worse to not pay at all.

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Even if those payments were helping to pay off something else quicker?

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Originally Posted by Wulf202

I really think you need to read dave ramseys book

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I've read it, which brought to mind the thought of: instead of just paying interest, I think it'd be better to take that money and put it somewhere where it will actually get something done.

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Originally Posted by sniper7

they will be a lot less willing to work with you if you pay nothing. trying does get your somewhere. I think it is best to continue paying. maybe knock $50 off the payment possibly....finish paying off faster and then come back to this one.

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They are complete jerks on the phone, so I'm not worried about them willing to work with me. But I do understand your sentiment. I am trying. $200 is the absolute minimum they'll accept. Either that or don't pay at all.

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Originally Posted by Hoosier

The internet is a powerful tool,...

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Rgr that, it is. I've tried those making money online things before but I always got "play" money. Does this site pay an actual check?

I've thought about trying to pick up a second job, but there are some problems there with the wife's schedule and ever seeing her, plus outside commitments I already have.. that are non-paying... I may have to look at those.... etc.

I'm just fustrated. I'll figure something out. Thanks for the help so far.

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Originally Posted by BigBear

Even if those payments were helping to pay off something else quicker?

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Yes absolutely. I know that you are in the position where you don't have a lot of room for adjustment. Here is what I did. I made a list on paper of every thing that I owed money on, and how much. I picked one that I wanted to pay off, paid minimums on everything else, and made large payments on my target bill. I think you've already done this, but if you haven't, start tonight.

Writing down all of your expenses and creating a budget will really help refocus your funds into the right places. If you've already done this, then disregard of course. I know that doesn't really answer your recourse question, but that's about the extent of advice I can give you. The reason I bring it up is because by doing what I've suggested, I learned to be able to not only get by on 25% less income than I was making, but actually make more progress on paying down debts than I did when I was making much more money. I cringe at how much money I've thrown away over the years from NOT looking at my finances.

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Originally Posted by BigBear

They are complete jerks on the phone, so I'm not worried about them willing to work with me. But I do understand your sentiment. I am trying. $200 is the absolute minimum they'll accept. Either that or don't pay at all.

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What they say to you on the phone or via mail and what they will actually accept are two different things. I've never heard of a person saying you either pay me X ammount no less, or don't pay me anything at all. I bet if you sent them $150 they wouldn't return your money. They may not like it, but they don't really have a choice. I think in the end, they will take what they can get, and it would benefeit you to keep paying them something.

Thank you Stu.

Rgr Hurley... I think I might try that... I just wanted to be honest and said something like, "Could I drop that $200 to $100 for a while since I have x/x/x I'm also paying?" And they replied with little less than "No, why don't you just go kill yourself."

Back to the grind.

Dad always said, "Son, you can come home anytime you need to." I've always thought I could "make it on my own" but I'm starting to think I may go home.

No, I wouldn't be a married man living with my parents. We still have grandma's house in the family and I could live there rent free for a while. The problem is, I'd be leaving a decent job for no job and a different state....

GRrrr... Where's that lotto ticket? (I kid.)

When I met my wife she had over $40K in debt.
Not for fun things, but for medical expenses for her daughter.
She had been paying minimum payments for more than 10 years,basically just interests.
We try and get ahead but could not.
After a few years we realized the c/c companies had been paid many time over just with the interests my wife paid through the years.
We filed bankruptcy and now, 7 years later we have re-established our credit in the upper '700's.
We do not feel bad about it because it was a big c/c company, rather than an individual (I do pay my personal debts) and because we had no other choice.
Like I said,being at the time a single mother, she could borrow money from the c/c for her daughter surgeries or go on welfare.
She tried to make it through the c/c and than the interests started piling up.
So, I guess, it depends on your own conscience, but, if you tried in good faith and just cannot make it, maybe filing is not such a bad idea...

