30-Rnd magazine no-go in Denver?

So I was hanging with some friends the other day, talking about guns and how Denver doesn't allow open carry (lame Dems)... well one of my friends said that any high capacity magazine (more specifically he said my AR's 30 mags- I always have 210 basic combat load of 7 30rnd magazines) in Denver limits is illegal and I would be arrested if caught. Is this true? I usually keep my AR in the trunk of my car for just such an occasion as a wild hair and I wanna swing by a range. So hypothetically if I'm driving, and I never consent to searches, but if stopped and forced into being searched by DPD and they uncover an AR with 7 30rnd mags will I go to jail?

As I understand it possession of 'high cap' mags is illegal for Denver residents. If you are caught with them, and you live in Denver/Denver County, you are going to jail. For everyone else just transporting is ok but of course Denver has a way of screwing you. They will confiscate your weapons and mags and you will have to hire a lawyer and go to court to prove your case. Expensive. I've heard that the Denver DA will spare you this hassle if you just give up your weapons...

Just stay clear of Denver/Denver County when you have your toys with you. I know, not always possible. Going to my favorite range requires I drive through Denver County unless I want to take a really long detour.

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Originally Posted by mutt

As I understand it possession of 'high cap' mags is illegal for Denver residents. If you are caught with them, and you live in Denver/Denver County, you are going to jail. For everyone else just transporting is ok but of course Denver has a way of screwing you. They will confiscate your weapons and mags and you will have to hire a lawyer and go to court to prove your case. Expensive. I've heard that the Denver DA will spare you this hassle if you just give up your weapons...

Just stay clear of Denver/Denver County when you have your toys with you. I know, not always possible. Going to my favorite range requires I drive through Denver County unless I want to take a really long detour.

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Thanks for that Mutt... that's why I keep it in the trunk and I DO NOT CONSENT to any searches of my vehicle without a warrant or probable cause. I think that's total BS. I know this is a bit over the top, but I would have no problems telling a DPD officer: You can have my guns, when you pry them from my cold dead hands.
2nd Amendment, and I know my rights. I don't care what some city ordinance is, if it's violating my rights I defer to higher judgement. We should work on getting this changed, it's not right for me to give over a $3300 weapon system and then have to throw more money at the issue or just outright hand it over. F*** Denver. Some great city it used to be, now not so sure.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

Thanks for that Mutt... that's why I keep it in the trunk and I DO NOT CONSENT to any searches of my vehicle without a warrant or probable cause. I think that's total BS. I know this is a bit over the top, but I would have no problems telling a DPD officer: You can have my guns, when you pry them from my cold dead hands.
2nd Amendment, and I know my rights. I don't care what some city ordinance is, if it's violating my rights I defer to higher judgement. We should work on getting this changed, it's not right for me to give over a $3300 weapon system and then have to throw more money at the issue or just outright hand it over. F*** Denver. Some great city it used to be, now not so sure.

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You do not tell them anything or volunteer info. other than lic, registration and ins card you keep quite. It's ok to be friendly towards an LE as you should. However NEVER give any info out other than what is asked of you. "Do you have a firearm? I have a permit issued to me and carry as deemed necessary officer", I see you are carrying X firearm. That usually shuts them down as you have now moved the conversation away from you to them. Unless you have an outstanding or just did a stick up you have nothing to worry about.
As long as you are not a resident of denver cty / city who gives a shit what you have while cruising through the fine boundaries of Denver.
I have been stopped a few times by LE in denver out side of paperwork regarding the traffic stop they don't ask me anything.

Driving through denver is exempted from the laws it's only for people residing in denver.

Denver allows open carry if you already have a CCW....

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Originally Posted by Wulf202

Driving through denver is exempted from the laws it's only for people residing in denver.

Denver allows open carry if you already have a CCW....

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Very cool, if this information is accurate it is the first I have ever heard someone definitively say.

Most say they dont know what happens to non residence driving through Denver, and I have never heard of the open carry for CCW holders so thanks for that info.

Doesnt matter much to me about the 30 rounders as I am a Denver C&C resident...I know dont hate for it....I only have 20 rounders so I dont have to worry about it.

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Originally Posted by Wulf202

Denver allows open carry if you already have a CCW....

