lets hope these senators are successful:
http://drudge.pricetweet.us/v3/hop.p...ow_article%3D1
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lets hope these senators are successful:
http://drudge.pricetweet.us/v3/hop.p...ow_article%3D1
Did you read the next to the last sentence? Who is ths AFV news outlet? I thought it was proven it is actually Gettin colder the last 8 yrs, and the LIBS HAVE BEEN CAUGHT MANIPULATING THE FACTS!!!!
Senators vow to strip Obama climate power | View Original
Conservative senators vowed Monday to strip President Barack Obama of his power to regulate greenhouse gases, in a move that would cripple US efforts on climate change if successful.
Eleven Republican senators introduced a bill that would stop the Environmental Protection Agency from regulating greenhouse gases, which scientists blame for global warming, without explicit approval by Congress.
Under Obama, the federal agency has steadily increased standards on gas emissions. The Republicans accused Obama of circumventing Congress, where a so-called "cap-and-trade" bill to mandate emission curbs died last year.
"My bill will shrink Washington's job-crushing agenda and grow America's economy," said Senator John Barrasso, a Republican from Wyoming and skeptic of climate change who is leading the effort.
"I will do whatever it takes to ensure that Washington doesn't impose cap-and-trade policies in any form."
The Obama administration counters that a shift to green energy would help both the planet and the economy by creating a new source of high-paying jobs.
Senator John Kerry, a Democrat from Massachusetts who led last year's climate bill, hit back that Barrasso's proposal "puts the public health at risk and encourages the outsourcing of American jobs."
Democratic Senator Robert Menendez of New Jersey accused the Republicans of doing the bidding of industrial emitters, saying: "The health of our children must come before the interests of polluters."
The Republicans swept November elections but the Democratic Party still controls the Senate and the White House, meaning that Obama can veto any effort to roll back powers on emissions.
But the proposal is another sign that it will be virtually impossible for the Democrats to pass legislation on climate change, which failed to pass even when the party controlled the House of Representatives and held a wider majority in the Senate.
The battle in Congress leaves the Obama administration with a delicate task as it tries to persuade China and other growing polluters to agree to a global plan on greenhouse gases.
Obama has pledged that the United States, the second largest emitter, will take action alongside other nations to fight climate change. Last year was the hottest on record and one of the worst in decades for natural disasters, according to scientists.
??????Copyright AFP 2008, AFP stories and photos shall not be published, broadcast, rewritten for broadcast or publication or redistributed directly or indirectly in any medium
Why are they still pushing global warming agendas after the conspiracy was brought to light that there is no significant evidence supporting their theory? Isn't is closer to call it "global cooling"? WTF?
EDIT: haha beat me to it. ^^
they now claim we will see more moisture, and more wicked winters because of global warming...oh wait, now they call it "climate change".
well no fucking shit. climate changes every day, and the seasons continue to happen every year.
more evidence has been shown that the planet will go through warming and cooling stages. lets just hope mother nature isn't ready for menopuase for a long time and has hot flashes that burn the shit out of all of us.
"Global warming" doesn't just mean the temp. gets warmer. This is why they have actually stopped calling it global warming and started calling it climate change instead, because it is confusing. The effect of the polar ice caps melting due to increased temp. sets off a chain effect that will have different affects on climate in different places. Here is a link to a fairly simple article explaining climate change done by National Geographic: http://environment.nationalgeographi...-overview.html
A quote from the article:
"Scientists often use the term "climate change" instead of global warming. This is because as the Earth's average temperature climbs, winds and ocean currents move heat around the globe in ways that can cool some areas, warm others, and change the amount of rain and snow falling. As a result, the climate changes differently in different areas."
and
"Now, with concentrations of greenhouse gases rising, Earth's remaining ice sheets (such as Greenland and Antarctica) are starting to melt too. The extra water could potentially raise sea levels significantly.
As the mercury rises, the climate can change in unexpected ways. In addition to sea levels rising, weather can become more extreme. This means more intense major storms, more rain followed by longer and drier droughts (a challenge for growing crops), changes in the ranges in which plants and animals can live, and loss of water supplies that have historically come from glaciers."
