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.....wants my drivers license number, name and my address on a bill of sale. I was selling him a shotgun. I told him he couldn't have that much information. He said he needed the information if I wanted to sell him the gun. I told him to pound salt in his ass.
Am I missing something? Would any of you guys give up that much infomation? Just wondering??
He can ask but he ain't getting it from me. A private firearms transaction in Colorado does not require such information.
You can LOOK at my drivers license and you can write my NAME on the BOS, but other than that I'm not handing some potential identity thief the keys to the castle.
Also as far as I'm concerned the seller makes the rules not the buyer.
Seems a little excessive for a buyer to request - I'd think a signed BOS should keep him out of trouble if something was wrong with the gun. Did you meet them in person or was it over email....did they try to get you to email them the info [ROFL1]
I have no problem doing BOS but I personally won't give anyone my address on one, or my social. You can write my name down, and if I don't think you'll sell it (or otherwise improperly use it) I may let you write down my license number-but my name should be sufficient.
I only give that info to Nigerians when making international financial transactions...not something I'd divulge on local gun deals.
It was in person. If he would have old me that on the phone, I would not have even met up with him.
Been covered a bazillion times here LuckyDog.
There are no legal requirements for a person to person sale as far as paperwork, it is the seller/buyers call.
I personally will get the name, DOB and DL # of a seller/buyer and put it on my copy of a BOS.
Just my CYA if you get a call or visit from any agency inquiring as to the disposition of said item. Makes answering said inquiry much less uncomfortable.
Do what you are comfortable with.
[ROFL1][ROFL1][ROFL1][ROFL1]Quote:
Originally Posted by Bailey Guns
You should have given him a copy of your BC and SS card as well.. [ROFL1]
I'm not really comfortable with the DOB + DL # part ... too easy for you to use that information for nefarious purposes (and maybe you're perfectly honest but you have a teenage kid or worthless cousin in the house that will steal it).Quote:
Originally Posted by BPTactical
If you're worried about legal trouble from selling a gun to "the wrong person" than meet up at a gun dealer and run an NICS.
But you're right, you gotta do what you're comfortable with. I would just prefer that people with requirements put those requirements in their ads.
I only require fingerprints and a hair sample :P
But truthfully, I probably wouldn't give that much info to him. A name should be enough.
I've personally never sold a weapon of mine, I like them all and don't really collect so there hasn't been the need. But if I do, I would be inclined to get enough information to point authorities in the right direction if I needed it, like at least a drivers license number.
The requirement of an actual street address is why I'm not a member of RMGO, Cologunmarket, etc. -that info is none of their business.
If I wanted a bill of sale with my name on it, I'd go to a gun shop.
I would give him nothing. A private transaction requires nothing.
You did right telling to pound sand.
You are obviously a Colorado resident via a Colorado phone number and Colo. tags on the car. The person needs nothing else.
Why would a buyer ever need this info from the seller? I don't get what he was trying to accomplish. I sort of understand a seller wanting a buyer's info but not the other way around. Someone was either logic-challenged or up to no good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Luckydog
I've never understood why people, who are so concerned with documentation, bother doing face to face private transactions. If you're that paranoid/brainwashed then go buy or sell via an FFL. It's the only sure way to get the government's 'blessing' on your activities.
Gonna throw a penalty flag on this one. You have any idea how many wetbacks/illegals have a Co phone number and Co plates on their ride? It proves nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by 10x
Legal requirements aside let's use some common sense here.
Do you really want to be on the inquiry end of a firearms trace with no documentation?
How do you think you are going to fare in a court of law with no documentation?
How you think it is going to work out if you get pulled over on the way home, Johnny Law the over zealous cop runs the numbers on the shotty and oops, it comes up stolen and you have no BOS?
Have fun with that.....................
While it is perfectly legal to conduct a FTF with no more than a handshake you need to CYA.
With the legal system being what it is you need to be able to prove that you took "REASONABLE MEANS" to sell/trade to a non-prohibited person if you are called into court.
In a bill of sale/trade I include a line that needs to be dated and signed/initialed that affirms the party is lawfully allowed to purchase/own a firearm as defined by Federal/State law.
It may seem like too much but when you get asked as to the disposition of item X because it was involved in a crime that BOS is worth it's weight in gold.
That's ColoGunMarket for you! That's why I only buy sell here! CO-AR15 wins again![Beer]
BPTactical, as you know, the seller does need to verify anything. He just cannot "know" the buyer is illegal. The illegals/wetbacks that you cite would likely have an English problem that would stop me from selling to them. The OP said he was the seller and the buyer wanted all of the information. The OP didn't do it. I wouldn't either.