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Um, can you prove this? You wanna lead the parade while the rest of us follow along behind ya?

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Originally Posted by Wulf202

. . .
Denver allows open carry if you already have a CCW....

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First I've heard of it, too. (Of course, there are LOTS of other things that I haven't heard of, I suppose, but I have no idea what they would be. [Beer])

If true, the only way they'll know if you're doing it legally is to stop you and question you about a permit.

Don't think I want that attention drawn to me.

So it's legal for me as an Elbert County resident to transport my AR through Denver with a 30-round magazine, yet if I lived in the city, I couldn't even possess one? I'm not arguing whether that's correct or not; I'm just astonished at the (il)logic of it. I'm guessing that if they found my AR, they'd try to hassle me, regardless of where I live. Not bashing cops here; hell, my brother is one in COS. I'm just thinking of how it might really play out.

You know that if they have reason to search your car, they're going to look until they find something. I'm guessing that most policemen would rather not get tied up in the paperwork that would go along with that sort of arrest. They're only human, after all. Throw 'em a bone so they won't go any further. (Learned this trick decades ago when Quality Assurance showed up for their inspections.) How about transporting the rifle with a 5-round magazine in it or near it. Stash the others somewhere else in the car, far away from the gun. Maybe they'll see the rifle and legal magazine and let you go on your way.

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Originally Posted by Wulf202

Driving through denver is exempted from the laws it's only for people residing in denver.

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Correct, but be careful. Denver lists this exemption as an affirmative defense:

(3) It shall be an affirmative defense to charges brought under this section that the transportation of an assault weapon:

(a) Is through the city by a nonresident who is in legal possession of an assault weapon; or

Definition of affirmative defense n. when a defendant files an answer, in addition to denying some or all of the allegations, he/she can state what are called "affirmative defenses." These defenses can contain allegations, take the initiative against statements of facts contrary to those stated in the original complaint against them, and include various defenses based on legal principles. Many of these defenses fall into the "boilerplate" (stated in routine, non-specific language) category, but one or more of the defenses may help the defendant.

Common language - You have to go to court and prove you're exempt to get the charges dismissed. Meanwhile Denver will confiscate your weapons and gear as evidence for your criminal trial. You get to wait months for your trial date while racking up legal fees, missed work days, etc. Of course the anti-gun Denver DA will spare you this and drop all charges if you just agree to surrender your 'assault weapons'. Considering the legal fess will probably cost more than the value of the weapons, many do just that.

As others have said, the best strategy is to keep your gear in the trunk, know your rights (do not consent to searches) and don't give the Denver PD any reason to probe further if they pull you over.

Denver allows up to 20 rd magazines.

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Originally Posted by Wulf202

Driving through denver is exempted from the laws it's only for people residing in denver.

Denver allows open carry if you already have a CCW....

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This is incorrect information, open carry in Denver is prohibited with or without a CCW Permit. See http://opencarry.org/co.html. If you OC in Denver, count on having a bad day or more likely a bad year.

In addition, car carry (having a firearm immediately accessible while operating a motor vehicle is) in Denver is also prohibited, unless you have a CCW permit that is valid in the state of Colorado.

As far as the "Assault Weapons/20 round mag limit" law in Denver, you are ok if you are traveling through Denver but do not reside there. However, if stopped by DPD, I would not inform the LEO that I have a long gun w/ mags in the trunk. You do have a 4th Amendment right to privacy and a 5th Amendment right not to have to incriminate yourself. By Colorado law all long guns transported in a vehicle must be (essentially) locked up in the trunk without a round in the chamber.


A Little History Here:
Back a few years ago the legislature and Gov. Owens passed the Firearms Preemption bill which stated that no municipality or sub-government within the state could have firearms laws more restrictive than state law. Thus, giving the state govt. authority over firearms law in Colorado. At the time Denver had some rather restrictive firearms laws, some of which were may issue CCW, no open carry, no car carry, and an assault weapons ban amongst others. Denver sued the state over the preemption law in Denver District Court and essentially won the case. The state appealed the case to the Colorado Supreme Court. By the time the case got to the SC, the Solicitor General of the state (Colorado's state lawyer) at the time of the original case had been appointed to the SC. She recused herself as she had argued the initial case. This left essentially a 3/3 split on the court, a compromised was reached in which, IIRC, Denver was forced to abide by the State shall issue CCW law, a compromise on car carry, but their open carry ban and assault weapons ban and some other laws were upheld. Fast forward a few years and Denver modified their assault weapons ban by allowing the ownership of the said firearm, but limited the capacity of the magazines to 20 rounds.

