This country is so done.

Really. People are just going to bend over and take this airport security fiasco?

You give the government a yard, and they'll take a mile.


I'm disgusted by the people of this nation, and how apathetic, spineless and STUPID they have become.

Quote:

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Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

---

- Benjamin Franklin


These people deserve what is coming to them.


They can't even be bothered to know their rights and read their history.


I just wish I had somewhere else to go live a decent life when it all comes down.

The TSA thing is amusing. The GOP says it's for national security. The Dems are against it because the Reps are for it. And the logical people realize it's just another invasion.

We as a Nation caved long before this fiasco.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SNAFU

We as a Nation caved long before this fiasco.

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+1

MTN Man's sigline says it all

Quote:

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"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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Some of the lies that are widely believed:
-We will have cheap, abundant energy for a long time to come. shortages are decades away. Technology will be able to replace petroleum.
-Social security and medicare entitlements will all be paid. All that is needed are minor policy adjustments.
-The current global financial meltdown was unexpected and could not have been foreseen. It is a temporary 'bad patch' which has already been fixed by government intervention.
-Public and private debt can continue expanding three times faster than GDP indefinitely. Rising credit and debt are the lifeblood of prosperity.
-Environmental problems either don't exist or can be easily fixed with modest policy adjustments.
-The consumerist culture of the past 60 years is the natural perfection of capitalism, prosperity and American values.
-We have the finest healthcare system in the world.
-It's the Democrats/Republicans who are the problem. If our guy wins things will be OK. Corollary: your vote matters.
-Democracy in the USA is working. Predatory crony capitalism does not exist, neither does the Power Elite.

Our rights as citizens are under an incremental attack and have been since early last century, except where obamacare came in and took a big bite.

Most people will bend over and take it as long as it doesn't interrupt american idol.

The Frog and the Pot:

You want to cook a frog. You throw the frog into a pot of boiling water he will jump out.
You put the frog into lukewarm water however and turn up the heat gradually he will happily sit there until fully cooked.

Our freedoms are the frog.
The majority of people in this country are oblivious to the heat.


The stove needs to be turned off.



RobertH has it right: as long as the collective public can sit on their asses and order a pizza while watching whatever mindless drivel on the boobtube or computer they will just be Sheeple at the trough.

As far as the TSA issue, I personally won't fly. I don't care if I had an all expense paid trip to whatever tropical paradise.
NO PERSON has a right to search me unless I am accused of a crime or one has reasonable cause to suspect I have committed a crime.

When we are subjected to random search while traveling we are done.....Wait- DUI checkpoints!
When we are subjected to unwarranted wiretaps we are done......check!
When our children can be taken from us for unsubstantiated allegations we are done....check!
When we are told what we can say we are done....check!
When a person in this country illegally has the same rights and privileges as a citizen we are done...check!
When the educational system pits a child vs their parent we are done....check!
When we have a Marxist leader we are done....check!
When we owe far too much to foreign countries we are done....check!
When we no longer manufacture and export any substantial product we are done....check!
When we cease being a military powerhouse we are done....check!
When we are viewed as weak by foreign powers we are done....check!


Cheery picture eh?

I went to an Avs game recently and was randomly selected for a pat down...OMW MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS WERE VIOLATED...CALL THE ACLU!!!! WE NEED A REVOLUTION!!!! THIS COUNTRY WASN'T FOUNDED ON HAVING TO BE CHECKED AT A SPORTING EVENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM SO ANGY I COULD EXPLODE LIKE A MIDDLE SCHOOL GIRL AT A BIEBER CONCERT!!!!!!!!!!! [Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPTactical

Cheery picture eh?

