Please act

Putting this in General so it gets exposure.

The email earlier today from RMGO really concerns me. Typically I am pretty sceptical from any email from Dudley Brown, but not this one.

The Boulder Ranger District has a history of closing land under for false reasoning and outright lies. Case in point: Left hand Canyon. Just past the shooting area there used to be a trail called Carnage Canyon. The BRD felt the trail needed to be closed and there was a plan made for an alternative area for OHV use on Firemans Hill. This was about 4 years ago if I can recall. This is what really happened: The BRD started to build a challenge course for us rock crawling fools by putting up a few cables and posts on top of Firemans hill and calling it the challenge area, but to this day it remains closed because of some "engineering issues" In the meantime the BRD stated that it would not actually close carnage canyon until the alternate area was opened, that being said, as soon as the "challenge area" was started they closed carnage canyon for "sedimentary" issues that were undocumented and unsubstantiated. To this day both areas are closed I'm assuming forever. I know that was an OHV issue, but here's how it relates to shooters.

The proposal for the renovation of the Allenspark shooting area is the same bait and switch tactic they pulled on us off roaders. If you look at proposal B in the Allenspark EA it is the same story all over again, but this time for the shooting area instead of an OHV trail.

http://a123.g.akamai.net/7/123/11558...LT2_052703.pdf


The closure of the area is only in effect until the end of this year and has to re-open by law. If they decide on proposal "B" I fear that they will use the same tactic they used on the OHV community and start developing the shooting area, but never actually opening it. Proposal "C" is absolutely unacceptable, permanent closure.

PLEASE contact the US forest service, representatives, congressman, govener, relatives, everyone you can and fight to get this area opened again, not closed permanently as the BRD would like to do.

what was it someone said in another thread?

Quote:

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but you are trying to herd cats in my opinion...

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screw it, let em close them all.


I cannot care anymore

I miss Carnage, it was nice and close and fun. Carnage BV is just too far for a spur of the moment run.

I guess he is listening to us. We asked from some more facts in his emails (this one provided an external link as well as the proposals) and we asked for a call to action other than money (and this email told us who to contact).

Nice work.

I know, I was surprised at the email myself.

The BRD is a bunch of underhanded bastards. I'm sure if they get their way the area will be closed forever.

when we asked rmgo to get involved in clean up's (and even offered money and free good press), the dud not only said no but made it a point to insult us for even trying . his email is a little johnny come lately in my opinion and im not impressed one bit.

Ahh,,, but now maybe he needs to make the mortgage...

Screw RMGO, I wont support them for anything. I thought I got rid of seeig these damn emails, but this thread like an accident, I couldnthelp but open it up.

[quote]I don't deny a range cleanup brigade would be nice. But, it wouldn't change the views (anti- or pro-gun) of the Park Service bureaucrat. And even if it did, so what? For a group focused on public policy (i.e. gun laws), this does nothing.-dudley brown [quote]

Hey, I'm not part of RMGO, or have any association with them. I could give two shits if you want to bash that organazation. Make your own thread to do it. There was good info in that email, and he didn't ask for money either.

I posted because the Boulder Ranger District has been allowed to run amok on public lands and are continually striving to PERMANANTLY close PUBLIC land. They have a history of it and this falls right in line with their MO. I thought there were people here that cared enough about not getting the few areas we do have get shut down to take 2 minutes and write a letter.

I guess I will just stick with my 4x4 associations to call for help with land use issues as it seems to me that no one here really cares when the GOVERNMENT is taking YOUR LAND from you. For all the big anti-gov talk on this board it is astonishing to see that no one is willing to take a few minutes and ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING.

I can see now why it is the 4X4 clubs that held annual clean ups of the SHOOTING AREA of Left hand canyon, not the shooters.

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Originally Posted by jscwerve

Hey, I'm not part of RMGO, or have any association with them. I could give two shits if you want to bash that organazation. Make your own thread to do it. There was good info in that email, and he didn't ask for money either.

I posted because the Boulder Ranger District has been allowed to run amok on public lands and are continually striving to PERMANANTLY close PUBLIC land. They have a history of it and this falls right in line with their MO. I thought there were people here that cared enough about not getting the few areas we do have get shut down to take 2 minutes and write a letter.

I guess I will just stick with my 4x4 associations to call for help with land use issues as it seems to me that no one here really cares when the GOVERNMENT is taking YOUR LAND from you. For all the big anti-gov talk on this board it is astonishing to see that no one is willing to take a few minutes and ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING.

I can see now why it is the 4X4 clubs that held annual clean ups of the SHOOTING AREA of Left hand canyon, not the shooters.

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can someone who is better at the written word please respond to as i cant even begin to inform him properly [Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang]

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Originally Posted by alxone

can someone who is better at the written word please respond to as i cant even begin to inform him properly [Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang][Bang]

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Says the man with no punctuation, sentance structure, or proper use of the word "to". Say something constructive or move on. If you don't believe in keeping land open, that's up to you. Bashing me for bringing the subject up on this board does nothing, and is rather childish.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jscwerve

Says the man with no punctuation, sentance structure, or proper use of the word "to". Say something constructive or move on. If you don't believe in keeping land open, that's up to you. Bashing me for bringing the subject up on this board does nothing, and is rather childish.