I appreciate it Bellavite. My debt is not for "fun things", it was for school. Now, if it were for "fun things", you'd bet I've have A LOT more guns and y'all would know my face at these local shoots a lot better! HAHA.

As far as bankruptcy, I'm not even thinking that. For me, my beliefs/conscience, whatever, that is a no-go unless I'm on the streets or something.

I feel a lot better just getting to vent sometimes. I'm glad we have this board.

Well I believe student loans are not forgiven during a bankruptcy, the schools are worse then the credit card companies and have legislation passed so they are not included in general bankruptcy.

If Im wrong correct me, but I think im correct and you should fire bomb the school that you went to as payback for price fixing an education that is becoming more and more useless.

As more people are convinced they need to spend all this $$ just to get a job, more people do and more people apply for the same job and more people that spent way to much for an education cant get the jobs they expected or need to be able to pay off the student loans.

When everyone has the same qualifications that degree = nothing but finanical burden.

As you can see I hate the way the colleges get all these damn tax breaks while they continue to raise the tution prices so they can be rich and at the same time teach everyone how great it is to be a scumbag commie/marxist.

I applaud you for paying your debit and searching for ways to make things right and I hope sooner then later you get to use that over priced degree and your rolling in the $$ like the schools are, someday yourself.

Gee Jim... thanks for the pep talk! HAHA.

"One day" is right... it's also the story of my life! Haha. But how many other youngsters can say they've been to over 20 different nations, played in front of hundreds of thousands of people, etc? Not a lot. I'm not upset that I went to get my degrees, I just feel (depressed?) at the supposed "invalidity" of my skills.

Geek time:

Why Teach Music

I. Music is a Science - It is exact, specific; and it demands exact acoustics. A
conductor's full score is a chart- a graph which indicates frequencies, intensities, volume changes, melody, and harmony all at once with the most exact control of time.
II. Music is Mathematical- It is rhythmically based on subdivisions of time into fractions which must be done instantaneously, not worked out on paper.
III. Music is a Foreign Language- Most of the terms are in Italian, German, or
French; and the notation certainly is not English, but a highly developed kind of shorthand that uses symbols to represent ideas. The semantics of music is the most complete and universal language.
IV. Music is History- Music usually reflects the environment and times of its creation, often even the country and/or racial feeling.
V. Music is Physical Education- It requires fantastic coordination of fingers, hands, arms, lip, cheek and facial muscles, in addition to extraordinary control of the diaphragmatic, back, stomach, and chest muscles, which responds instantaneously to the sound the ear hears and the mind interprets.
VI. Music Develops Insight and Demands Research.
VII. Music is all these things, but most of all. Music is Art- It allows a human being to take all these dry technically boring (but difficult) techniques and use them to create emotion. That is the one thing science cannot duplicate: humanism, feeling, emotion, call it what you will.

That is why we teach Music,

NOT because we expect you to major in music,
NOT because we expect you to play or sing all your life,
NOT so you can relax,
NOT so you can have fun, though we do sometimes,
BUT so you will be human,
so you will recognize beauty
so you will be sensitive,
so you will be closer to an intimate beyond the world,
so you will have more love, more compassion, more gentleness, more good- in short, more life
"Of what value would it be to make a prosperous living unless you know how to live? "

That is why we teach music.

And so much more I could say. Geesh, now I sound like a limp wristed fag don't I... Did you know that those schooled in the arts consistently score above average on all levels on all tests? etc and etc.

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Originally Posted by BigBear

I appreciate it Bellavite. My debt is not for "fun things", it was for school. Now, if it were for "fun things", you'd bet I've have A LOT more guns and y'all would know my face at these local shoots a lot better! HAHA.

As far as bankruptcy, I'm not even thinking that. For me, my beliefs/conscience, whatever, that is a no-go unless I'm on the streets or something.

I feel a lot better just getting to vent sometimes. I'm glad we have this board.

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You do realize that TERI went bankrupt themselves recently? So maybe you'll have much more leverage now.