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Very cheery indeed and right on target.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryan_Th3_K1d

I went to an Avs game recently and was randomly selected for a pat down...OMW MY CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS WERE VIOLATED...CALL THE ACLU!!!! WE NEED A REVOLUTION!!!! THIS COUNTRY WASN'T FOUNDED ON HAVING TO BE CHECKED AT A SPORTING EVENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I AM SO ANGY I COULD EXPLODE LIKE A MIDDLE SCHOOL GIRL AT A BIEBER CONCERT!!!!!!!!!!! [Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1][Rant1]

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The problem exactly- you feel is is acceptable to be subjected to a random search although you have commited no crime.
If this is OK with you that is your choice.
But dont even think about bitching when your 1st Admendment rights or 2cnd Admendment rights are compromised and infringed upon further.
Or any of our God given rights for that matter.
[Bang]

I think that is the root of the problem. As you age you tend to develop a political persona. As such you learn what rights you like and what rights you could do away with or not care if they were infringed upon (most people). What most in this country don't realize is that all of our rights and freedoms are tied together and an attack on one is an attack on them all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TS12000

I think that is the root of the problem. As you age you tend to develop a political persona. As such you learn what rights you like and what rights you could do away with or not care if they were infringed upon (most people). What most in this country don't realize is that all of our rights and freedoms are tied together and an attack on one is an attack on them all.

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Now I have had people call me an old fart before but never in such an eloquent way....


[Beer]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 2ndChildhood

Some of the lies that are widely believed:
-Technology will be able to replace petroleum.

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This IS true. Name one natural resource that we've ever run out of, without learning to use a different resource in it's place, usually a better one. Go back to the beginning of time if you want to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stuart

This IS true. Name one natural resource that we've ever run out of, without learning to use a different resource in it's place, usually a better one. Go back to the beginning of time if you want to.

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I think maybe you are the only one here that old [ROFL2]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPTactical

The problem exactly- you feel is is acceptable to be subjected to a random search although you have commited no crime.
If this is OK with you that is your choice.
But dont even think about bitching when your 1st Admendment rights or 2cnd Admendment rights are compromised and infringed upon further.
Or any of our God given rights for that matter.
[Bang]

---

While I agree with much of the sentiments here, there is no Right to go to an Av's game. So you have no right to not be searched at random. Same thing with flying. My problem is that the TSA shouldn't be doing the screening, the airlines should.

as the father of three young girls, there is no reason for anyone to be screening them naked or checking their underwear for any reason I dont care who they work for.

the metal detecting wand or using the naked screener that just shows a generic avatar should be enough.

i read an article this morning about a woman that was pulled aside because she was on her period and the TSA had to inspect her pad. careful that period might be an explosive.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birddog1911

While I agree with much of the sentiments here, there is no Right to go to an Av's game. So you have no right to not be searched at random. Same thing with flying. My problem is that the TSA shouldn't be doing the screening, the airlines should.

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X2 and is why I don't go to sporting events and the like, that plus thousands of mostly rude folk, crammed into one space isn't real appealing to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by hurley842002

X2 and is why I don't go to sporting events and the like, that plus thousands of mostly rude folk, crammed into one space isn't real appealing to me.

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^This
Not to mention the 100.00 ticket, 20.00 parking, 8.00 beer and nasty food.
And the mostly rude folk.

^ and worst of all its the AV's (gross)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stuart

This IS true. Name one natural resource that we've ever run out of, without learning to use a different resource in it's place, usually a better one. Go back to the beginning of time if you want to.

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Stuart, I hope you are right because the pain level if this is false would be pretty high.
Oil has been a huge resource for humanity, yielding 200 times the energy it takes to recover it. That ratio is creeping down now that we've skimmed off the cream. Many of the alternatives out there don't have anywhere near that favorable of a ratio. I've heard that uranium is a rapidly declining resource as well. What we need is nuclear fusion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPTactical

^This
Not to mention the 100.00 ticket, 20.00 parking, 8.00 beer and nasty food.
And the mostly rude folk.

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Lot's of ammo can be bought with that money.

Ethnic profiling seems to be the answer. Young men from overseas especially those with Arab connections seem to fit the profile of airline terrorists. Why they are searching babies & grandmas I don't know.
Truth is they don't know either. Incompetent administration officials are the cause. From the top on down they thrive from a fear factor. I don't really fear the terrorists, I fear the Government officials. I have never been hurt by a terrorist, but I have been severely injured by the "officials".

God protect us from both!

PS Don't forget the Arab women too!( I will guess they are possible terrorists too)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Birddog1911

While I agree with much of the sentiments here, there is no Right to go to an Av's game. So you have no right to not be searched at random. Same thing with flying. My problem is that the TSA shouldn't be doing the screening, the airlines should.