Thanks for that info Storm... So as I understand it, and of course I'm smart enough to know by letting a LEO root through my car with consent but no grounds is a very bad thing, I CAN have my AR with 30-rnd mags driving through Denver as I'm not a resident of the city or county, but there is a chance, and again, if my judgement lapses or whatever and I'm dumb enough to consent to a search, I could be hooked and charged. Well, I do not consent to any searches. Good thing my boss/dad golfs with a lawyer who has a pretty good team backing him up. "If you don't consent to a search, and they do so anyway, they violated the law. Anything recovered in said illegal search is inadmissible in court. If they find an illegally obtained, full auto, AK-47 with a 100 round drum they cannot enter it into evidence as it was located during an illegal search and they have to return it to you." -Lawyer.

Let's see, I live in Denver and have about 65 30 round magazines for my AR, at least 12 13's for my Glock and a number of other bad things. Guess I'm going to be somebody's bitch soon :).

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

Good thing my boss/dad golfs with a lawyer who has a pretty good team backing him up. "If you don't consent to a search, and they do so anyway, they violated the law. Anything recovered in said illegal search is inadmissible in court. If they find an illegally obtained, full auto, AK-47 with a 100 round drum they cannot enter it into evidence as it was located during an illegal search and they have to return it to you." -Lawyer.

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He obviously is not a criminal defense attorney licensed to practice in federal court. What does he specialize in, estates and probate? Wow.

Yeah, the "illegally obtained, full auto, AK-47 with a 100 round drum" might not be admissible in court if it was in illegal search; but the gun still goes to the smelter. And that probably happens BEFORE the judge rules on whether it's admissible in your case.

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Originally Posted by Ronin13

Thanks for that info Storm... So as I understand it, and of course I'm smart enough to know by letting a LEO root through my car with consent but no grounds is a very bad thing, I CAN have my AR with 30-rnd mags driving through Denver as I'm not a resident of the city or county, but there is a chance, and again, if my judgement lapses or whatever and I'm dumb enough to consent to a search, I could be hooked and charged. Well, I do not consent to any searches. Good thing my boss/dad golfs with a lawyer who has a pretty good team backing him up. "If you don't consent to a search, and they do so anyway, they violated the law. Anything recovered in said illegal search is inadmissible in court. If they find an illegally obtained, full auto, AK-47 with a 100 round drum they cannot enter it into evidence as it was located during an illegal search and they have to return it to you." -Lawyer.

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They'd probably return it to you, notice it, then being in plain sight and all, arrest you, confiscate it, and smelt it after convicting you.

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Originally Posted by Tweety Bird

Yeah, the "illegally obtained, full auto, AK-47 with a 100 round drum" might not be admissible in court if it was in illegal search; but the gun still goes to the smelter. And that probably happens BEFORE the judge rules on whether it's admissible in your case.

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Yeah, I thought that was a bit fishy, considering they don't let you keep illegal weapons. I think he was talking about a legally obtained weapon. But I did hear if you have your weapon confiscated you have to petition the court/county/city for it back and pay a fine or something... what's up with that?

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Originally Posted by Storm

This is incorrect information, open carry in Denver is prohibited with or without a CCW Permit. See http://opencarry.org/co.html. If you OC in Denver, count on having a bad day or more likely a bad year.

In addition, car carry (having a firearm immediately accessible while operating a motor vehicle is) in Denver is also prohibited, unless you have a CCW permit that is valid in the state of Colorado.

As far as the "Assault Weapons/20 round mag limit" law in Denver, you are ok if you are traveling through Denver but do not reside there. However, if stopped by DPD, I would not inform the LEO that I have a long gun w/ mags in the trunk. You do have a 4th Amendment right to privacy and a 5th Amendment right not to have to incriminate yourself. By Colorado law all long guns transported in a vehicle must be (essentially) locked up in the trunk without a round in the chamber.