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Just so you know, Alxone has done a lot more than "say" something constructive to keep sites open. Gained himself something of a reputation even.

-Also, he wasn't demeaning your ability to write, but his own, requesting someone more eloquent come to his aid.

I guess I'm confused. You are talking about National Forest land aren't you?

Lefthand canyon was closed due to fire concerns. Are you saying they do not have a right to manage the lands and protect them and you?

Just curious.

"The Boulder Ranger District of the Roosevelt National Forest extended the closure order for theLefthand Off-Highway-Vehicle (OHV) area on July 6, 2011 due to hazards and hotspots within the Maxwell Fire and the current fire danger conditions. Managers will continue to monitor the burned area and fire danger conditions to determine when it is safe for recreational activities to resume. Officials will re-open the area as soon as conditions are suitable. See the updated closure order and map for additional information." http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fs...&pname=Arapaho & Roosevelt National Forests Pawnee National Grassland- Alerts & Notices

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Originally Posted by BigMat

Just so you know, Alxone has done a lot more than "say" something constructive to keep sites open. Gained himself something of a reputation even.

-Also, he wasn't demeaning your ability to write, but his own, requesting someone more eloquent come to his aid.

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I know he has, and I for one am very thankful. I am unable to carry more than a trash bag back in my Jeep loaded with guns, etc. Thats also one reason why I am perplexed at how he among all others could oppose this. I do understand that many people on here don't care for RMGO, neither do I, but that is how I found out about it. It didn't come up in the land use issues of the OHV groups/boards that I follow.

I am passionate about it because through years of seeing trails get closed to OHV use, it is only a matter of time before they start going after every other type of land. This is exactly what this situation is. If we don't fight to keep our own public land public, it will eventually be gone.

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Originally Posted by OneGuy67

I guess I'm confused. You are talking about National Forest land aren't you?

Lefthand canyon was closed due to fire concerns. Are you saying they do not have a right to manage the lands and protect them and you?

Just curious.

"The Boulder Ranger District of the Roosevelt National Forest extended the closure order for theLefthand Off-Highway-Vehicle (OHV) area on July 6, 2011 due to hazards and hotspots within the Maxwell Fire and the current fire danger conditions. Managers will continue to monitor the burned area and fire danger conditions to determine when it is safe for recreational activities to resume. Officials will re-open the area as soon as conditions are suitable. See the updated closure order and map for additional information." http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/fs...&pname=Arapaho & Roosevelt National Forests Pawnee National Grassland- Alerts & Notices

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Carnage canyon was closed September 17, 2008 for the reasoning of "sediment issues" that were unsubstantiated.

Thanks. I don't off-road, nor spend any time in those areas so I am unaware of the issues involving the areas.

Here is what the forest service says about that area. I'm sure you already knew this information, though.

"Boulder, Colo. – On Tuesday, March 22, 2011, the Forest Service re-opened most of the Lefthand Canyon Off-Highway Vehicle (OHV) Area to the public, which was closed due to the Lefthand Canyon OHV Fire.

The portions of the OHV area that remain closed are located between Lower Creek Canyon, commonly referred to as Carnage Canyon, up to and including Forest Service motorized trails 840, 841, and 842. These routes and the lands within them remain closed to all public uses until further notice. This closure is in place to protect public safety and give the affected lands time to recover adequate vegetation. Signs will be posted in areas affected by closure.

The Lefthand OHV Area Fire was contained March 14. Fire crews will continue to patrol and monitor the area until the fire is out. Firefighter efforts and recent light precipitation have reduced the number of smokes within the fire area; however a few smoldering hot spots within the fire’s interior may remain for some time."

Yes OneGuy, I see where you are coming from. THOSE types of closures are absolutely justified. Temporary because of the fires. I don't think anyone could argue against that.

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Originally Posted by mcantar18c

I miss Carnage, it was nice and close and fun. Carnage BV is just too far for a spur of the moment run.

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This +1


Also, thanks for posting this thread. I'm sure I saw the email and just deleted it without reading it. I'll get it out of the trash and respond.

Boulder also underhandedly closed the Rollins Pass trail over the divide to Winter Park. They closed the trail under the "Wilderness" or "Wild Area" or whatever act, that allows them to close areas that have not yet been developed by man. They must have just forgotten about the road that has been there for over 100 years and was the main corridor over the Divide until the Eisenhower/Johnson tunnel was built. They must have also forgotten about the railroad that goes/went through there. And the Moffit Tunnel. And the pipeline.

I've heard a rumor though, that the lady in charge is retiring very soon. Maybe we can get someone better in and get Carnage, Fireman's Hill, and Rollins Pass re-opened. I've been on both Carnage and Fireman's Hill and they were the most fun trails.