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X3

I don't get where my rights are being violated...I have the right/choice to go to an Avalanche game/fly on an airplane, and i know the cost(that includes having the possibility of being randomly searched). I don't see anywhere in the constitution that states that I have the right to go into a private/public establishment with a large group of other idiots with any kind of weapon. I guess I just understand the necessity for reasonable searches before entering a large group of people or an airplane.

Btw I paid like 28.50 for the game (got a deal on some tickets and carpooled...and I'm not old enough to drink and I dis-like any sporting event food). And I don't know how the Avs could be gross, personally tattoos and crap on the basketball players are gross. But hockey is simply the best sport on earth...so HA there!

Ryan, there have been approximately....2? explosives flown on an airplane in the last ten years, out of 100's of thousands of flights and millions, probably billions of passengers. More people die from airplane crashes each year than from terrorist related incidents on airplanes. Why does that make it necessary to fondle all the passengers? Especially since the cargo in the bottom of the plane is hardly checked?

Also, sporting event or not, people should only be searched if there is a warrant or reasonable suspicion. Being the lucky winner of a random selection is not equal to reasonable suspicion.


Hurley, the Niabrara Shale in Colorado, Wyoming, and South Dakota has as much oil as all of Saudi Arabia, it just isn't as easy to extract. 10 years ago, people started getting excited about being close to the shale oil being economically feasible to extract. Right now, people are working as fast as they can to work deals with oil companies because they (the oil companies) are rolling out their seismic trucks to look for wells to tap in the area. Also, of all the worlds oil production each year, only an average of 13% of it comes from new well discoveries. Like every other natural resource humans have used in all of our history, harvesting technology has progressed at a fast enough rate to allow us to revisit, and extract from previously "dry" wells.

Of course this can't last forever, but that doesn't mean that any of the predictions of us running out of oil in "X" amount of years should be taken very seriously. In order to even make a prediction like that, you have to start by measuring the amount of oil we have in reserve right now today, and calculate how long it will take us to run out using only that. There have been predictions of use running out of oil "in as little as the next 15 years" since the 1950's. It is the same as knowing how many more miles you'll be able to drive before your car runs out of gas, and stressing out over it, as you drive by gas station after gas station.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryan_Th3_K1d

I don't see anywhere in the constitution that states that I have the right to go into a private/public establishment with a large group of other idiots with any kind of weapon.

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You obviously missed the part that reads: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

I understand, that's why the security should be privatized and tighter on all aspects of flying, but I'm still not seeing where my constitutional rights are being violated(the only area i can vaguely see is "unreasonable search and seizure, but I personally find the search reasonable). At sporting events I'm sure there has been stabbings/robberies idiot fans throwing glass beer bottles at players. They don't need a warrant if you allow them to search you, and if you don't allow them to search you then you may leave w/out entrance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cysoto

You obviously missed the part that reads: "...the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

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I was referring to sporting events, usually private establishments which do have the right to deny you the right to carry a weapon.

For the record Ryan, I don't think sporting event pat downs are very intrusive.

Really even here with the "flying is not a right" BS?

Ok, well neither is driving. Neither is riding the bus. and Neither is going into the mall.


So if your all ok with body scans and full body pat downs just to exist on a day-to-day business,

then go ahead.


the fourth amendment protects against unreasonable search and seizure

PERIOD.

there are no "unless there is terrorism"

or "unless engaged in a privileged activity"

clauses in there.

IT'S NEVER. PERIOD. THE END.


Sure court rulings have twisted interpretation over the years. Whether you want to believe that is valid or not is up to you.



Like Benjamin Franklin said. Those who would trade their ESSENTIAL LIBERTY for TEMPORARY SECURITY deserve neither.


You know how many terrorists the TSA have caught in it's existence? ZERO.


Yup, you're trading your "privilege" to fly without getting photographed naked or felt-up for NO REASON AT ALL.


