Printable View
Thinking of using my .44 this year for elk. The place I go is mostly close range shooting, 100 yards or less. I have a Ruger Super Red Hawk with a 7.5" barrel and a Burris 2x-7x scope. Loading some rounds with 1500+ fps 240gr hp. I will probable bring another gun with me, 30-06, but like the idea of carrying a lighter and smaller gun. Ok, let me know what you think. Good experiances, bad experiances.
Moe power to you if you can pull it off, just remember that it's all about taking the ethical shot. If you don't feel that you can get a kill shot with the handgun, I wouldn't take it.
Plus, When I'm big game hunting I have enough to carry already without carrying a handgun too.
I have the same gun with a different scope. If I were going after elk I'd want to step up to a 300 grain bullet. You can load them almost 1,400 fps range in the super red hawk. Faster if its a cast bullet with gas check.
I'd save the 240 jhp for deer hunting.
300gr XTP or 250 gr Nosler Partition. I would take the 300gr as first choice though. 2-7x is ok, but you are really limited to aprx 100 yds for acceptable killing range with that pistol. I doubt you will need any mag past 4x.
H110 and Win 296 (2 of the more commonly used for 44 mag, so I'm doing a little assuming here) can be temp sensitive and lose some power with colder temps, so make sure to chrono and group check the ammo in colder weather too.
Thanks for the info. I am using H110 and I will look up recipes with 300 gr. Not worried about the wieght, because I have a nice holster that hangs right in front and actually offsets some of the backpack weight.
I carry a 45LC with me, along with my 45/70. If I'm with-in 25yrds and my gun is in my hand, I'm using it. I would never go onto the woods with a pistol only. If I did, that's the day the herd bull is 200yrds away. You know it will happen to you also.[Coffee]
Certainly do able, just make sure you can place a good shot!
Looked up several recipes and couldn't find any that had the velocity of the 300 gr more than 1325 fps. Is it better to have higher velocity or heavier projectile or somewhere in the middle?
I don't think I will carry both rifle and pistol at the same time, but have them both during the trip. The area I hunt is pretty wooded so long shots are rare. If it doesn't work out, it wouldn't be the first time I came home empty handed. I'm ok with that. Just wanting to try something different. And if I am not confident about a shot (too far, ect.) then I won't take it.
OK, have a seat and prepare for some general algebra and physics [Tooth].
Ke= M(V)2/450435 ft/lbs
300gr bullet at 1325fps is 1169.3 ft/lbs of Ke
240gr bullet at 1500fps is 1198.8 ft/lbs of Ke
Momentum is different.
M=M(V)/1000
300gr bullet at 1325fps is 397.5 power factor.
240gr bullet at 1500fps is 360.0 power factor.
Now, bullet drop:
300gr Hornady XTP bullet at 1325fps at 100yds (I fudged the rest of the variables for a cold day in the mountains) is aprx 3.7"
240gr XTP bullet at 1500fps at 100yds is 3.2"
(ballistics courtsey of http://www.jbmballistics.com/ballist...culators.shtml)
So, you gain half an inch of drop over 100 yds and about 30 ft/lbs of Ke with the 240gr bullet, but you lose 37.5 pf of momentum. FWIW, take the momentum in the trade off in this one. The other two are virtually nothing in comparison. Momentum is going to get that bullet deep into or through the elk. Not a ton of difference overall, but I would still go with the 300gr for the extra punch.
redhawk, over 1200 fps with a 300gr????
not sure what manual you are looking in, but sierra lists 1100 as max, hornady i think is 1200. remember, if you are looking at ballistics for a barrel longer than what you shoot, the numbers will not be the same. i loaded some 300gr hard cast a few years ago and was getting 1300fps out of them, according to all my manuals i was over max by velocity. i would also think that 100yds with that bullet or even a 240 would be OK only if the shot was perfectly in the rib cage and did NOT hit a shoulder or other large bone. i killed a cow elk several years ago with my 475 wildey. 400gr bullet at around 900 or so fps, at 25 yds in the rib cage, it did NOT exit. it did the job but only minimally. if i were after elk with a 44mag, i personally would keep the range to about 50yds or less.