No one is really arguing against the fact the the polar ice is melting because we have satelitte images and on the ground studies where it can easily be seen, yet this one of the things that has a major impact on weather patterns (climate). Also, the more ice melts, the faster the rest will melt because open water reflects less of the sun's energy than ice does, which warms the water and the air above the water, making it harder for new ice to form. New ice does form every winter, but it is less than what melts every summer. They have also found that even satelitte does not show the full extent of the melt because on the ground studies have shown that a lot of what they thought was thick 'multi-year' ice is actually pretty thin ice that will mostly melt during summer.
I just think that if we are (as a nation in general) going to argue about climate change that we need to understand what it actually is. It is a complex system that has a long line of causes and effects. It does not mean that it is getting hotter everywhere as the name 'global warming' implies. It means that our climate is changing in unexpected ways due to events triggered by increased heat trapped by all the crap we have been spewing into our air, not helped by the fact that we have and are cutting down our forests, which trap carbon and release oxygen.(A factor that is not usually discussed.)
It is naive to think that all the shit we pump into the atmosphere is not having an effect.
One volcano puts more stuff into the atmosphere than mankind has to this point in history and beyond.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeusExMachina
I think we should take all the climate change idiots and stuff them into Mauna Loa so they do their part to stop climate change.
That's what the hole in the ozone over the antartic is for,,,, pressure relief...
[LOL]
Got a source for that?Quote:
Originally Posted by roberth
Do volcanos cut down the forests that process CO2, too?
Not at the moment I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeusExMachina
I am going to have to spend some time looking up the claims for mankind's output and volcanic output. I may be wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeusExMachina
watched a show on discovery or history that said the trees in the very north and very south part of the hemisphere put out more oxygen than all humans could use, so I guess that is a good thing with all the deforestation going on.
http://www.factcheck.org/2010/06/eruption-corruption/
factcheck says volcanoes on average don't do as much as humans do.
''150,000 to 300,000 tons of CO2 per day at the height of the Eyjafjallajokull eruption''
"But the European Union’s air travel, which was shut down for days during the eruption, accounts for 3 percent of the EU’s total CO2 emissions, which according to the European Environment Agency was about 4,089 billion tons in 2008"
info from USGS:
http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/hazards/gas/index.php
"Volcanoes release more than 130 million tonnes of CO2 into the atmosphere every year."
the biggest threat from volcanoes is the massive amount of gasses that come out in large quantities. their relative percentages compared to the air we breathe, even in downtown smog filled cities can be pretty harmful.
Over the last 100 years a lot of really good progress has been made as far as emissions go from airplanes and cars and boats and powerplants etc etc.
but the number of the vehicles and planes and plants in use has also gone up.
unfortunately, that is the way it is. people can bitch and moan and complain all they want. I fly jets, I drive my big 4x4's and ride my 4 wheelers and do what I want to do. I pay for it. I use the technology that is available. until the costs come down and the availability of new technology comes about, ain't shit gonna change.
The important thing is to make further progress. Besides environmental costs, the economic and political costs of using fossil fuels is huge.
I had a discussion with a friend the other day, we could do a lot of damage to the middle east if we can get off oil as quickly as possible. We can also beat out China, who has a huge dependance on oil.
I'm not some drippy hippy saying we need to ban gasoline or something, but in the name of progress and our future it would be a very good idea to be wary of how much we dump into the atmosphere, and work on alternative energy.
I couldn't agree with you more.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeusExMachina
no no no... they said that the overall temperatures of the planet have gone up several degrees and will continue to climb because we are creating unsustainable levels of carbon dioxide which is not allowing heat created by the sun to escape the planet's surface.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
Either heat is being trapped on the planet's surface because of our use of fossile fuels or it isn't. It is that wishy-washy "uhh... we said that but we meant this" garbage which shows us that it is utter BS meant to raise taxes and sell carbon credits. Either it is global warming which requires regulation of carbon levels or it is climate change which is a global anomaly or it is global cooling... which lets rip the converters off of our cars because I'm tired of freezing my balls off.