And keep in mind -


Since everyone seems to think it's "OK" because flying is a "PRIVILEGE"

Then keep in mind, following the same line of thought -

Driving is a privelege.

going to the store where you buy food, water, clothing and even *gasp* ammo, is in fact, a privelege.

the power and water that keep your home running are PRIVELEGES.


so go ahead, give it all up because you don't "have" to drive to get to work.

you don't "have" to go to the store to buy food

and you don't "have" to have running water and power to survive.


See how well that works out for you.

The future defenders of our freedoms and liberties. Great.

I won't get into the interpretation of the amendments other than the 2nd amendment...

But I have to agree with those that say flying is not a necessity. That's the individuals choice to fly. Therefore subject themselves to a search...

Do I agree with the TSA methods? NO. Just like alot of our recent laws and decisions, they are reactionary not pro-active.

I also see the flipside of this. IF everyone was to be so-called vigilant. You'd have people constantly making false reports or claims against their neighbor or person in the seat next to them. And I know how we all feel about being detained or searched unnecesarily...

Food and water are not. These are necessities. One may argue that you can go out and can get your own water and not get it through the pipes in your house. But remember, that thing called "water rights".

IMO, there is a huge difference between choosing to fly and subject yourself to a search versus going to the store for food or water.

While I'll agree, most people are dumb, I think people are smart enough to know when enough is enough or has gone to far.

All one has to do is look at our founding fathers...

those in power will take and take until we stop them or they have it all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elhuero

those in power will take and take until the resources are exhausted and the system crashes.

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Fixed it for you[Tooth]

I guess we just disagree on what's a reasonable search. If you don't like the fact you have to be searched to get on a plane...then DON'T GET ON A PLANE, no one is forcing you to fly! If enough people don't fly then the airlines will go broke and blame the government, isn't capitalism great?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

The future defenders of our freedoms and liberties. Great.

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Thanks for your vote of confidence! btw great job with defending the freedoms and liberties in your time also!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bailey Guns

The future defenders of our freedoms and liberties. Great.

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^This!
It seems that so many of the younger people have no issue if our Constitutional rights are applied on an "As Needed" basis for their own benefit or infringed upon to suit the whim of our Government.
It seems that so many only think of what THEIR wants and needs are and not what is best for the whole. The election of 2008 is a perfect example. There were many, many examples of young voters saying "Obama is going to this for me" and they did not think about the consequences to the whole.
We now see the wisdom of that mindset.
Go back to my post with the Frog analogy. Our rights are being slowly being taken away incrementally.
What will you think when they are gone?
The rights within our Constitution are not granted by our Government. They are God given as defined by our Founders. No person and or Government has the right to take them from us.
The 4th has tried in the SCOTUS and they made it perfectly clear: Our bodies are wholly ours and ours alone. No person regardless of who they are employed by has the right to search ones person unless: they grant consent or are suspected of committing a crime. There is a specific statement in regards to Government employees and although I do not recall the exact quote it stated that they were not allowed to search without a warrant.
What the TSA is doing is illegal-Period

As stated earlier are we going to have to be subjected to searches when we are driving to Wisconsin to go fishing for a week?
Things continue at the current rate, maybe.

Perhaps I would have a different view if TSA was actually accomplishing something. As Stu noted they have caught precisely ZERO bad guys.
Don't try to tell me that it is for our collective security when our southern and northern borders are wide open.


How many hundreds of thousands have given their lives to protect our freedoms and rights?
For us to now willingly allow those rights to be infringed upon is a direct affront to those that have given their all and to those that have served.

We owe them more than that.


BTW- I have very little faith in our future until Gen X really "Gets it"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPTactical

The 4th has tried in the SCOTUS and they made it perfectly clear: Our bodies are wholly ours and ours alone. No person regardless of who they are employed by has the right to search ones person unless: they grant consent or are suspected of committing a crime. There is a specific statement in regards to Government employees and although I do not recall the exact quote it stated that they were not allowed to search without a warrant.

What the TSA is doing is illegal-Period

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lol, just disproved your own point. It's not illegal because people are giving their consent!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iamhunter

Really even here with the "flying is not a right" BS?

Ok, well neither is driving. Neither is riding the bus. and Neither is going into the mall.