Here's something else I found, that although typically you can't discharge student loans in a bankruptcy, there are circumstances where you may be able to.

Yes, you can file bankruptcy against a TERI loan. You must file an Adversary Proceeding in order to discharge a Student Loan. It is normally difficult to discharge student loans. TERI has essentially removed themselves from the student loan guarantee business, leaving the loans unguaranteed by a non-profit. This does not mean your loan will automatically be discharged. Upon default, your loan will become owned by the bank whom issued the loan or a trust if it was securitized by First Marblehead. Also, you must past the hurdle of proving your loan is not a "qualified education loan". You need to read up the definition of "qualified education loan" at the IRS or Department of Ed. Essentially, if your school was not a Title IV or expenses were not part of the schools "Cost of Attendance" or you simply were not an "eligible student", then you don't have a "qualified education loan". Your lawyer probably will not help you at all with these details. READ up yourself.

But you may want to reconsider. You're essentially in the situation that is what bankruptcy was created for. You're underemployed, and heavily in debt, with no way out of it unless you've got a lucky lotto ticket.

When you talk to the financial adviser, keep the option open. In 5 years credit scores will take these crappy economic times into account, and you'll be better off just getting it over with.

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Originally Posted by ChadAmberg

You do realize that TERI went bankrupt themselves recently? So maybe you'll have much more leverage now.


Here's something else I found, that although typically you can't discharge student loans in a bankruptcy, there are circumstances where you may be able to.

Yes, you can file bankruptcy against a TERI loan. You must file an Adversary Proceeding in order to discharge a Student Loan. It is normally difficult to discharge student loans. TERI has essentially removed themselves from the student loan guarantee business, leaving the loans unguaranteed by a non-profit. This does not mean your loan will automatically be discharged. Upon default, your loan will become owned by the bank whom issued the loan or a trust if it was securitized by First Marblehead. Also, you must past the hurdle of proving your loan is not a "qualified education loan". You need to read up the definition of "qualified education loan" at the IRS or Department of Ed. Essentially, if your school was not a Title IV or expenses were not part of the schools "Cost of Attendance" or you simply were not an "eligible student", then you don't have a "qualified education loan". Your lawyer probably will not help you at all with these details. READ up yourself.

But you may want to reconsider. You're essentially in the situation that is what bankruptcy was created for. You're underemployed, and heavily in debt, with no way out of it unless you've got a lucky lotto ticket.

When you talk to the financial adviser, keep the option open. In 5 years credit scores will take these crappy economic times into account, and you'll be better off just getting it over with.

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Interesting. No I did not know. Thank you.

BB: where are you?


I need a private piano and cello instructor for my 12 year old. She's got the gift neither me nor my wife have. We'd like to help her make the most of it.

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Originally Posted by arz

BB: where are you?


I need a private piano and cello instructor for my 12 year old. She's got the gift neither me nor my wife have. We'd like to help her make the most of it.

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I'm in the Springs.

I am a brass player though. Even though I am knowledgeable in the pedagogical aspects of piano and strings, I would feel of better service to you to give you contact info for persons who actually play those instruments. I know a FANTASTIC piano player (played with the Falcs, Presidents Own, etc that's here in town) Cello might take a few days, but I know there are a few in the CO Phil that do teach lessons. PM if you'd like that information.

Contrary to popular belief: Just because I'm a musician does not mean I can play every instrument under teh sun! NEED MORE COWBELL!!!... Though I do play a mean "Hot Cross Buns" on piano....

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Originally Posted by ChadAmberg

But you may want to reconsider. You're essentially in the situation that is what bankruptcy was created for. You're underemployed, and heavily in debt, with no way out of it unless you've got a lucky lotto ticket.

When you talk to the financial adviser, keep the option open. In 5 years credit scores will take these crappy economic times into account, and you'll be better off just getting it over with.

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Listen to what this man says.............And keep all options open

Your not the first and you certainly wont be the last to do a bankruptcy

I applaud you Bear on your views on bankruptcy, I believe that is the proper way to think and act.