[Tooth]
clean energy is a pipe dream.
oil gives a multiple return on cost and energy spent to create it, and nothing like wind or solar can come close to it.
things like wind and solar and especially ethanol all cost more to create than what they give. it's a losing proposition, and not a viable basis for a profitable company.
but govt wants to shove this losing proposition down our throats and use their endless supply of money (our taxes, our money) to plug the gap and cover the loss.
it's wasteful, expensive and not any better than what we currently have but it "feels" good and it's for the greater good. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yUpbOliTHJY
and all these yahoos also fail to realize that we get a hell of a lot more from crude oil than just gasoline, and many of those things can't be replaced.
of course we might be closer to some totally green, cheap, renewable energy if the govt hadn't been slashing funding for technology R&D in favor of social programs for the last 30 years.
and never mind the fact that we have the resources to be completely self sufficient.
nope, we need to "go green" by giving up all our green as taxes for nifty shit that they'll say we make too much to qualify for.
I think that we are fleas on a dog and once the dog has had enough it will shake us free. Volcanos send more "global warming" polutants into the atmosphere than anything else on the planet and they have been doing so since before the industrial age of man.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeusExMachina
don't get me wrong, lets clean it up so we're not having to breathe it in and drink it in our water... but clean up the crap for the sake of just cleaning it up... don't do it because its making the planet hotter... no colder... no its just changing weather patterns... no, wait... its just an excuse to make carbon credits to pay for turtle tunnels
I thought I'd learned my lesson before... to stay out of these type threads...
(All that about 'being beaten with experience' and that)
But, heck... I guess not...
[RANT ON]
That is from THE GLOBAL WARMING ALARMISTS THEMSELVES.Quote:
Since about 1750 human activity has increased the concentration of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases. Measured atmospheric concentrations of carbon dioxide are currently 100 ppmv higher than pre-industrial levels.[1] Natural sources of carbon dioxide are more than 20 times greater than sources due to human activity,[2] but over periods longer than a few years natural sources are closely balanced by natural sinks, mainly photosynthesis of carbon compounds by plants and marine plankton.
- "Climate Change 2001: Working Group I: The Scientific Basis: figure 6-6". http://www.grida.no/climate/ipcc_tar/wg1/fig6-6.htm. Retrieved 1 May 2006.
- "The present carbon cycle - Climate Change". Grida.no. http://www.grida.no/climate/vital/13.htm. Retrieved 2010-10-16.
Use the brain God gave you...
If natural sources of CO² are 20 TIMES higher than sources due to human activity - and the natural fluxations (sinks and rises) are therefore 20 times higher...
And CO² is not the largest... but the SECOND largest greenhouse gas:
What should we do?Quote:
Water Vapor - H2O 36 – 72%
Carbon Dioxide - CO2 - 9 – 26%
Methane - CH4 4 – 9 %
Ozone - O3 3 – 7 %
Oh - yeah...
The GOVERNMENT should spend freaking BILLIONS of the USA's (your) money to forcibly modify human behavior?
The GOVERNMENT should install thermostats in YOUR HOUSE so YOU don't use too much energy?
For a half a degree of temp over a hundred years?
Haven't you seen the proof that plants grow better in a richer CO² environment?
That, my friends is what you call a mutualistic, symbiotic relationship...
Just one of natures little checks and balances that we are just TOO FREAKING SMART TO UNDERSTAND.
One thing these folks never mention is the supporting data that reveals the industrial revolution is directly responsible for them being alive.
Yes - IT IS the reason the expected human life span has increased from ~30 to ~65...
Doubling your expected life span...
gotta stop that...
and while your at it...
Do us all a favor and stop breathing.
[Bang]
Sheeh - normally sane people, hypnotized with this 'climate change' spiel turn their brain directly to the OFF position.
To summarize MY PERSONAL POSITION on this matter:
Yes, humans affect the atmosphere.