A Little History Here:
Back a few years ago the legislature and Gov. Owens passed the Firearms Preemption bill which stated that no municipality or sub-government within the state could have firearms laws more restrictive than state law. Thus, giving the state govt. authority over firearms law in Colorado. At the time Denver had some rather restrictive firearms laws, some of which were may issue CCW, no open carry, no car carry, and an assault weapons ban amongst others. Denver sued the state over the preemption law in Denver District Court and essentially won the case. The state appealed the case to the Colorado Supreme Court. By the time the case got to the SC, the Solicitor General of the state (Colorado's state lawyer) at the time of the original case had been appointed to the SC. She recused herself as she had argued the initial case. This left essentially a 3/3 split on the court, a compromised was reached in which, IIRC, Denver was forced to abide by the State shall issue CCW law, a compromise on car carry, but their open carry ban and assault weapons ban and some other laws were upheld. Fast forward a few years and Denver modified their assault weapons ban by allowing the ownership of the said firearm, but limited the capacity of the magazines to 20 rounds.

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Car carry is legal in Denver, with or without a CCW permit.

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Originally Posted by RMGO/Meyers Decision

See C.R.S. 18-12-204
(3) (a) A person who may lawfully possess a handgun may carry a handgun under the following circumstances without obtaining a permit and the handgun shall not be considered concealed:

(I) The handgun is in the possession of a person who is in a private automobile or in some other private means of conveyance and who carries the handgun for a legal use, including self-defense; or

(II) The handgun is in the possession of a person who is legally engaged in hunting activities within the state.

(b) The provisions of this subsection (3) shall not be construed to authorize the carrying of a handgun in violation of the provisions of section 18-12-105 or 18-12-105.5.
and the 2004 Meyers Decision, which states:

"Given the State's detailed regulatory scheme for concealed carry of handguns, I find and conclude that the portion of DRMC 38-117(f)(2) which reads "while traveling into or through the city to or from another jurisdiction, regardless of the number of times the person stops in the city or the other jurisdiction" is in conflict with state law and is preempted by state law. Further, I find that DRMC §38-11 8(a)(1) is in conflict with state law where it includes the phrase "when there is a direct and immediate threat thereto." In all other respects, the City's ordinances, as amended, do not conflict with state law in this area and may coexist with state law."

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The Meyers Decision hosed Denver residents by allowing Denver to retain the Assault Weapons Ban, but the car carry/shall issue/safe transport stuff came out in favor of the gun owner.

Also note, Pistol magazines are NOT covered by the ban(unless inserted into a rifle, for example 33 round Glock mags in a Keltec).

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Originally Posted by TFOGGER

Car carry is legal in Denver, with or without a CCW permit.



The Meyers Decision hosed Denver residents by allowing Denver to retain the Assault Weapons Ban, but the car carry/shall issue/safe transport stuff came out in favor of the gun owner.

Also note, Pistol magazines are NOT covered by the ban(unless inserted into a rifle, for example 33 round Glock mags in a Keltec).

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Thanks for the correction.

When traveling to the range though Denver, I keep the ARs in cases unloaded. I keep 20 and 10-round mags in the gun case. If I get stopped and there is an issue, I just say I have 10 and 20-round mags and pull one out to show. I keep the 30-rounders hidden in another location. I have a minivan so I can't hide anything in the trunk. All stuff is visible through the window. However, it is obvious I am on the way to the range, because I have targets, target stands, and other range stuff in the back of the vehicle. The range is east of Denver and I live west of Denver, so I-70 is the only way to go without a major re-route.

Simple solution: Don't break the law while breakin' the law. [Tooth]

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Originally Posted by Graves

Simple solution: Don't break the law while breaking' the law. [Tooth]

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And hope nobody one the road with you breaks the law. Somebody else can break the law and involve you in an accident.

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Originally Posted by SAnd

And hope nobody one the road with you breaks the law. Somebody else can break the law and involve you in an accident.

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But what are the grounds to search a vehicle involved in an accident? If I'm not at fault that still doesn't mean Johnny Law can search my vehicle. Even if I AM at fault I don't think they can search unless drugs or alcohol are involved in impairing the driver. I've been in a few accidents and two at fault where the police didn't search the car or the driver at fault.