Here's a load from Handloader Magazine writer is using a super red hawk 7.5 inch barrel.
He list a 310 oregon trail true shot bullet WNFP-GC H110 23.0 grains for a velocity of 1,495 COL 1.645
300 grain hornady XTP Lil'Gun 22.5 grains for a velocity of 1,386 COL 1.734
This is from the April 2010 Handloader magazine in an artical called +P loads for the 44 mag. Those loads listed were max loads and the PSI is 45-48,000 PSI. Work up slowly! Also these are loads for Ruger only firearms...specifically Super Red Hawk with it's LONG cylinder and brute strength.[Weight]
CapLock-Thanks for the load data.
SA Friday-Thanks for the phisics lesson.
I guess no I will make some bullets and chrono them.[Beer]
The Lyman 47th edition reloading manual has Thompson Condenter loads in the back of the pistol charts, and the 44 mag TC chart also says it can be used in Ruger Red and black hawks. They are hot-hot. I loaded (max)of H110 with Speer 240gr HP's and out of my Redhawk you could feel the cuncussion in your nasel passages. They are not for the feint of heart or new reloaders, IMO. I don't usually recommend them, nor do I post them where some may try the loads without realizing the sensitivity of running the pressure edge or working up a load.Quote:
Originally Posted by CapLock
Thanks for that info SA, I may have that edition, so I will check it out.
Out of a 4 in barrel it shot nice for me.
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=765870
I have taken half a dozen big game animals with handguns now and FWIW here is my a$$*le.... er, I mean opinion.
A handgun bullet has a lot more in common with an arrow than it does with a rifle bullet. You are poking a hole in vital organs to cause blood loss, thereby killing the animal. This is in contrast to the hydrostatic shock that will cause an animal hit with a high powered rifle to fall over dead almost instantly. You need the handgun bullet to carry enough energy to reliably penentrate far enough to cause this injury. I don't remember where I picked this up, but a long time ago someone told me that to shoot an animal with a handgun ethically, at the moment of impact it should still have double the energy (in ft/lbs) of the weight of the animal. I have treated this factoid as gossip, and I have yet to make a kill that I didn't consider clean and ethical.
Ballistic coefficient info is avail. on all bullet manufacture's websites, if you are shooting factory ammo so is rough velocity (for handloading, find someone with a chrono). With these two peices of info and the average weight of whatever you are shooting at (cow elk, buck deer, etc), you can calculate your maximum distance to target, and it will amaze you how close you really need to be. I took my first couple of handgun-shot animals with a 44mag, and then upgraded to a 454 and finally to a 460 xvr. This is not to say that you can't kill the heck out of something with a 44mag, just be very careful with your yardages.
Also, forget the JHPs for anything other than humans. Think about it; a 44 caliber solid is larger than an expanded 30cal bullet. Take the reliable penetration (and better BC) of a solid.
I also think long and hard about where the animal can go after the hit. So far, I have been really lucky in that every animal that I have shot with a sidearm has been dead within a matter of seconds or minutes, but you have to think like a bowhunter and not shoot at anything that is really close to a property boundry or an impenetrable (to humans) forest.
On kind of a cool side note, with the load that I developed with my 460xvr, I can ethically shoot a deer well over 150 yards (as far as energy is concerned) so I practice all the time on paper plates out to this distance, and set 150 as my maximum. Last year I hit my buck at 128 yards (prone with a bipod), he took about ten steps and 30 seconds to fall over dead.
Happy hunting! There is nothing like shooting something that big with a handgun.