Albiet, not in the grandiose way the alarmists would have you think.
Is that necessarily a bad thing? What YOU PERSONALLY DON"T KNOW?!
All the possible negative implications are being blown out of porportion...
For what you ask?
MONEY, YOU FOOLS.
[/RANT OFF]
Ahh...
Breathe in... the fresh air.
Breathe out... the destroyer of worlds.
You didn't link any sources. [ROFL1]Quote:
Originally Posted by foxtrot
Emissions are rising at an unprecedented rate.Quote:
Measurements from Antarctic ice cores show that before industrial emissions started atmospheric CO2 levels were about 280 parts per million by volume (ppmv), and stayed between 260 and 280 during the preceding ten thousand years.[34] Carbon dioxide concentrations in the atmosphere have gone up by approximately 35 percent since the 1900s, rising from 280 parts per million by volume to 387 parts per million in 2009. ...
Because of the way air is trapped in ice (pores in the ice close off slowly to form bubbles deep within the firn) and the time period represented in each ice sample analyzed, these figures represent averages of atmospheric concentrations of up to a few centuries rather than annual or decadal levels.
Since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution, the concentrations of most of the greenhouse gases have increased. For example, the concentration of carbon dioxide has increased by about 36% to 380 ppmv, or 100 ppmv over modern pre-industrial levels. The first 50 ppmv increase took place in about 200 years, from the start of the Industrial Revolution to around 1973; however the next 50 ppmv increase took place in about 33 years, from 1973 to 2006.[38]
Recent data also shows that the concentration is increasing at a higher rate. In the 1960s, the average annual increase was only 37% of what it was in 2000 through 2007.
Also, methane degrades into water and CO2 in a relatively short time. Compared to:
Believing that we are not having an effect on our planet is just sticking your thumbs in your ears and going "la-la-la"...Quote:
Carbon dioxide has a variable atmospheric lifetime, and cannot be specified precisely.[61] Recent work indicates that recovery from a large input of atmospheric CO2 from burning fossil fuels will result in an effective lifetime of tens of thousands of years.
Quote:
Dry air contains roughly (by volume) 78.09% nitrogen, 20.95% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.039% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases.
Air also contains a variable amount of water vapor, on average around 1 -4%.
-------------------
Atmospheric gases are often divided up into the major, constant components and the highly variable components, as listed below:
Constant Components. Proportions remain the same over time and location.
Nitrogen (N2) 78.08%
Oxygen (O2) 20.95%
Argon (Ar) 0.93%
Neon, Helium, Krypton 0.0001%
Variable Components. Amounts vary over time and location.
Carbon dioxide (CO2)0.038%
Water vapor (H20)0-4%
Methane (CH4)trace
Sulfur dioxide (SO2)trace
Ozone (O3)trace
Nitrogen oxides (NO, NO2, N2O)trace
0.039% CO²
Almost four one-hundreths of ONE PERCENT of our 'air'.
Yeah... we're killin' ourselves.
la la la la la
prove that we areQuote:
Originally Posted by DeusExMachina
you can't, which is why the global warming fanatics are chasing their tails. They changed it from "global warming" to "climate change" but didn't change their "proof" and "reasoning" so basically we're insulating the planet against natural cooling but it is cooling the planet rather than warming it suddenly or warming some areas and cooling others... Acting like people that don't believe we are having this huge impact on the planet's climate is "sticking your thumbs in your ears and going "la-la-la"" doesn't prove it exists or doesn't exist either.
There's 90,718.474 grams of "stuff" in an average human. What's one gram of arsenic going to do? That's .0000001 percent of a person, what's that going to do?? [ROFL1]Quote:
Originally Posted by funkfool
My point is that there has been a dramatic change in the contents of our atmosphere in the last 200 years compared to the previous 2 million. It is a good policy to reduce that change lest we get past the point of no return. Ignoring it is stupid.