If you are injured, and your vehicle is impounded, they WILL search it (under the guise of "inventorying your property"). No warrant or consent required.

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Originally Posted by TFOGGER

If you are injured, and your vehicle is impounded, they WILL search it (under the guise of "inventorying your property"). No warrant or consent required.

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Not a "guise". Protection for the officer when you claim your $20,000 diamond ring was in the ashtray and it isn't there any longer, thus the officer must have stole it. Been down that road a ton of times with owners.

Admittedly, evidence found during inventories can and has been used against the owner of the vehicle.

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Originally Posted by OneGuy67

Not a "guise". Protection for the officer when you claim your $20,000 diamond ring was in the ashtray and it isn't there any longer, thus the officer must have stole it. Been down that road a ton of times with owners.

Admittedly, evidence found during inventories can and has been used against the owner of the vehicle.

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Perhaps "guise" was the incorrect word, no disrespect meant. I know there are scumbags that will claim their Rolex went missing from their 73 Datsun B210 while they were in the ambulance...[Rant1]. I also realize there is a safety factor in the event that say, the driver had something hazardous (think biological samples, volatile chemicals) that might be a concern if the vehicle is moved or stored.

[Beer]

Doesn't the recent supreme court ruling strike down many of these laws. I am referring to the ban on handguns case in DC.

Jeeze, I gots nothing but 30-rd mags, guess I'm fucked. Of course, my AR and mags never get near Denver.....[Beer]

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Originally Posted by nynco

Doesn't the recent supreme court ruling strike down many of these laws. I am referring to the ban on handguns case in DC.

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Are you referring to Denver's 30 round magazine ban?



The Heller (DC) and McDonald (Chicago) cases basically did three things:

1) Affirmed that the Second Amendment confers an "individual" right to own and possess a firearm. No bans on commonly held firearms. (Heller)

2) Conferred that an individual has the right to keep an operable firearm in their home for self-defense. (Heller)

3) Conferred that the Second Amendment is incorporated under the "Due Process" clause of the 14th Amendment and is thus applicable to State and Local Governments. (McDonald)

So called "reasonable restrictions" were allowed in the Heller decision. Those potentially being firearms licensing and registration, Assault Weapon Bans, Hi-Cap Mag bans, machine gun bans, et cetera...

What it did not address was the "Bear" part of "Keep and Bear Arms".

What's coming down the pike now are getting rid of "unreasonable licensing schemes"; ones that are so prohibitive that the average Joe can't comply (like in NYC where it costs something like $300 every few years to keep up a pistol license), and "Shall Issue Concealed Carry" for places like Illinois and California.


So as you can see at this time these decisions will not affect the Denver Mag Ban. It's possible in the future we may see a suit against California's, or Massachusetts' AWB, but I think that's years off. Denver's small potatoes. Any effect on Denver's laws will come from a bigger case like California who's AWB is much more onerous.

I wish we could just tell .gov to stay outta my womb! I mean, gun cabinet. [LOL]

If the handgun bans of Chicago and DC were overturned than how can cities continue to ban certain aspects of firearms. Seems to me like it just doesn't make any sense. I'm pretty sure most of these bullcrap laws would get thrown out of you made it to the highest courts. I don't have the money to test it though.

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Originally Posted by OutdoorsNative

If the handgun bans of Chicago and DC were overturned than how can cities continue to ban certain aspects of firearms. Seems to me like it just doesn't make any sense. I'm pretty sure most of these bullcrap laws would get thrown out of you made it to the highest courts. I don't have the money to test it though.

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Denver is a charter city and has some exemptions from state law. The law has been tested and held.

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Originally Posted by OutdoorsNative

If the handgun bans of Chicago and DC were overturned than how can cities continue to ban certain aspects of firearms. Seems to me like it just doesn't make any sense. I'm pretty sure most of these bullcrap laws would get thrown out of you made it to the highest courts. I don't have the money to test it though.

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The lawsuits were city specific and the resulting case law was tailored to meet the arguments towards the specific city only. The Supreme Court has shied away from taking on a gun related case that would impact all firearm laws in the country.

The Denver Assault Weapons ban is largely defunct, but their magazine ban remains.

Please see
http://www.rmgo.org/gun-law-faqs/assault-weapons