Let me just encourage you to work very very hard. Are you willing to work 4 jobs and only sleep 3 hours a night? It may take that. Obviously such a lifestyle would temporary.

Don’t let ego or pride get in the way, there is a valuable lesson to be learned here. You don’t want to prevent yourself from at least taking that away from this situation it (otherwise what’s going to keep you from falling back into the same rut again?). Maybe living in your Grandmother’s house isn’t such a bad idea (except finding another job).

Debt is slavery. As a man, you cannot be a slave. You must fight bondage with your life; whatever it takes you must be free (not from authority, bondage).

Do not just scrimp on dollars, but keep account of every minute of the day. Time is how you’re going to win this battle; you have to control your time. I noticed your mention of not even having cable. I don’t have cable, I don’t have any tv, and it’s not because I can’t afford it, I can. It wastes time. Time is your biggest asset, not money. You mentioned wanting to have free time to spend with your wife, that’s good. Have you thought about taking all the time you spend on this site and spending it with your wife? Then take all the rest of your free time and work efficiently. Now I’m sure that I’m over simplifying, but I’m talking principles here. You might try to take every time you’re distracted from work to spend time on this site or whatever and instead use that time to just stare at a clock for the amount of time you would have been detained. As much as I enjoy reading your posts and you input on this site, you’ve got to look at what’s important here. I think you would be willing to make such a sacrifice if it would be an ingredient to lifting yourself out of the mire.

I’m sure you’ve heard this before but, take responsibility for where you are, for the choices you made. As much as you were deceived by your school, you did decide to go there and had the opportunity to leave whenever you thought it would be wise. You can’t blame your circumstance on anyone/anything else, even if they are to be blamed for the majority of it. You will go crazy if you do that. It will only lock you down to where you are. If taking the entire responsibility for it all depresses you, that is natural and good. Let it drive you forward and up.

Press on man. Don’t resign yourself to the awful fate that is clawing at your ankles. Rise up each morning with vigor, then drop into bed each night exhausted. Don’t stop when you are tired.


Please don’t anyone take this as a dis to this site, that is not at all my intention. This man needs to examine the productivity of everything he does, including this forum.

First, Dave Ramsey is the man.

Its hard to give someone advice on one aspect of there money situation and not know the whole picture.I of course would not want you to put every single part of your life out here for everyone to read.

Like I have heard dave tell people, you dont have a debt problem you have an income problem. look into Delivering pizza's at night, that will get you 1500ish bucks a month. It will be uncomfortable and suck.

If you guys have car payments, sell the cars and buy a beater. that will be more money towards you debt.


Outside of this money crunch, the most important thing you need to do is hold your wifes hand and tell her you love her.(I know i sound a little queer but) money problems are the number one cause of divorse. So during these tough times hold her close.

In the end they may force you into bankruptcy, but I would personlly use that as a last resort. if they are garnishing your wages and you cant keep the lights on that might be your only choice.

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Originally Posted by BigBear

I'm in the Springs.

I am a brass player though. Even though I am knowledgeable in the pedagogical aspects of piano and strings, I would feel of better service to you to give you contact info for persons who actually play those instruments. I know a FANTASTIC piano player (played with the Falcs, Presidents Own, etc that's here in town) Cello might take a few days, but I know there are a few in the CO Phil that do teach lessons. PM if you'd like that information.

Contrary to popular belief: Just because I'm a musician does not mean I can play every instrument under teh sun! NEED MORE COWBELL!!!... Though I do play a mean "Hot Cross Buns" on piano....

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looking for someone in Castle Rock, Parker or east of there. CSprings is just too l long a haul.

but any leads would be most appreciated.

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Originally Posted by arz

looking for someone in Castle Rock, Parker or east of there. CSprings is just too l long a haul.

but any leads would be most appreciated.

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All my contacts are in the Springs or Denver proper.. I'll see what I can do for you.