This picture was taken going down Fireman's Hill.
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b6...D550/ry%3D400/

I do not support RMGO, and will not support them. I will keep getting emails from them. I will sign petitions, and send letters on what I see fit. If the info from RMGO is the same info I can find on my own, then I will act. He will never see a dime from me, reguardless of how he changes his emails. I already sent my letter in on this matter, stating my disapproval on the closures. But bringing up RMGO here, is one of those things that is a bit risky after the way we were treated by their leader.

Also, an annual clean up doesn't even compare to Alex's weekly clean up efforts. So do not bash the shooting community you chose to be a part of.

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Originally Posted by jscwerve

I can see now why it is the 4X4 clubs that held annual clean ups of the SHOOTING AREA of Left hand canyon, not the shooters.

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If it is like the time I went up there to help, They didn't even get close to the "shooting area." They weren't going to stoop that low. That was one of the previous experiences I referenced in an earlier post.

At one point, one of the "leaders" of the the off road crew stopped by and more or less told us that we were wasting our time picking up in the shooting area, because They (the off roaders) were trying to get it closed. Then he backtracked a bit and promised to send a few guys over to help. that never happened.

By about 11, one could hear them start the engines and start to play. Meanwhile, the three of us in the shooting area, One other guy from this site, me and some dude that came up to shoot and decided to help. (Unlike the 4 cars that pulled up and left.) were still cleaning up the shooting area.

Never did see any of the "help" that was promised, Never saw the "lunch" that was made such a big deal about.

Since the link to their site was still up, I took a little stroll over and read about the clean up. For the most part, the attitude was; "Too bad those guys showed up, I'm sure we could have had that area shut down to shooting."

That was the only time I have ever been to lefthand. I'm not going back either. Oh, and if I ever run across an off roader on fire, I wil not cross the road too piss on them.

thank guys , we all know i cant type (inner city schools) . anyway its clear that no one wants to see these areas closed but after dudley's treatment toward us (co-ar15 members ) i dont think rmgo is going to get much love on this thread . also i do care and plenty of members and non members have helped out in cleaning up these parks.
the funny thing is i have been out there 3 days a week for months and have not seen you jscwerve or dudley. has rmgo tried to lift one finger to help in anyway NO. rmgo has waited till its in the court instead of taking action in the parks BEFORE they get shut down .

here ya go jcwerve an example of the dud's attitude toward us and range clean up
http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showth...what+rmgo+does

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Originally Posted by alxone

here ya go jcwerve an example of the dud's attitude toward us and range clean up
http://www.co-ar15.com/forums/showth...what+rmgo+does

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Wow!

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Originally Posted by roberth

Wow!

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what did i use a bad example [ROFL2]

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Originally Posted by alxone

what did i use a bad example [ROFL2]

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:)

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Originally Posted by CMP_5.56

I do not support RMGO, and will not support them. I will keep getting emails from them. I will sign petitions, and send letters on what I see fit. If the info from RMGO is the same info I can find on my own, then I will act. He will never see a dime from me, reguardless of how he changes his emails. I already sent my letter in on this matter, stating my disapproval on the closures. But bringing up RMGO here, is one of those things that is a bit risky after the way we were treated by their leader.

Also, an annual clean up doesn't even compare to Alex's weekly clean up efforts. So do not bash the shooting community you chose to be a part of.

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Awesome, thank you for sending a letter in reguards to this matter.

I know alxone's efforts are great and I am very thankful for the work he has put into that area. Too bad there are a bunch of assholes that will take advantage of it.

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Originally Posted by alxone

thank guys , we all know i cant type (inner city schools) . anyway its clear that no one wants to see these areas closed but after dudley's treatment toward us (co-ar15 members ) i dont think rmgo is going to get much love on this thread . also i do care and plenty of members and non members have helped out in cleaning up these parks.
the funny thing is i have been out there 3 days a week for months and have not seen you jscwerve or dudley. has rmgo tried to lift one finger to help in anyway NO. rmgo has waited till its in the court instead of taking action in the parks BEFORE they get shut down .

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Alxone, I want to personally thank you for the work done to the south site. Your dedication is great and you have definitely made a difference. No, you probably haven't seen me up there cleaning up all the time as I don't have the luxury of being able to go shooting very often, MAYBE one Sunday afternoon a month. I clean up what I am able to carry in what little space I have. Maybe next time I go I will bring the trailer I just picked up and at least then I can grab some of the pallets that seem to reproduce themselves. Also, sorry for my misinterpretation of your earlier statement about speaking eloquently. If you're out there and you see a big guy with a silver Jeep Wrangler on giant tires, some and say hello, that's me. I'd like to shake your hand.

I will once again reiterate that I am NOT speaking on behalf of RMGO. I am speaking up because it is a land use issue, it just happens that I learned about it through the RMGO email. I figured that even through all the political bickering on here, most people would agree on this one issue of getting a shooting area reopened, and be willing to send a simple email. Piss on RMGO.

For those of you willing, send an email here.
https://cara.ecosystem-management.or...?Project=32622



Now, should I bring upthe subject of H.R. 1581: Wilderness and Roadless Area Release Act of 2011



Naaaaaaaaaaa[Coffee]