I must admit, my first ftf I did here in Colorado, I was a little taken aback by just a handshake transaction. Coming from a place that you could only sell 4 guns ftf a year and there was a "specific form" that was filled out ( one copy for the buyer, one for the seller, and one that was turned into the criminal history board) I must admit I like the freedom better.
When the JBT come looking for a gun, the answer of "I sold it" is legally all that's needed here.
Pound salt in rectum.
+1Quote:
Originally Posted by hatidua
I generally produce less personal information than is required for anyone who wishes to become the Democratic Party's presidential nominee.
I knew that was coming.[ROFL1]Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monky
Copy of SS card - no problem, but I draw the line at a copy of my BC - hell if you don't need one to be POTUS, why would you need one to sell a shotgun!Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
I concur.Quote:
Originally Posted by hatidua
I've heard that one before Luckydog, haha. [ROFL1]Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Luckydog
[Beer]
i'd tell him to wait while I took a picture of my middle finger, then asked him for his email address......
[ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL3][LOL][Beer]Quote:
Originally Posted by cstone
You got me there! LMFAO!![ROFL1][ROFL2][ROFL1][ROFL2][Beer][Beer][Beer]Quote:
Originally Posted by UberTong
He was clearly worried that you were going to commit a crime with the gun after you sold it to him and it was in his possession.
Did you ask him if he just moved here from one of the commie states?
No, I wouldn't give that much info.
I have sold two hand guns, an AR, and a shot gun and have never asked for this kind of info and I wouldn’t expect. All I need to do is see your driver’s license or CCW and we are good. I expect the same when I buy things.
Randy
this. i did this to a guy once because he had no posts on the forum. its not a legal issue, he can turn me down, but then i can refuse to sell to him. really more than anything i wanted to meet him in person and make sure his information was legit. all i took was his name and phone number, but seeing the license made me feel better about it. if someone has a good amount of posts, and especially some feedback, then i don't require anythingQuote:
Originally Posted by Zundfolge
As long as they are of legal age and have a valid CO DL that is all you are required to check. On a few occasions I've allowed a SELLER to copy my address and DL # for a bill of sale, but you don't get a photocopy. I would never provide that data to a BUYER. He has no legitimate need for it, whereas a seller might want that record for piece of mind in the event ATF contacts him years later asking why a handgun he originally purchased was found at a crime scene. Some guys want no data exchanged at all, and I'm fine with that, but I'm usually willing to work with a seller who feels it will give him piece of mind.
Good God guys. BPTactical is running a BUSINESS in the firearms trade. You wanna buy/sell a gun thru him, it's going into his books one way or the other. As an individual it is a choice. The more info you can get from a buyer or seller, the safer you are via CYA. It's a choice- take yours and go to bed.
What does BPTactical have to do with anything?
He posted earlier that he wanted as much info as he could get while others were far opposite. Sorry if I sounded snippy.
Damn that's funny! [ROFL2]Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Luckydog
Good stuff Luckydog, that one actually made me laugh at work. I'm gonna use that one today to my boss. "Hey could you get this done?" ...."Sure sir, right after you pound some salt up your ass"Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Luckydog
[LOL]
I need to clarify a couple of points on this subject.
Yes I am a FFL holder.
I conduct no transfers and or RETAIL firearm sales.
The firearms I have sold/traded in FTF transactions are from my personal collection and as such are exempt from the encumbrances of firearms transferred under a FFL licensee.
What I require for paperwork on a FTF transaction is wholly by my choice. I have had the joyous experience of having to deal with an agency in a firearm trace that came back to me. The fact of having a BOS with the party that I had conducted the trade with made the process very simple when dealing with the agency. I had the parties name, DL # and address on the BOS and a date/timestamp on the BOS. I provided a copy of the BOS to the agency and 5 minutes later we were done, painless process and I was instantly absolved of the issue.
You think it would have been that simple without some form of documentation regarding the disposition of the firearm in question?
NOT!
Now if you enjoy answering questions to a LE agency regarding a firearm that traces back to you with no supporting documentation then you have a warped sense of enjoyment.
Given the litigious nature of our society not to mention the demonization of firearms in general in our society I feel you are wise to document as much as you can regarding the acquisition/disposition of a firearm especially if it is obtained by private party transaction.
Look at it this way-you purchase a used firearm from a dealer in a regular over the counter sale. You are automatically absolved of anything connected to that firearm prior to your purchase of said firearm by the BOS from the dealer.
You do not have that absolution on a firearm purchased from a private party without a BOS.
Do you want to have to deal with a detective when it is found that the firearm you purchased in a FTF last week is in fact a firearm that was stolen a year prior? With no BOS you are in a indefensible place. You are on the hook for possessing a stolen firearm. Now you get to pay an attorney to keep your ass outta the hoosgow.
BOS= cheap insurance
This is just my personal view on the subject and you are free to do as you please.