All good info from everyone. This is why I love everyone on this site[Beer]
I carry my .44, along with my 30-06 in the woods. As a back up, I bring my semi auto .44 carbine, just in case I break the stock on my bolt action or something stupid happens. I look at it this way; by the time I get my 30-06 scoped on something that is within 100 yards, I can line up the sights on my pistol and knock it down within that range. Hell, the pistol only weighs 39 ounces plus the cartridges. The reality is, I think I started carrying it while hunting in case a bear jumps out at me. My brother had one sneak up on him when he was sitting, the bear got to within 25 feet of him before he knew it was there. Scary stuff! Yet he took the time to take pics instead of beatin' feet . . . dummy! If he'd not of had the pics, nobody in camp would have believed him . . . that was his logic.
If you really want to use your .44 mag, try this load "330-GR SUPER-HARD-CAST GC LONG-HAMMERHEAD AT 1400-FPS" from these guys: http://www.garrettcartridges.com/products.asp
They say a Ruger can handle the pressure this load will generate.
For Elk
you should use a Core bonded bullet, Sold copper bullet, Heat treated Lead with gas check or a Sold Brass bullet.
Hornady 300gr xtp may not work people tell me that the jacket comes off too easy. Barnes makes 225gr sold copper bullet that does good
on ammo Cor Bon makes a great line for the 44mag and Grizzly has a great line of boned core and sold brass "called the PUNCH" 44 mag ammo
Just curious here, but does the above all go for a .44 Mag. rifle too? I have a Win. Trapper in .44 Mag. I don't plan on hunting with it, but wondered how well it would do? I do know that the longer barrel is supposed to give better speed and energy and all that, but don't know the particulars.
Here is a general idea from Hornady . . .Quote:
Originally Posted by rondog
http://www.hornady.com/store/44-Mag-...EVERevolution/
Hmm, quite a difference, it looks like to me. And I happen to have a full box of those LEVERevolution .44 mag. rounds. I wouldn't mind trying an elk or deer hunt just once before I croak, probably never happen though.Quote:
Originally Posted by GETTYLEIGH
That trapped would be good for hunting dark timber. Range would be close and they would probably be moving fast.
I like the leverevolutions. the plastic tips do make them more accurate. I hit a 32oz gatorade bottle stuck on a tree branch at 75 yards on the third shot I used. I'd have never done that with a wad cutter in that .44 carbine.Quote:
Originally Posted by rondog
That said . . . when it comes to hunting I live by the old motto "safety, ethics, marksmanship." I don't see an issue with using a .44 on deer in a thick brush setting, but If I had a choice between that and a 30-06 for elk, I would use the 30-06. Some guys in hunting camp will you a hard time for using the 30-06 even.
What it boils down to is that most people are not going to stop their hunt, to help you spend the rest of the day tracking down your animal, if you were not wise enough to use an properly sized-ethical caliber to shoot it in the first place. Its not fair to the animal either, if it lies somewhere dying a slow death because someone shot it with an underpowered cartridge or at a weird angle. I'm not saying a .44 wouldn't take down an elk; but it takes a special kind of person to resist taking a shot if they know the animal is out of the gun's reach.
I'm betting you have a .308 around somewhere. In Colorado a guy can use a semi auto to hunt with as long as the magazine and chamber are limited to holding 6 rounds combined. They make 5 round mags for AR-10's and the like.
Um, if you're addressing me, I have a Rem 700 and an M1 Garand, both .30-06. Two Mosins in 7.62x54R, an Enfield in .303, a Swiss K31 in 7.5x55, and an Arisaka 99 in 7.7 Japanese, but nothing in .308. So if I were to go elk hunting, I wouldn't need the use the .44mag carbine, got plenty of big enough firepower.
But that's just it, I'm not a hunter. I wouldn't have a clue where to begin. I have the gun and the shooting skill, but that's it. No idea where to go, no idea what to do with a big dead animal, nobody to hunt with, camping gear, 4wd vehicle, etc. At least I have the sense to realize that taking off by myself to go try and shoot me a critter isn't a good idea. I'm better off buying steaks at King Soopers.
I've taken 17 white-tail with different handguns. each one meant more to me than a rifle kill. Just pick your shot with the utmost scrutiny and you'll do OK.