Situation has been resolved. Thank everyone for their input.
Situation has been resolved. Thank everyone for their input.
He can only carry concealed without a permit if he owns or is in charge of the property that he is on. I don't believe that running security puts him in that position. Is he always in a facility that is in total control of the property owner?
Depending on your location, I know that you must be licensed as an armed security guard in both co spgs, and Denver, and most counties along the I-25 corridor. If he is only licensed as an unarmed security guard and not the proprietor of the business or facility he must have further certification, otherwise he is a huge liability to you and your business. Also, whether he had a person ccp or not, you are ultimately the final word on carrying or not, as if i were to carry on to your property and you asked me not to- even with a permit i must abide by your statement, since it was made verbal and in person i would have to leave the premises, if it was posted, i have trespassed onced entering your property, hope that clears it up.
I would immediately fire him for just ignoring your request in the first place - corporate hierarchy is a necessity to survive in todays cutthroat commercial realm!! - and depending on the hours, i might be able to help you out lol
Randy
Make sure is not carrying when you fire himQuote:
Originally Posted by NukeRJ
or make sure you are tooQuote:
Originally Posted by SuperiorDG
Scratch that,
Call the local PD and ask for an officer presence and tell them why.
He's not carrying plain clothed right now but the company does require my guys to be armed while they are there on duty. His statement is that while he is on duty he is not required to have the permit. He has had the class just waiting on the license. In Adams County as well as Thornton, I have never been questioned while plain clothed and carrying ( I do have my ccw) and been detaining someone waiting for leo to arrive to take over for me. Been asked what I was carrying but never asked for my permit. Im just trying to CYA myself and my guys. I did find that if you own the business you dont have to have a permit, but nothing on hiring someone and having them carry concealed.
Are you hiring by chance? lol
Thunder,
I checked several sources LEO and attorney and no one has heard of such a statue. Most commented same as you that they'd want to see the statue.
If it's real someone here will mostly have a statue that you can reference.
Good Luck.
Not an answer to your question but what seems to be a bigger question;
If he works for you, and he doesn't do what you tell him to do, why is the first part of this sentence still true? Another way of looking at this; why would I want to arm someone and pay them to be in my place of business if they can't follow instructions or I believe they are dishonest?
I'm not sure this is a CCW issue.
I reviewed all pertinent statutes and none are as your employee states. The only thing I could see for his argument is, the definition of a Colorado State Security Guard and him not reading/understanding that relates to employees of the state who are employed as security guards.
Not to discount the feedback you have gotten here but given the gravity of the subject I would think you would be best served with an answer by an attorney.
NOW!
Short version:
CRS18-12-105
(1) A person commits a class 2 misdemeanor if such person knowingly and unlawfully:
(a) Carries a knife concealed on or about his or her person; or
(b) Carries a firearm concealed on or about his or her person; or
(c) Without legal authority, carries, brings, or has in such person's possession a firearm or any explosive, incendiary, or other dangerous device on the property of or within any building in which the chambers, galleries, or offices of the general assembly, or either house thereof, are located, or in which a legislative hearing or meeting is being or is to be conducted, or in which the official office of any member, officer, or employee of the general assembly is located.
(d) (Deleted by amendment, L. 93, p. 964, ยง 1, effective July 1, 1993.)
(2) It shall not be an offense if the defendant was:
(a) A person in his or her own dwelling or place of business or on property owned or under his or her control at the time of the act of carrying; or
(b) A person in a private automobile or other private means of conveyance who carries a weapon for lawful protection of such person's or another's person or property while traveling; or
(c) A person who, at the time of carrying a concealed weapon, held a valid written permit to carry a concealed weapon issued pursuant to section 18-12-105.1, as it existed prior to its repeal, or, if the weapon involved was a handgun, held a valid permit to carry a concealed handgun or a temporary emergency permit issued pursuant to part 2 of this article; except that it shall be an offense under this section if the person was carrying a concealed handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-214; or
(d) A peace officer, as described in section 16-2.5-101, C.R.S., when carrying a weapon in conformance with the policy of the employing agency as provided in section 16-2.5-101 (2), C.R.S.
So, unless he has a valid CHP or is a sworn peace officer, he's carrying in violation of state law. An Armed Guard license will allow him to open carry in Denver, but does not in and of itself allow him to carry concealed.
Best post in the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by BPTactical
Doesn't sound to me like aguy I would want to have around, much less carrying concealed. Sounds like a wannabe to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SA Friday
+1, talk to an attorney.
I like to run questions by DA's all the time so I get the "prosecutors" perception.
I also have a couple friends that are lawyers other than the DA's officer and several sources are always nice, especially when they give relatively the same answer.
get lawyerly advice - hmm that from a lawyer [ROFL2]
Also, you may have knowledge of an employee failing to abide by your policies. Without reaching any conclusions or opinions, be aware that negligent retention of an employee that fails to abide by company policies can hurt an employer, greatly. [Muaha]
FWIW, I don't know what Thornton city code says, but I when I worked security in the Springs, city code specifically PROHIBITED a security officer from carrying concealed when on duty. Might want to have a look at Thornton city code, see if they have something similar. Or get a lawyer to do it.
Adams county can expedite his permit if it is required for employment/continued employment. I turned in my app last Tuesday in Adams and they specifically asked if it was for employment for this reason. I don't know how much faster it happens, but they do have some kind of program for it. Unfortunately for me, I didn't need it for employment so I'm on day 5 of 90 waiting.... I would tell him to look into that on Tuesday when the CCW office is open from 9 to noon...Quote:
Originally Posted by OneGuy67
In the mean-time, I do not believe that he can carry concealed without the permit oin this situation.
I just checked with a friend who knows about CCW law, he says he is 80% sure it's not legal for a security officer to carry concealed without permit, even if he is on the job... also there are many counties in and around Denver that require armed guards to have a Merchant Guard license. Guard can face prison time, employer can face business being shut down and a hefty fine. Just be warned.