So if your all ok with body scans and full body pat downs just to exist on a day-to-day business,

then go ahead.


the fourth amendment protects against unreasonable search and seizure

PERIOD.

there are no "unless there is terrorism"

or "unless engaged in a privileged activity"

clauses in there.

IT'S NEVER. PERIOD. THE END.


Sure court rulings have twisted interpretation over the years. Whether you want to believe that is valid or not is up to you.



Like Benjamin Franklin said. Those who would trade their ESSENTIAL LIBERTY for TEMPORARY SECURITY deserve neither.


You know how many terrorists the TSA have caught in it's existence? ZERO.


Yup, you're trading your "privilege" to fly without getting photographed naked or felt-up for NO REASON AT ALL.


And keep in mind -


Since everyone seems to think it's "OK" because flying is a "PRIVILEGE"

Then keep in mind, following the same line of thought -

Driving is a privelege.

going to the store where you buy food, water, clothing and even *gasp* ammo, is in fact, a privelege.

the power and water that keep your home running are PRIVELEGES.


so go ahead, give it all up because you don't "have" to drive to get to work.

you don't "have" to go to the store to buy food

and you don't "have" to have running water and power to survive.


See how well that works out for you.

---

+1. Great post!

Transportation, in whatever form it may take, is a damn right. The right of transportation is right up there with self defense in my mind. It's a human right.

Signed,
A Gen Xer
[Punker]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryan_Th3_K1d

lol, just disproved your own point. It's not illegal because people are giving their consent!

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When people opt out of the scans they then get body searched and groped, no other option (unless they don't want to fly). They don't give consent for that.

Do you work for the TSA? Serious question.

No, I do not work for the TSA, nor do I know anyone that does. I just think that all this fuss about it is much to do about nothing. I also think people that use this as an example of why our country is going in the wrong direction are over reacting. People are not being forced to fly, if you don't want to be scanned or searched then DON'T FLY.

Quote:

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When people opt out of the scans they then get body searched and groped, no other option (unless they don't want to fly). They don't give consent for that.

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bingo, it's simple if don't give your consent then u don't fly period! I don't see anywhere where people are being handcuffed searched then put on a plane against their will.

btw, LOVE your avatar...wish that show didn't end.

I really don't want to wade in here...

The only point I would make to this discussion is to remind everyone that the Constitution and the Bill of Rights were written as limitations on GOVERNMENT, not private entities.

I could if I wanted to, own a bar and install a metal detector and security in the entrance and you would be required to go through it if you wanted to drink in my bar. That is a right of a private business, if they so choose and not a violation of your rights.

You as the citizen, have the right to not patronize my bar and take your business elsewhere if you so choose.

Personally, it would be a stupid business move as there are numerous other similar ventures that a person could spend their money in, rather than mine.

When it comes to quasi-government entities such as the TSA, it does leave me with a bad taste in my mouth, as they are federal (public) employees working for the benefit of the private industry (airlines), although the government has said it has a vested interest in the safety and security of the flying public. I would be happier if the airlines took care of the security of their own aircraft, but what if their means (as a collective whole) were more invasive? Where is the line?

I say this just as a point of pondering as my personal belief is, the TSA and all their security is window dressing for the public to feel safe in flying and the only things done that would ensure the protection of the aircraft from being a flying missile or hijacked for ransom have already been done in the form of securing the cockpit door and arming the pilots.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iamhunter

I'm disgusted by the people of this nation, and how apathetic, spineless and STUPID they have become.

Are you not a person of this Nation?


These people deserve what is coming to them.

Are you not one of theses people?


They can't even be bothered to know their rights and read their history.


I just wish I had somewhere else to go live a decent life when it all comes down.

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If yes to any of the above, is this how your are going to lead by example to anyone that was thinking "what do I do"?

I don't mean to attack you, I don't know you and that would be unfair. But the comments above do not instill alot of faith for those that would think about giving up what they have to stand up and fight for what is right. I have a wife and two kids, to give them up or put them under stress to fight for what is right would be hard to do if I knew there was no one there to back me up and everyone was just trying to figure a way out. Now it seems were off track of OP and all about avs games, but I hope you get me. Like I said, by no means am I trying to judge your character off an internet post, but it is disheartening.