You have 15 posts on this forum, I'm not going to do shit. You don't get the basic concept that altering the makeup of the atmosphere can cause changes that we are still studying. You also don't get the basic concept of insulation. Your house is insulated to keep the heat in during the summer, and also to keep the heat out in the summer. Greenhouse gases also reflect the sun's radiation as well as absorb it.Quote:
Originally Posted by weirjf
wow.. co2 to arsenic now eh.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AnalogyQuote:
Originally Posted by MB888
Because a fraction is a small portion of the whole does not make it less relevant.
Yes it is. Small portion of CO2 does not kill, while the other does.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeusExMachina
Well back in my youth, more or less the same people were certian the "The new ice age" was on it's way. Within 10 years there would be a layer of ice 50' thick from the north pole to the equator.
Didn't happen.
A few years they were back, claiming the hole in the ozone was going to expand. Thus incinerating everything on earth.
Didn't happen.
Then they were sure "The big one" was going to hit the west coast. Making Boulder a ocean front town.
Didn't happen either..
Pardon my skepticism at this point my life. But, with thier track record with the end of the world predictions thus far. I'm not holding my breath on this one either.
I think Al Gore and all of the "Global Warming" douchebags should be forced to shovel all of our driveways and walks tonight at 0300.
Naked.
With no hot chocolate after.
[Tooth]
Global warming myass, it's frickin cold outside!
Do you know for certain that doubling the amount of CO2 has not and will not have negative ramifications?Quote:
Originally Posted by MB888
And Marlin, I think the hole in the ozone layer has shrunk due to recent efforts. Maybe I'm an optimist.
They started calling it "climate change" because they got caught trying to say the Earth was warming when temperatures have visibly declined.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
Nice try. Too bad for you that satellite observations show Antarctica's ice sheet is growing.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
Arctic polar ice has been melting. Antarctic has been growing.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
I think that if you're going to engage in a discussion like this, you need to understand some basic science. Carbon is not an evil element -- it's the basis of life as we know it. In fact, carbon dioxide promotes plant growth which is the root of most food chains on Earth.Quote:
Originally Posted by spyder
Fact: The Earth has been much warmer in the past, even the recent past, than it is today. Beyond the well-documented warm spells of the 1930s and 1910s, the "warming" often cited by unthinking environmentalists is part of several long term cycles including the recovery from a severe local minima during the Little Ice Age. Prior to the decline that resulted in the Little Ice Age, Great Britain and Greenland hosted vineyards (one of the reasons Michael Mann has been using "tricks" to try to "get rid" of the Medieval Warming Period.
Fact: While ten years is a period indicative of weather rather than climate, the General Circulation Models in use at the CRU still fail to predict the last ten years of cooling (if you listen to Gavin Schmidt and James Hansen, this was one of the warmest years on record -- good thing for them they get to cook the books before anyone else can see them!). The GCMs may have been updated this year to account for the feedback mechanism of cloud formation but as of last year they didn't.
Fact: Carbon dioxide isn't even the most powerful greenhouse gas. Water vapor is far more powerful WRT heat retention. Greens target carbon dioxide because it gives them the leverage to control every aspect of an industrial economy.
IMO Anthropogenic Global Warming is the greatest scientific fraud in the history of science.
http://www.aolnews.com/2011/02/01/ye.../?ncid=webmail
apparently we ARE being watched! these guys are trolling our forums and writing articles about our thoughts!
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxtrot
[Golf] (close as I could find to something that resembles a golf clap!) well done[Beer]
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeusExMachina
don't worry, I got it!
[Neene1]
[Tooth]
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkfool
which is a good thing. someone mentioned earlier that it was 9%. um yeah, we would all be toast at that %%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlin
send me a PM on jan 1 2013![LOL]
Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper7
How? we won't be here.. [Tooth]
(yeah, right... how about one 12-22-12?.) [ROFL1]
And obviously you are the genius that will say it will? [ROFL1]Quote:
Originally Posted by DeusExMachina
I don't understand all the science everyone has figured out, but I do understand Al Gore heating and cooling his many houses each 10x at least the size of mine speaks loudly of his motivation, and that drowns out his credibility... assuming he has any.